Can "rape" occur in SL?
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Aleister Montgomery
Minding the gap
Join date: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 846
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06-11-2007 17:40
From: Colette Meiji What you seem not to get is,
That even if she was stupid to leave her toon in that situation. Even if she could have avoided it entirely. Even if it should never have happend;
She still wasnt giving consent. It still wasnt her fault. It was the person who took advantage of her who is at fault.
Of course people shouldnt put themselves in risky situations, of course people should learn both from their mistakes and the mistakes of others.
But that doesnt mean that people who are victims are the ones who are wrong. No one is arguing that the guy in this case was acting like an *sshole, by taking photos of the scene and sending them to her. Calling it rape would be demeaning to RL rape victims, but it's clearly harrassment / griefing and undoubtely enough to AR him. What I don't accept though is that consent in SL is only and exclusively given by saying loud and clear "Yes, I want to have sex with you." Let me give you an example: One of my products is a display that "sells" residents as sex toys. They're wrapped up in shrink wrap, gagged, bound and (voluntarily) stay on the display as a human toy. In front of the display is a row of poseballs, that allows a potential "buyer" to grope and "test" the wrapped-up "sex doll". My customers installed these displays at a number of clubs and public dungeons. Not RP zones which would hand out notecards with a clear set of rules, just typical sex-themed places for the broad public. If a curious person uses such a display and stays there, it's a no-brainer that someone will hop onto the connected poseballs and "molest" her. That's what the display was built for; it unmistakably advertises the user as a sex toy. No one would ruin a submissive's roleplay by asking a helpless toy if she'd like to be groped; she's wrapped up and gagged, so she obviously can't speak, from an RP point of view. The very same could happen here: someone just "parks" their avatar on a sex doll display, without paying much attention to the text imprinted on it, goes afk, comes back and finds her avatar being "abused" by strangers. Did she give consent or not? Are the "abusers", who possibly only wanted to play along in order to give her a good time, offenders who are guilty of taking advantage of her? Before I read this thread, I'd have said it's absolutely clear that she gave her consent to be treated like a ware or a toy, by reading the inscription and then using the display. In other words, simply by getting onto a poseball. Does sitting on a poseball in a public place reserve all other poseballs in close proximity for the same avatar, because they could possibly interact with her poseball? Does everyone have to assume, no matter what purpose the poseball combination is made for, that the avatar who sits there might only want to take a sunbath?
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Cat Fratica
Miaow...
Join date: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 153
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All wrong!
06-11-2007 17:44
OF COURSE you can be 'raped' in SL!
Consider the following scenario - you choose to give yourself to someone in a communal sex area (many do) and to enable this consenting love act you take your place on that doggy style pink pose ball - but before your dozy partner takes up his position on the corresponding blue pose ball some other opportunist jumps in (probably a noob with a large orange thing attached to his groinal area) - then that is SL rape!
OK, you can stand up quickly and it might only last a second (not the full thirty seconds a real guy lasts) but it's still sexual congress without consent...
Cat x
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Elinah Iredell
Registered User
Join date: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 269
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06-11-2007 17:45
From: Bidelia Beaumont Here's a scenario that might be on target.
I am a newer Avatar and though I was apart of second life a while ago this is so different from that time there's so many scripts and such.
I was at the Newbie Island were tons of people congregate and we learn the rops together. I was standing having a chat with a few people when out of no where this jerk grabbed my avatar and began dry-humping it. I was completely shocked and I didn't know how to stop him and quite frankly It took me a few to get to my X out because he wasn't stoping for anything.
I exited Second Life but was afraid to re-enter for a while because I didn't know where the person came from and was worried he was still there.
I know no one can remove anything from the body of my avatar without consent and I also know that I can X out of any scenario that may arrise but newbies certenly can be assaulted even as I type I still can't figure out how to stop someone from doing that again.
just an FYI That is scary... what attachment does he have that does that? Elinah
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Aleister Montgomery
Minding the gap
Join date: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 846
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06-11-2007 17:54
From: Cat Fratica OK, you can stand up quickly and it might only last a second (not the full thirty seconds a real guy lasts) but it's still sexual congress without consent... Sexual congress or intercourse involves getting in contact with another person's genitals. A living, breathing human person. That's how the law defines it. By that definition, no sex at all is happening in SL, not to speak of rape. If one tries to establish that rape is happening here, we also have cases of murder in combat sims. As well as lots of cases of wantonly negligent behaviour, like unreasonably hazardous landscaping. I often fell into a river in sims where flying was disabled, couldn't get out and would have drowned - if it was real. I think that's the most important point in such discussions: nothing is real in SL.
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Chris Norse
Loud Arrogant Redneck
Join date: 1 Oct 2006
Posts: 5,735
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06-11-2007 17:58
From: Aleister Montgomery No one is arguing that the guy in this case was acting like an *sshole, by taking photos of the scene and sending them to her. Calling it rape would be demeaning to RL rape victims, but it's clearly harrassment / griefing and undoubtely enough to AR him. What I don't accept though is that consent in SL is only and exclusively given by saying loud and clear "Yes, I want to have sex with you." Let me give you an example:
One of my products is a display that "sells" residents as sex toys. They're wrapped up in shrink wrap, gagged, bound and (voluntarily) stay on the display as a human toy. In front of the display is a row of poseballs, that allows a potential "buyer" to grope and "test" the wrapped-up "sex doll". My customers installed these displays at a number of clubs and public dungeons. Not RP zones which would hand out notecards with a clear set of rules, just typical sex-themed places for the broad public. If a curious person uses such a display and stays there, it's a no-brainer that someone will hop onto the connected poseballs and "molest" her. That's what the display was built for; it unmistakably advertises the user as a sex toy. No one would ruin a submissive's roleplay by asking a helpless toy if she'd like to be groped; she's wrapped up and gagged, so she obviously can't speak, from an RP point of view.
The very same could happen here: someone just "parks" their avatar on a sex doll display, without paying much attention to the text imprinted on it, goes afk, comes back and finds her avatar being "abused" by strangers. Did she give consent or not? Are the "abusers", who possibly only wanted to play along in order to give her a good time, offenders who are guilty of taking advantage of her? Before I read this thread, I'd have said it's absolutely clear that she gave her consent to be treated like a ware or a toy, by reading the inscription and then using the display. In other words, simply by getting onto a poseball.
Does sitting on a poseball in a public place reserve all other poseballs in close proximity for the same avatar, because they could possibly interact with her poseball? Does everyone have to assume, no matter what purpose the poseball combination is made for, that the avatar who sits there might only want to take a sunbath? I seriously doubt anyone has ever sat on one of your sex doll machines not knowing what they would be in for, or at least hoping for what they soon would be in for. But yes, I would send an IM OOC asking if she wanted to play. For all I know she might be trying to tp her boyfriend in for some kinky fun.
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Elinah Iredell
Registered User
Join date: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 269
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06-11-2007 17:59
From: Lorelei Patel FFS, I have been, and I find comparisons of actual rape to pixels on a screen absurd. Worse than that, actually. Loreliei I was not talking about pixel rape I was talking about pornographic magazines and movies of real people.... and the harm it does to woman in society. Elinah
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Fiona Branagh
... or her equivalent.
Join date: 1 Feb 2007
Posts: 156
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06-11-2007 18:40
Actually, my explanation about intensive roleplay venues was expressly in response to the assertion that it was strange how people complain about breaking immersion while feeling free to routinely break their own immersion with OOC chat about movies and computers.
Very specifically, I was stating that most people I'm aware of that care about RP immersion do not chat about computers and movies in the RP environment at all. Certainly, since I started online RPing back in the early 90's, anyone who did was subject to ostracizing and banishment.
My explanation was not intended to be turned into a comment about the overall discussion of rape, cyber rape, and whether or not everyone in every situation was in the midst of some kind of RP immersion experience or whether or not they SHOULD be. It merely addressed that single point that had been made, and therefore, will not be stretched by me to relate to anything else whatsoever.
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Strife Onizuka
Moonchild
Join date: 3 Mar 2004
Posts: 5,887
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06-11-2007 21:15
This is off-topic for the forums.
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Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river. - Cyril Connolly
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