Second Life Forums Archive - lindens latest blog: dob a neighbour

errUh Oh

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Join date: 1 Mar 2007

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06-03-2007 19:06

From: CobaltBlue Mill

It's interesting that someone would be bothered by a positive comment to their posting. Basically, what I took your post as was a comment about people continuing to post comments regarding the Daniel Linden blog entry, but that no one was really reading them.

My comment meant that I realize that few read them, but it's an issue I feel strongly about, so would continue posting on the topic.

I hope this cleared the matter up.

ohhhh ok i get it no no i wasnt bothered at all lol i literally couldnt understand what you were expressing. Thank you for the clarification

CobaltBlue Mill

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06-03-2007 19:08

From: errUh Oh

ohhhh ok i get it no no i wasnt bothered at all lol i literally couldnt understand what you were expressing. Thank you for the clarification

You're very welcome.

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broadly offensive

dain Woodget

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Lindens are now dictating their morality to their citizens

06-03-2007 20:25

I know plenty of people in SL who regard BDSM as an integral part of their second lives. I have a message for the Lindens...STOP TREATING US LIKE CHILDREN AND LET US LIVE OUR OWN SECOND LIVES WITHOUT YOUR BULLSH*T MORALITY AND COMMUNITY STANDARDS. THE BDSM COMMUNITY IS ONE OF THE LARGEST IN SL!!!

Leraje Xevious

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Abuse Reports to make SL "Safe"

06-03-2007 20:56

So with all the reporting done about the abuses...

I wonder what LL would think about an Abuse Report against them for infringing on Liberty?

I think that it is an abuse to make a policy that would effectively start an anarchistic civil war with small groups turning against other small groups. I think it is an abuse to effectively incite guerrilla warfare and arming everyone with a pen with which to fire as many shots as you can make your fingers pump out in a minute. I think it is also an abuse that long time standing bugs are continually forgotten. Especially when the new bug tracking website came out and I was asked to "verify this is still occurring" in regards to things that had been so old, and still not resolved, that I had forgotten how I recreated them in the first place.

Congratulations, LL. You have successfully brought out Big Brother, added to your already backed up workload in dealing with the abuse reports, and alienated several groups that usually are first-adopters of new technologies. All while trying to not plug the leaks in the boat and instead, trying to distract us from the incoming flooding water by a nice new shiny thing. I bet aiming that shot-to-your-own-foot took many meetings to get aligned just right. Hope you can deal with the bleeding pain it is going to cause... unless you call the medics and reverse that decision. (it's all figurative language, just in case some cannot make that leap into cynicism/sarcasm)

Sin Poitier

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06-03-2007 21:21

OK....so there is the Teen Grid, and the other is the Second Teen Grid now...
so, where is the Adult Grid so i can join it??

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Broken Xeno

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06-03-2007 21:22

From: Sin Poitier

OK....so there is the Teen Grid, and the other is the Second Teen Grid now...
so, where is the Adult Grid so i can join it??

Here's what you do; You turn off the monitor and go out the door. There's the adult grid.

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Sin Poitier

RL is calling

Join date: 5 Mar 2007

Posts: 52

06-03-2007 21:24

OK....so there is the Teen Grid, and the other is the Second Teen Grid now...
so, where is the Adult Grid so i can join it??

Anyway..now i can make some "arrangements" to get some enemies out of SL...great idea!! Accuse them of anything....

PS: will there be some sanctioning to ppl that accuse someone falsely?

_____________________

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Aleister Montgomery

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06-03-2007 21:33

From: Sin Poitier

OK....so there is the Teen Grid, and the other is the Second Teen Grid now...
so, where is the Adult Grid so i can join it??

The adult grid is called Sociolotron.

Aleister Montgomery

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Posts: 846

06-03-2007 21:36

From: Broken Xeno

Here's what you do; You turn off the monitor and go out the door. There's the adult grid.

People can sign up here: http://www.getafirstlife.com/

Tegg Bode

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Join date: 12 Jan 2007

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06-03-2007 21:38

From: Aleister Montgomery

The adult grid is called Sociolotron.

Trouble is then the Adult grid isn't good for anything except sex then, at least till Sociotron2 is released.

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Naomi Hanson

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06-03-2007 21:42

Just to point out one little factoide about the Linden Labs:

Before and during the release of the movie "300" Linden Labs built an entire sim dedicated to the promotion of said film. In the movie it shows artistically and graphically an acient battle. There is a lot of violence, dismemberment, blood, beheading and so forth. (awesome film by the way, not for the graphic violence but the dialog and artistic workings)

So tell me Linden Labs, are you only now against graphic violence since your contract with the film producers is up and you are no longer profiting from promoting said violence?

Oh yes and theres a rape scene in that movie too...

Love how hypocrytical you are LL.

Naomi

Aleister Montgomery

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06-03-2007 23:02

From: Tegg Bode

Trouble is then the Adult grid isn't good for anything except sex then, at least till Sociotron2 is released.

That's true. That's why I left Socio's adult grid and came to the odd mixture LL calls an adult grid, which even seemed to be an adult place where common sense ruled at that time.

Aleister Montgomery

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06-03-2007 23:05

From: Naomi Hanson

Just to point out one little factoide about the Linden Labs:

Before and during the release of the movie "300" Linden Labs built an entire sim dedicated to the promotion of said film. In the movie it shows artistically and graphically an acient battle. There is a lot of violence, dismemberment, blood, beheading and so forth. (awesome film by the way, not for the graphic violence but the dialog and artistic workings)

So tell me Linden Labs, are you only now against graphic violence since your contract with the film producers is up and you are no longer profiting from promoting said violence?

Oh yes and theres a rape scene in that movie too...

Love how hypocrytical you are LL.

Naomi

Great point. Personally, I found the movie 300 broadly offensive. Not because of the violence, but the barely hidden political message. Nonetheless I wouldn't ever oppose any content in SL, as long as it stays in dedicated areas.

Tegg Bode

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06-03-2007 23:13

From: Aleister Montgomery

Great point. Personally, I found the movie 300 broadly offensive. Not because of the violence, but the barely hidden political message.

Yep I can't believe the Liberal party would sink to such depths just to get Joh Bjekepeterson back into Queensland Premiers seat........

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Naomi Hanson

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06-03-2007 23:16

Exactly i dont oppose any content within second life.

I do on the otherhand oppose people bringing in real life imagry of those things listed in that blog entry. I fully agree with getting rid of those things all through out SL. There is no place for it no matter what.

What most people fail to realise is that though someone may enjoy role playing a rape scene using digital means like second life, does NOT mean that they in anyway shape or form condone real life incidents of it.

Same can be said about graphic violence and so forth. You can not say that every person that has ever played a violent video game is going to go on a murderous rampage.

Again i say i oppose no content in second life. So long as they keep to their own you know?

I have the choice not to go to a violent sim. The choice not to participate in anything i choose not to participate or see. If someone brings something i dont like to my sim i can boot them if talking to them doesnt work.

Use the tools that you have been given to not see the "offensive" material you choose to see.

Naomi Hanson

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Posts: 13

06-04-2007 00:03

Oh yes one more thing to shove into LL's face:

"...violence including rape, real-life images, avatar portrayals, and other depictions of extreme or graphic violence, and other broadly offensive content are never allowed or tolerated within Second Life..." which as everyone has picked apart already goes on to reference the Community Standards.

which i'll take a small part of right now and show you:

"... Content, communication, or behavior which involves intense language or expletives, nudity or sexual content, the depiction of sex or violence, or anything else broadly offensive must be contained within private land in areas rated Mature (M)."

Hmm... contradict much?

Love,
Naomi

Hermine Zabelin

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06-04-2007 00:35

It's sad, very sad, to realise that there will always be people willing to limit other people's imagination. SL is all about pixels, all about what's going on in people's head, but some people are scared about peoples' fantasies.

As for attacking bdsm specifically, well, i think these people should start by understanding and being comfortable with their own sexuality before judging what's going on between 2 (or more) *consenting* adults--sl or rl.

Hermine

Daisy Rimbaud

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06-04-2007 00:59

It appears that LL are running round in a panic and not thinking things through.

If the idea was to have SL a virtual Disney World, it should have been that from the start. The fact is, that up until now SL has been a haven of toleration and open-mindedness, and that's what we are used to and expect. Trying to change the direction of SL to something heavily censored is like trying to turn the proverbial supertanker.

The freedom of expression that SL has hitherto permitted has been one its outstanding virtues. LL would do far better to stick to its original policy and see it through. It just requires a bit of nerve.

Broccoli Curry

I am my alt's alt's alt.

Join date: 13 Jun 2006

Posts: 1,660

06-04-2007 01:27

I was actually invited by someone on this forum, following these debates, to visit their BDSM training area in-world last night, which I accepted.

The people there were perfectly pleasant, and the only stuff that could really be classed as "objectionable" was going on in an enclosed space, several doors and rooms away from the "public area" of landing spot. We did, however, accidently walk in on something "in progress" but that's just an accident which I don't blame the landowner for. I didn't actually feel offended by it because I fully expected to find things going on there, and as it was my choice to accept their offer I was not really in a position to file an AR (if it had been reportable in the first place).

The property name, description, and adult tag should have given anyone more than enough information as to what goes on there, and for them to be able to avoid going there if they so chose - or teleport out.

It was all very pleasant - and in fact very well designed and decorated - and if it wasn't for the fact that a lot of people were kneeling and using "Sir" and "Mistress" in conversation, it might almost have just been a telehub or any other private home.

There was plenty of information available about the nature of the area, although I made a few little suggestions which may be taken on board for ways to ensure that people arriving are left in no doubt as to what they are letting themselves in for.

But this brings me back to the original point I was trying to make... with proper categorisation, verification, responsibility on the part of the landowner to ensure their descriptions are not misleading and responsibility on the part of the player to ensure they are not putting themselves into areas they may find objectionable, then there's no reason why places such as this cannot peacefully coexist.

Broccoli

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Sonja Petrov

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LL, please don´t overact

06-04-2007 01:37

LL: PLEASE don´t averact.

I read about the troubles you had (minor gambling, age-playing clubs...).
I can understand that you are not interrested to be forced to go to police or FBI etc..
But do you really think that´s the correct way ?

If someone should ever claim again she/he is got protracted or abused without their
consent, please ask them why they don´t log out .. ? Maybe to have a reason to complaint ... or, what is more likely, the whole story is totally imaginary.

I played an other adult online game (name used before in the thread). There I GOT protracted, abused and killed. That was not what I liked (1 of the main reason I joined SL). In SL a simple logout and "start at my home" solves the problem.

The minor-problem:
You found a good way to handle that I think, the age verification. Boost that one.
Please don´t set more and more new rules and controll instruments, before finishing
existing one. Make a deadline for the age verification and force everyone out who is not interrested in the verification, but please don´t set more and more rules without any
reall reason.

(P.S. for all people who reads this: sorry for my "syntax errors", I´m no native englishspeaker

)

Sharon Mitra

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Join date: 30 Jul 2006

Posts: 1

06-04-2007 03:27

bdsm is with people who wanted it .. there is no force collared girls .. there is no forced stuuf in sl ... people who are into bdsm are in bdsm because they enjoy it !!!

it's a spirit based on respect ... so please linden respect theim too and we will repesct you ( we still do i think)

keep bdsm alive

Gregor Dabu

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Join date: 12 Jan 2007

Posts: 1

06-04-2007 04:55

SL needs tolerance, not restrictions. Just like in real life.

There is room for everyone. No witch hunts please.

Let consenting adults do what they wish as long as they do not interfere with others that do not wish to participate.

Regards,

Sling Trebuchet

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Posts: 4,548

Who's imagination of what?

06-04-2007 07:12

From: Broccoli Curry

I was actually invited by someone on this forum, following these debates, to visit their BDSM training area in-world last night, which I accepted.

The people there were perfectly pleasant, and the only stuff that could really be classed as "objectionable" was going on in an enclosed space, several doors and rooms away from the "public area" of landing spot. We did, however, accidently walk in on something "in progress" but that's just an accident which I don't blame the landowner for. I didn't actually feel offended by it because I fully expected to find things going on there, and as it was my choice to accept their offer I was not really in a position to file an AR (if it had been reportable in the first place).

The property name, description, and adult tag should have given anyone more than enough information as to what goes on there, and for them to be able to avoid going there if they so chose - or teleport out.

It was all very pleasant - and in fact very well designed and decorated - and if it wasn't for the fact that a lot of people were kneeling and using "Sir" and "Mistress" in conversation, it might almost have just been a telehub or any other private home.

There was plenty of information available about the nature of the area, although I made a few little suggestions which may be taken on board for ways to ensure that people arriving are left in no doubt as to what they are letting themselves in for.

But this brings me back to the original point I was trying to make... with proper categorisation, verification, responsibility on the part of the landowner to ensure their descriptions are not misleading and responsibility on the part of the player to ensure they are not putting themselves into areas they may find objectionable, then there's no reason why places such as this cannot peacefully coexist.

Broccoli

I'm not going to hit Broccoli --- too much

--- over the head with the observation that the point that her original 'original' point was that she wanted SL that was free of all of 'that stuff'.

I celebrate with her this insight.

Maybe Broccoli's post combined with her earliest ones illustrates that the problem with much of the dialogue of the deaf that has been going on in these threads is this:-

----------> Your World, Their Imagination <---------

(Their imagination of what your world is)

Broccoli Curry

I am my alt's alt's alt.

Join date: 13 Jun 2006

Posts: 1,660

06-04-2007 07:18

From: Sling Trebuchet

I'm not going to hit Broccoli --- too much

--- over the head with the observation that the point that her original 'original' point was that she wanted SL that was free of all of 'that stuff'.

Using the verification/access restrictions that I outlined, I believe that's a reasonable compromise as to allowing "that stuff" to still exist, without "that stuff" getting in the way of those that don't want to see "it".

The only problem then remains of what is considered permitted and not - like the original 'child porn' issue and the differentiation in US law between 'actual' and 'simulated' but not in many other countries of the world.

That might be a tough call for Linden Lab to make, but as I've stated before... they decide that, not us.

Broccoli

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Sling Trebuchet

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06-04-2007 07:43

From: Broccoli Curry

Using the verification/access restrictions that I outlined, I believe that's a reasonable compromise as to allowing "that stuff" to still exist, without "that stuff" getting in the way of those that don't want to see "it".i

Right!
But what you "outlined" is what already exists in the Community Standards.

Depiction or simulation of sex with children is something that very few would support. I believe that it would *very* easily fit under a grey "broadly offensive" category, regardless of particular legal interpretations that might exist in various RL jurisdictions. I really do not believe that prohibition of such can justifiably seen as the thin end of a wedge.

However, there has been what is either a dishonesty or lack of intellectual rigour in some postings by various people - i.e.the lumping-in of child sex with completely different activities in order to pursue a 'moral' agenda.

lindens latest blog: dob a neighbour
errUh Oh Registered User Join date: 1 Mar 2007 Posts: 233	06-03-2007 19:06 From: CobaltBlue Mill It's interesting that someone would be bothered by a positive comment to their posting. Basically, what I took your post as was a comment about people continuing to post comments regarding the Daniel Linden blog entry, but that no one was really reading them. My comment meant that I realize that few read them, but it's an issue I feel strongly about, so would continue posting on the topic. I hope this cleared the matter up. ohhhh ok i get it no no i wasnt bothered at all lol i literally couldnt understand what you were expressing. Thank you for the clarification
CobaltBlue Mill Registered User Join date: 19 Apr 2006 Posts: 87	06-03-2007 19:08 From: errUh Oh ohhhh ok i get it no no i wasnt bothered at all lol i literally couldnt understand what you were expressing. Thank you for the clarification You're very welcome. _____________________ broadly offensive
dain Woodget Registered User Join date: 19 Apr 2007 Posts: 1	Lindens are now dictating their morality to their citizens 06-03-2007 20:25 I know plenty of people in SL who regard BDSM as an integral part of their second lives. I have a message for the Lindens...STOP TREATING US LIKE CHILDREN AND LET US LIVE OUR OWN SECOND LIVES WITHOUT YOUR BULLSH*T MORALITY AND COMMUNITY STANDARDS. THE BDSM COMMUNITY IS ONE OF THE LARGEST IN SL!!!
Leraje Xevious Registered User Join date: 3 Jun 2004 Posts: 1	Abuse Reports to make SL "Safe" 06-03-2007 20:56 So with all the reporting done about the abuses... I wonder what LL would think about an Abuse Report against them for infringing on Liberty? I think that it is an abuse to make a policy that would effectively start an anarchistic civil war with small groups turning against other small groups. I think it is an abuse to effectively incite guerrilla warfare and arming everyone with a pen with which to fire as many shots as you can make your fingers pump out in a minute. I think it is also an abuse that long time standing bugs are continually forgotten. Especially when the new bug tracking website came out and I was asked to "verify this is still occurring" in regards to things that had been so old, and still not resolved, that I had forgotten how I recreated them in the first place. Congratulations, LL. You have successfully brought out Big Brother, added to your already backed up workload in dealing with the abuse reports, and alienated several groups that usually are first-adopters of new technologies. All while trying to not plug the leaks in the boat and instead, trying to distract us from the incoming flooding water by a nice new shiny thing. I bet aiming that shot-to-your-own-foot took many meetings to get aligned just right. Hope you can deal with the bleeding pain it is going to cause... unless you call the medics and reverse that decision. (it's all figurative language, just in case some cannot make that leap into cynicism/sarcasm)
Sin Poitier RL is calling Join date: 5 Mar 2007 Posts: 52	06-03-2007 21:21 OK....so there is the Teen Grid, and the other is the Second Teen Grid now... so, where is the Adult Grid so i can join it?? _____________________ Me? No, i'm just part of your imagination. C.I.G. CEO Jefe de "Chilenos en SL"
Broken Xeno ~Fething Alt~ Join date: 9 Mar 2007 Posts: 632	06-03-2007 21:22 From: Sin Poitier OK....so there is the Teen Grid, and the other is the Second Teen Grid now... so, where is the Adult Grid so i can join it?? Here's what you do; You turn off the monitor and go out the door. There's the adult grid. _____________________
Sin Poitier RL is calling Join date: 5 Mar 2007 Posts: 52	06-03-2007 21:24 OK....so there is the Teen Grid, and the other is the Second Teen Grid now... so, where is the Adult Grid so i can join it?? Anyway..now i can make some "arrangements" to get some enemies out of SL...great idea!! Accuse them of anything.... PS: will there be some sanctioning to ppl that accuse someone falsely? _____________________ Me? No, i'm just part of your imagination. C.I.G. CEO Jefe de "Chilenos en SL"
Aleister Montgomery Minding the gap Join date: 30 Apr 2006 Posts: 846	06-03-2007 21:33 From: Sin Poitier OK....so there is the Teen Grid, and the other is the Second Teen Grid now... so, where is the Adult Grid so i can join it?? The adult grid is called Sociolotron.
Aleister Montgomery Minding the gap Join date: 30 Apr 2006 Posts: 846	06-03-2007 21:36 From: Broken Xeno Here's what you do; You turn off the monitor and go out the door. There's the adult grid. People can sign up here: http://www.getafirstlife.com/
Tegg Bode FrootLoop Roo Overlord Join date: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 5,707	06-03-2007 21:38 From: Aleister Montgomery The adult grid is called Sociolotron. Trouble is then the Adult grid isn't good for anything except sex then, at least till Sociotron2 is released. _____________________ Level 38 Builder [Roo Clan] Free Waterside & Roadside Vehicle Rez Platform, Desire (88, 17, 107) Avatars & Roadside Seaview shops and vendorspace for rent, $2.00/prim/week, Desire (175,48,107)
Naomi Hanson Registered User Join date: 1 Jun 2007 Posts: 13	06-03-2007 21:42 Just to point out one little factoide about the Linden Labs: Before and during the release of the movie "300" Linden Labs built an entire sim dedicated to the promotion of said film. In the movie it shows artistically and graphically an acient battle. There is a lot of violence, dismemberment, blood, beheading and so forth. (awesome film by the way, not for the graphic violence but the dialog and artistic workings) So tell me Linden Labs, are you only now against graphic violence since your contract with the film producers is up and you are no longer profiting from promoting said violence? Oh yes and theres a rape scene in that movie too... Love how hypocrytical you are LL. Naomi
Aleister Montgomery Minding the gap Join date: 30 Apr 2006 Posts: 846	06-03-2007 23:02 From: Tegg Bode Trouble is then the Adult grid isn't good for anything except sex then, at least till Sociotron2 is released. That's true. That's why I left Socio's adult grid and came to the odd mixture LL calls an adult grid, which even seemed to be an adult place where common sense ruled at that time.
Aleister Montgomery Minding the gap Join date: 30 Apr 2006 Posts: 846	06-03-2007 23:05 From: Naomi Hanson Just to point out one little factoide about the Linden Labs: Before and during the release of the movie "300" Linden Labs built an entire sim dedicated to the promotion of said film. In the movie it shows artistically and graphically an acient battle. There is a lot of violence, dismemberment, blood, beheading and so forth. (awesome film by the way, not for the graphic violence but the dialog and artistic workings) So tell me Linden Labs, are you only now against graphic violence since your contract with the film producers is up and you are no longer profiting from promoting said violence? Oh yes and theres a rape scene in that movie too... Love how hypocrytical you are LL. Naomi Great point. Personally, I found the movie 300 broadly offensive. Not because of the violence, but the barely hidden political message. Nonetheless I wouldn't ever oppose any content in SL, as long as it stays in dedicated areas.
Tegg Bode FrootLoop Roo Overlord Join date: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 5,707	06-03-2007 23:13 From: Aleister Montgomery Great point. Personally, I found the movie 300 broadly offensive. Not because of the violence, but the barely hidden political message. Yep I can't believe the Liberal party would sink to such depths just to get Joh Bjekepeterson back into Queensland Premiers seat........ _____________________ Level 38 Builder [Roo Clan] Free Waterside & Roadside Vehicle Rez Platform, Desire (88, 17, 107) Avatars & Roadside Seaview shops and vendorspace for rent, $2.00/prim/week, Desire (175,48,107)
Naomi Hanson Registered User Join date: 1 Jun 2007 Posts: 13	06-03-2007 23:16 Exactly i dont oppose any content within second life. I do on the otherhand oppose people bringing in real life imagry of those things listed in that blog entry. I fully agree with getting rid of those things all through out SL. There is no place for it no matter what. What most people fail to realise is that though someone may enjoy role playing a rape scene using digital means like second life, does NOT mean that they in anyway shape or form condone real life incidents of it. Same can be said about graphic violence and so forth. You can not say that every person that has ever played a violent video game is going to go on a murderous rampage. Again i say i oppose no content in second life. So long as they keep to their own you know? I have the choice not to go to a violent sim. The choice not to participate in anything i choose not to participate or see. If someone brings something i dont like to my sim i can boot them if talking to them doesnt work. Use the tools that you have been given to not see the "offensive" material you choose to see.
Naomi Hanson Registered User Join date: 1 Jun 2007 Posts: 13	06-04-2007 00:03 Oh yes one more thing to shove into LL's face: "...violence including rape, real-life images, avatar portrayals, and other depictions of extreme or graphic violence, and other broadly offensive content are never allowed or tolerated within Second Life..." which as everyone has picked apart already goes on to reference the Community Standards. which i'll take a small part of right now and show you: "... Content, communication, or behavior which involves intense language or expletives, nudity or sexual content, the depiction of sex or violence, or anything else broadly offensive must be contained within private land in areas rated Mature (M)." Hmm... contradict much? Love, Naomi
Hermine Zabelin Registered User Join date: 15 Mar 2007 Posts: 1	06-04-2007 00:35 It's sad, very sad, to realise that there will always be people willing to limit other people's imagination. SL is all about pixels, all about what's going on in people's head, but some people are scared about peoples' fantasies. As for attacking bdsm specifically, well, i think these people should start by understanding and being comfortable with their own sexuality before judging what's going on between 2 (or more) consenting adults--sl or rl. Hermine
Daisy Rimbaud Registered User Join date: 12 Oct 2006 Posts: 764	06-04-2007 00:59 It appears that LL are running round in a panic and not thinking things through. If the idea was to have SL a virtual Disney World, it should have been that from the start. The fact is, that up until now SL has been a haven of toleration and open-mindedness, and that's what we are used to and expect. Trying to change the direction of SL to something heavily censored is like trying to turn the proverbial supertanker. The freedom of expression that SL has hitherto permitted has been one its outstanding virtues. LL would do far better to stick to its original policy and see it through. It just requires a bit of nerve.
Broccoli Curry I am my alt's alt's alt. Join date: 13 Jun 2006 Posts: 1,660	06-04-2007 01:27 I was actually invited by someone on this forum, following these debates, to visit their BDSM training area in-world last night, which I accepted. The people there were perfectly pleasant, and the only stuff that could really be classed as "objectionable" was going on in an enclosed space, several doors and rooms away from the "public area" of landing spot. We did, however, accidently walk in on something "in progress" but that's just an accident which I don't blame the landowner for. I didn't actually feel offended by it because I fully expected to find things going on there, and as it was my choice to accept their offer I was not really in a position to file an AR (if it had been reportable in the first place). The property name, description, and adult tag should have given anyone more than enough information as to what goes on there, and for them to be able to avoid going there if they so chose - or teleport out. It was all very pleasant - and in fact very well designed and decorated - and if it wasn't for the fact that a lot of people were kneeling and using "Sir" and "Mistress" in conversation, it might almost have just been a telehub or any other private home. There was plenty of information available about the nature of the area, although I made a few little suggestions which may be taken on board for ways to ensure that people arriving are left in no doubt as to what they are letting themselves in for. But this brings me back to the original point I was trying to make... with proper categorisation, verification, responsibility on the part of the landowner to ensure their descriptions are not misleading and responsibility on the part of the player to ensure they are not putting themselves into areas they may find objectionable, then there's no reason why places such as this cannot peacefully coexist. Broccoli _____________________ ~ This space has been abandoned as I can no longer afford it.
Sonja Petrov Registered User Join date: 3 Apr 2007 Posts: 1	LL, please don´t overact 06-04-2007 01:37 LL: PLEASE don´t averact. I read about the troubles you had (minor gambling, age-playing clubs...). I can understand that you are not interrested to be forced to go to police or FBI etc.. But do you really think that´s the correct way ? If someone should ever claim again she/he is got protracted or abused without their consent, please ask them why they don´t log out .. ? Maybe to have a reason to complaint ... or, what is more likely, the whole story is totally imaginary. I played an other adult online game (name used before in the thread). There I GOT protracted, abused and killed. That was not what I liked (1 of the main reason I joined SL). In SL a simple logout and "start at my home" solves the problem. The minor-problem: You found a good way to handle that I think, the age verification. Boost that one. Please don´t set more and more new rules and controll instruments, before finishing existing one. Make a deadline for the age verification and force everyone out who is not interrested in the verification, but please don´t set more and more rules without any reall reason. (P.S. for all people who reads this: sorry for my "syntax errors", I´m no native englishspeaker )
Sharon Mitra Registered User Join date: 30 Jul 2006 Posts: 1	06-04-2007 03:27 bdsm is with people who wanted it .. there is no force collared girls .. there is no forced stuuf in sl ... people who are into bdsm are in bdsm because they enjoy it !!! it's a spirit based on respect ... so please linden respect theim too and we will repesct you ( we still do i think) keep bdsm alive
Gregor Dabu Registered User Join date: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 1	06-04-2007 04:55 SL needs tolerance, not restrictions. Just like in real life. There is room for everyone. No witch hunts please. Let consenting adults do what they wish as long as they do not interfere with others that do not wish to participate. Regards,
Sling Trebuchet Deleted User Join date: 20 Jan 2007 Posts: 4,548	Who's imagination of what? 06-04-2007 07:12 From: Broccoli Curry I was actually invited by someone on this forum, following these debates, to visit their BDSM training area in-world last night, which I accepted. The people there were perfectly pleasant, and the only stuff that could really be classed as "objectionable" was going on in an enclosed space, several doors and rooms away from the "public area" of landing spot. We did, however, accidently walk in on something "in progress" but that's just an accident which I don't blame the landowner for. I didn't actually feel offended by it because I fully expected to find things going on there, and as it was my choice to accept their offer I was not really in a position to file an AR (if it had been reportable in the first place). The property name, description, and adult tag should have given anyone more than enough information as to what goes on there, and for them to be able to avoid going there if they so chose - or teleport out. It was all very pleasant - and in fact very well designed and decorated - and if it wasn't for the fact that a lot of people were kneeling and using "Sir" and "Mistress" in conversation, it might almost have just been a telehub or any other private home. There was plenty of information available about the nature of the area, although I made a few little suggestions which may be taken on board for ways to ensure that people arriving are left in no doubt as to what they are letting themselves in for. But this brings me back to the original point I was trying to make... with proper categorisation, verification, responsibility on the part of the landowner to ensure their descriptions are not misleading and responsibility on the part of the player to ensure they are not putting themselves into areas they may find objectionable, then there's no reason why places such as this cannot peacefully coexist. Broccoli I'm not going to hit Broccoli --- too much --- over the head with the observation that the point that her original 'original' point was that she wanted SL that was free of all of 'that stuff'. I celebrate with her this insight. Maybe Broccoli's post combined with her earliest ones illustrates that the problem with much of the dialogue of the deaf that has been going on in these threads is this:- ----------> Your World, Their Imagination <--------- (Their imagination of what your world is)
Broccoli Curry I am my alt's alt's alt. Join date: 13 Jun 2006 Posts: 1,660	06-04-2007 07:18 From: Sling Trebuchet I'm not going to hit Broccoli --- too much --- over the head with the observation that the point that her original 'original' point was that she wanted SL that was free of all of 'that stuff'. Using the verification/access restrictions that I outlined, I believe that's a reasonable compromise as to allowing "that stuff" to still exist, without "that stuff" getting in the way of those that don't want to see "it". The only problem then remains of what is considered permitted and not - like the original 'child porn' issue and the differentiation in US law between 'actual' and 'simulated' but not in many other countries of the world. That might be a tough call for Linden Lab to make, but as I've stated before... they decide that, not us. Broccoli _____________________ ~ This space has been abandoned as I can no longer afford it.
Sling Trebuchet Deleted User Join date: 20 Jan 2007 Posts: 4,548	06-04-2007 07:43 From: Broccoli Curry Using the verification/access restrictions that I outlined, I believe that's a reasonable compromise as to allowing "that stuff" to still exist, without "that stuff" getting in the way of those that don't want to see "it".i Right! But what you "outlined" is what already exists in the Community Standards. Depiction or simulation of sex with children is something that very few would support. I believe that it would very easily fit under a grey "broadly offensive" category, regardless of particular legal interpretations that might exist in various RL jurisdictions. I really do not believe that prohibition of such can justifiably seen as the thin end of a wedge. However, there has been what is either a dishonesty or lack of intellectual rigour in some postings by various people - i.e.the lumping-in of child sex with completely different activities in order to pursue a 'moral' agenda.

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