lindens latest blog: dob a neighbour

Hey stop dissing us Nekos!!! Oh meow - sorry Nemos - mmmm what are they???

Start with the morality police first.

hi, wow, i missed this thread until today! and i'm very, very behind in reading. if i mention things already mentioned, just spank me. unless you're offended by that sort of thing

the Chairman of the Board of Linden Labs is Mitch Kapor. Mitch Kapor is the *founder* of the Electronic Frontier Foundation - a large and reputable organization that fights for "civil liberties in cyberspace." IMO, this guy doesn't know what Daniel Linden, or other Lindens, are posting to the blog and claiming as applicable policy (without adding them to the TOS).

i DO NOT advocate spamming Mr. Kapor in any way! however, his email is publicly available to those who read his Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitch_Kapor), who have a Wikipedia account and are signed into it, and email him through that page. this means you can form a PETITION with signatures, and then email the link/text to Mr. Kapor.

IMO, the best route is to go straight to the top. i might be wrong, so spank me

My moral high horse isn't exactly feeling its oats. For one thing, to reiterate, I personally could not possibly care less what kind of pixel sex I might encounter anywhere on the grid. On the other hand, I'd have no interest in SL if the grid were nothing but sex. The point I was trying to make is that the Lindens have a legitimate business reason to be sure the grid is a place people might want to be, which means in part not being a place that's just an embarrassment, nor a tedious monoculture of chat-spamming genitals. But is that a risk, particularly w.r.t. sex? So I was genuinely asking if there are any kind of statistics or even subjective impressions of whether in-world pornography is becoming more or less prevalent as SL grows and matures.

Although, to answer your question directly, as hypocritical as this sounds, yeah, I'll climb up on the decrepit old nag and ride into the first KKK sim, guns blazing. (Wouldn't you?)

No, but then I believe bad ideas should be fought with good ideas and kept in the open. Not censored and pushed underground, there to fester and grow into rot.

The way to stop this "Community Standards" crap is for SL to harness the power of the gray. Give people a tool that will allow them to gray out any sign, any image -- even put in gray blocks as a replacement for any nude gray bodies that may be hanging about. Let the community of SL, in any over-arching sense, simply be the community of those who reject graying out any aspect of life, who believe that, at its best, SL should bear a one-on-one relationship of freedom with the human imagination.

If we are a community, then let the community demand this. The only people who could possibly be against it are those who simply wish to control a person in some fashion (as opposed to simply controlling content) or who wish to harness his eyeballs for the sake of advertising. What do either of these have to do with true community?

Give people the power to define their own standards, their own communities. Isn't this supposed to be the real genius behind SL?

I would simply remind Linden Labs of its own tag-line for Second Life, which reads

YOUR WORLD. YOUR IMAGINATION.

Actually, I think "hate" groups are already disallowed. However, to answer your question I would not. Not because I agree with their philosophy, I greatly oppose that as they represent the opposite of what I believe. This is the thing with freedoms though, you can't call yourself an advocate of freedom if you would allow yourself something and someone else not. I believe in the KKK's right to free speech just as I do anybody else. I believe that one person's (or group's) freedom ends however when they violate someone else's. What does that mean? Well, in the given example of the KKK, they have the right to wave their flags, give their speeches and say how much they hate the people they hate. They do not, however, have the right to grab a person of whom they hate and beat them as that infringes on someone else's rights. In the United States, an opposing group can arrange a counter rally and/or legally protest the KKK if they like. No one is forced go go and listen to them either.

If you believe in true freedom you have to take the good and the bad that comes with it. If you want society to have freedom of speech, you best be prepared to hear something you may not like.

Agreed. Situations like these are cases where I actually agree with the ACLU. The right not to listen to offensive ideas, can not abrogate someone else's right to speak them. As long as that speech does not lead to any harmful or illegal act;ie Incitement to Riot. Even the tired Fire in a Crowded Theatre analogy. It's not the uttering of the words, but the reaction. If no one does anything after someone yells fire you have no issue. but generally when fire is yelled, a panic ensues. That's where the problem is. If a group such as the KKK,The Nazis or such wanted to open a private sim to meet and try to further their agenda, I personally don't care. I would avoid them just as I avoid the corporate Sims. You censor words, and you are censoring thought. And that is something I truly find Broadly Offensive.

So we end up then with adult and non-adult. same distinction, different names. so I am still going to be in a situation, where what is allowed.

The blanket "your report has been resolved" with no reason given if it is dissallowed.

If only it said " not enough info", "not enough people have reported the same incident", "we don't believe you", "we don't get involved in personal affairs", or just plain "sorry that is allowed" would certainly help in giving guidlines of what is acceptable. All these are clear and non-specific in detail but would give a good indication.

Yes, pretty much. Incitement to riot is a seperate issue I think. But for the same reason I believe erotic material should be available to consenting adults the KKK can speak their hate. I am also free to say that I hate them and why. Its the point where someone invades the rights of others is where the line is crossed. I may be able to say I hate a KKK member, but once I punch him in the nose because I don't like what he is saying then I have violated their rights just the same if he were to do that to me.

Not quite

Becuase Adult flagged parcels will automatically BAN all unverified accounts.

So Collette, if I own land in an Adult Region (but not have kinky stuff going on) do I get banned from my own land?? This is what I still find confusing.
And I CANT use passport/Social Insurance Number/Driver's License for confirmation of my age. That information is restricted for my REAL work.

An Adult parcel will only be adult if you flag it as such. Once flagged no one can be on it that isnt verified.

Currently (meaning soon to be) there are supposed to be three distinctions

PG / Mature and Adult.

But Dan L in the video made clear he thinks PG and Mature should go away, and only adult content should have restricted access.

He specifically mentions 13+ on the content description (since thats the internet min age for chatting he mentions the US rule by acronym)

So that by defualt means we will get what we now call PG and everything else will eventually be adult - If Dan gets his way. And by his tone it sure sounded like he expected things to go his way.

This also means an eventual end to the teen grid , which he didnt like either he thinks they should be on the main grid.

Thanks Colette for answer. I am getting so confused I am forgetting my own REAL age. Lol!
I really DON'T like the idea of sharing my SL world with a bunch of kids and teens. Just call me a bitch - but I deal with enough of them in the REAL world - I don't want them in my fantasies.
They should be playing outside in the sunshine.

By your choice, or by your work?

Broccoli

this sounds like circular logic to me. we already have pg and mature, so he is pushing for a major revamp that would see... pg and adult? isnt this what we already have?

cant answer for jig, but in my case its dictated by australian law. legally the documents arent even mine, they are property of the commonwealth.

Lol! None of YOUR business!

Actually Nina is also correct. Some of us live in countries that restrict us from granting such information. I am not sure of U.S. law BUT for some of us the issuing of such information would (or could) be construed as a criminal offense. I simply will not take that chance. BUT I have found that many people in SL dont seem to realise that we are NOT all American citizens or members of Euro countries. Many of which seem to have problems establishing security for some reason ...

Youd understand better if you heard him say it.

Basically - in the video -

He thinks PG and Mature shoudlnt be there they are a "legacy system".

Basically he thinks all land should be Age 13+ safe, everywhere on the grid. Whith Teens freely mingling.

THEN in some parts of the grid, the parcels people have flagged Adult it would be 18+, Age verified only.

He very clearly says this on the video.

There would be no Mature Land or Pg land. All land would be the same unless you Choose to label your content as Adult due to not being 13+ age appropriate.

Community Pressure would be used to keep people following the guidelines (this whole keep us safe idea from the blog fits here).

Basically his thinking seems to be like the regular Internet. Its all sort of PG except site that are Adult Material. The Adult Material is regulated to an extent.

Fine, just trying to see whether there was actually some restriction imposed by your country's laws, or whether you were just being one of the many people whining about giving out information and are only restricted by your choice.

Me, I won't be giving out the information, but that's by choice as I don't participate in any activities or visit any places that I'll suddenly find myself restricted from going.

Broccoli

Okay - to be fair to you Broc - My employment (and privacy) may be seriously compromised by releasing such information.

Sort of
Not that anyone *really* needs to be told, but for the exercise:-
We have NOW (in theory) PG land and Mature land.
PG land can not have adult content. Content that is adult must be restricted to Mature land.
We have in the community standards an implication that adult content is offensive.

With me so far?

Without the benefit of clarification from LL, it appears that we will have
- PG as before
- Mature as non-adult (i.e. PG) content in Mature land
- Adult as Mature land that is declared to have adult content.


Everything will be OK as long as people realise the difference between adult and Adult. People will have to be mature about this.
In order to minimise confusion, sentences beginning with the word 'adult' should be avoided, and if necessary, banned outright.

Watch the video - It sounds like the plan you have outlined is just a temporary situation.

What happens to those of us who are "mature" but completely and utterly irresponsible??
errr .. smile (I think)