New Zindra Blog Post

Nobody has said that. Nobody.

At $75 a month you should be able to rent one from a land baron for under $100.

The point about child avatars is moot, I can't think of a single reason why anyone in their right mind who plays a child avatar would want to go anywhere near Zindra now.

Nooo I like it.
I am glad LL isnt going to discriminate or restrict age verified adults
Thats one step in the right direction.

I agree that most responsible child avatars would probably find very little to interest them on Zindra. I also agree that there are certain individuals who have a huge bee in their bonnets about this and will continue to harass child avatars out of pure prejudice.

I was, nevertheless, very pleased to see this statement because it does vindicate the actions of the kid avs who have visited Zindra in this open-house stage, while there is not supposed to be any adult content there. It doesn't stop the vigilantes but it does make clear that they are in the wrong. I think that's important.

I do have a very small personal interest in this. 95% of the time I wear an adult av. I use the 1.23 viewer with all the options ticked - PG, Mature and Adult, because I don't want to miss anything that SL has to offer. Just occasionally I put on a kid av, generally when I am doing something creative - sometimes it helps the creative flow, don't ask me why. I don't think anything more of putting on a child av than I would putting on a dragon or robot av, so I don't re-edit my profile and search preferences, just for the hour or so that I'm a kid. It's perfectly possible, then, that I could crash and be relogged into an adult region while wearing a child avatar. I want to know, absolutely, that if this happens I haven't done anything wrong. Being told it will probably be OK is not good enough. I don't WANT to break the rules and get away with it, I want to know what the rules are and where the line is drawn, so that I can comply (or not, but that would be a deliberate choice). Anything else just makes me feel anxious.

So, for once, I applaud LL for being very clear about what is allowed and what is not. Now, if only I could direct their attention to the subject of private adult content on mature mainland parcels ...

It's very simple if one stops trying to read entrails of text and thinks of:
1. Land where LL is the landlord - the estate owner
2. Land where the immediate landlord is not LL

(1) will be sanitised - but with Zindra catering for those who can't afford a PI
(2) is sort of common carrier, with an element of deniability.


(1) will happen slowly, with those who visibly "take the piss" being the first to be whacked. Those who quietly do their thing will be safe until ARed by J.R. Random - or maybe until J.R. Random screams that their Ars are being ignored and gets some publicity.

It seems unsporting to respond to someone who's trying not to respond back. But I do just have to say this (again): the idea that Zindra is unsuited to child avatars presupposes that Zindra will be substantially racier than the average bit of Mature Mainland today; I think any such difference will be only briefly discernible before Zindra dilutes as the market determines what actually goes there.

If any Zindra land prices ever sink minutely below that of equally attractive Mature Mainland, it will be bought and used for whatever purpose that buyer has in mind.

Interest in Adult content isn't always permanent, either. People will buy Zindra land for Adult stuff, gradually be drawn to vehicle scripting or NPIRL or something, and before long there will be PG content where a brothel once stood.

I think there is a predisposition to believe that because Zindra can accept the most extreme Adult content on the grid, it will be predominantly Adult content. I just don't think it's going to be like that, at all.

Which is all a long-winded way of saying that I agree with Jack: "Not all adult land is going to be hosting adult content either. There is plenty of protected land on Zindra that will technically be adult but safe in terms of content."

I have just over 1/2 sim of Mainland spread over a number of sims.
Just two of the sixteen separate parcels have Adult content.
If I saw a child avatar lingering in either of those two parcels I would eject and ban them instantly - and follow up with an AR.
It is simply inappropriate for that avatar to be in that environment. It does not matter if their typist is old enough to be my Granny.

The only reason for them to be there would be that they had been wandering along Linden road/water/rail and mistaken the build for something with PG content. That is why I say "lingering". There is no way that they could be mistaken about the content via Search or by seeing the land Description.
It is simply inappropriate for that avatar to be in that environment. It does not matter if their typist is old enough to be my Granny.

It does not matter if there are/will_be parcels in Zindra with PG content. Zindra has been specifically created as a continent to cater for Adult content.

A RL person who normally RPs as a child would be well advised to don an adult avatar when checking out the new Adult-designated continent.
After Zindra parcels are assigned and built, a child avatar in Zindra is a griefer.

Desmond for Governor! Oh wait.. nm

This is almost exactly what I had said in one of those other threads, though somehow I suspect Des won't be attacked like I was for holding the *exact* same view.

Regarding Argent's comment that no one has said "child avatars must be allowed in an areas now specifically designated for extreme stuff" ~ true, I have paraphrased, but the equivalency I see is "Child avatars okay on Zindra."

The actual definition of 'adult content' and 'extreme content' and 'how near is near' is a question, sure.

But certainly there's an obvious, unambiguous stance that says "Zindra is the adult area for extreme content." Just as the sinks are still in a women's bathroom and men don't belong there. It's not a matter of how closed the stall doors are, or where one stands... the clear social boundary is "Sheesh, just get outta the bathroom!"

Don't worry about being unsporting Qie, I'm cool with it and will be bowing out of this thread now (unless someone really, really, really specifically asks for further commentary but usually nobody does). I personally suspect Zindra will be painfully pedestrian.

Regardless of what it actually looks like, the judge, the media and the average non SL playing Joe will ask "So... you knowingly went into this extreme content area, portrayed as a child, and these screenshots were taken of you in this situation here, here, and here... and you claim innocence?" Upon saying yes, add an incredulous look from the judge, a "LOL!" from the media corner and a "Wtf?" from Joe Sixpack.

As Ciaran says, someone is likely to stir up trouble just for spite. Outside of the designated extreme continent an "I was behaving innocently, go punish the perv" stance might stand. Within it, well, I suppose we shall soon see.

Des out.

So we should give in and give up in SL and in RL. OMG NO! Even though the majority of people will do nothing wrong we should outright ban a whole group because there could be repercussions? Wait but what about furries? You know that there are reporters that would attack this as bestiality right? So lets ban them from Zindra also. Yes, that's it! That's the answer, lets play it safe and to hell with anyone that does not like it. Tell Marianne et al to stay the hell out, yes that's the SAFE thing to do.

Sorry but this is gutless and would be considered gutless in RL also. (EDIT: Sorry I guess that was a little harsh. I am sure that some serious thought was put into the matter and it is a wise business decision. I just can not agree that it is the RIGHT decision) Personally I would rather all of SL crash and burn as opposed to blocking people that I thought might possibly get us in trouble. Especially when they have done nothing wrong and have been productive members for years.

Are you people really advocating this? It is extremely distasteful and is no different then the arguments people used to tell themselves to keep various races out of their part of town.

Desmond, direct question please? Are you advocating that Marianne should stay out of Zindra just so you can be safe? When the question is put like this doesn't it seem kind of harsh? You would rather put your business interests above the freedom of a whole group? Because that is what this is isn't it? Me personally? I would rather be broke and destitute. THis isn't the SL that I have been a part of these last few years. I had always imagined you much more cavalier and chivalrous then this.

None at all and I refuse to fall for the shenanigans of those whose goal is to rid Second Life of child avatars.

For practical purposes, those who play child avatars will have little interest in Zindra. Any parcels they have business being in will be no different from the parcels currently rated Mature they would go to.

Frankly, after the venom spewed over the issue in the past week, I don't know why anyone who plays a child avatar would even want to go to Zindra. I don't really want to go there myself.

I did a massive rewrite of the Wiki page, cause it was very out of date and incomplete. Still needs more work though, but I got tired of typing

5) Is there enough Zindra to go around? Yes! There is plenty of land that is still offline. If we need to bring it up then it will not be a problem.



If there is enough to go around, why can't any person who has bought mature rights and still wants them get a free swap? I don't see how they can justify refusing legit accounts.

Nobody said anything about ridding SL of child avatars.. reread plz.
(and this time don't include what a certain bigotted blogger has spewed.. it's not the same.)

Actually that same point has been advocated over the years by the same people who have started it this time in regards to Zindra.

The agendas are obvious.

The anti-child avatar agendas are obvious and are very much in line with said blogger.

And that may be totally true, but the driving force was complete intolerance of child AV's across the board with those people. You know that as evidenced by your stance. It's only coincidence that THIS issue resembles theirs, but again *sigh*.. it's..not..the..same. Stop drawing that parallel and stop painting it as an intolerant desire to see child AV's banned from all of SL. Nothing is further from the truth.

Dana, I was right in the thick of that *hit storm and you and a few others, Des, Ephraim, probably more, were not being bigots about it.

The difference was, that I could see, a concern about stray kids and AR's around Adult zones as opposed to removing them from SL and trouble making.

I'm sorry if I was one that lashed out at you or the other people just trying to discuss things during those threads, I can't remember doing it but I may well have.

For anyone that has been here any amount of time and stayed, SL is much more then just a Virtual World, it is a community, a very diverse community. Technically, advocating keeping child avs out of Zindra is not really discrimination. BUT is it really that much different? Freedom is probably the single most important word in any language. A significant portion of humanity does not currently experience freedom but everyone still knows the meaning. Throughout history people have sacrificed their lives to either gain or keep it. This fight is still going on and we can see it right now on the nightly news. It is happening in Iran.

There are people there that have decided that freedom is worth fighting for and we can see them being punished for expressing this belief. I am sure that there are many who have decided to play it safe thou, just go with the flow, do not risk their lives or their livelihoods. Yes, there is risk and what Desmond says is true. We could loose it all, we could loose our investments of real life money and hundreds or thousands of hours of time that we have devoted to this world. But this is ALL we risk loosing, we do not risk loosing our lives, or risk being tortured or locked away. Well actually there is something else we risk loosing and that is our humanity.

So these are the choices. We either play it safe, we protect our businesses and we ban a whole group from an entire continent and we diminish the diversity. OR we say that people have risked so much more, shouldn't I risk this instead of stepping back? If I do this, isn't it going to be easier to just keep backing down, to let LL ban another group from another area? Isn't my soul worth much more then a few dollars, isn't my soul worth more then any amount of money?

No parallel, there is a direct correlation. I am not saying that you or Desmond took part in wanting to ban child avs from all of SL. I skimmed through all of those threads over the years and do not recall either of your names stating that. But I do remember the other names and they are the ones that have started this present push.

This will all blow over, people are making a mountain out of a molehill. Kid av's will be fine on Zindra on parcels that don't have adult content. If people wanted to make a big issue out of kid av's they'd have done it by now.

Patience is the key, this will be a major non issue once everyone calms down, the danger is some eejit deciding they have a moral point to make and causing a ruckus but that will happen within the first few weeks of Zindra opening, once the dust settles it will be business as usual.

Kid AVs are even fine on parcels that DO have adult content. People keep forgetting it is sexual content specificaly they are not allowed to be around.

And "sexual" is not the only thing classified as adult.

The next thing is to get all mature land owners the rating they originally payed for if they want it.

They have said they have enough land for anyone who wants it, why should any of us repay for what we have already bought.