Another relationship thread

no.. what worked for one person.. is just that.. what worked for them.

anyway theres a japanese belief that when you are born, you are attached to another person by the red string of fate.. how you get to the end of that string and find them is immaterial .. IMO...
when you meet them .. you know... whether its online or off..

Hey Colette!

But, what's the other option, people wanting things "not to work out"? Lulz...heh.

I mean, 'working out' is what it is for each person...which is why I am cautious to say that you can throw around a word like cheating easily (coz it's a very loaded word). It is however a media favorite, and so when I copy articles to my blog it shows up a ton. I've even "apologized" for the use of it because of the copy/paste issue.

While I personally think you are right on that most people are fooling themselves if they think their RL love would be OK with them falling in SL love IF THEY UNDERSTOOD IT IS JUST AS REAL, everybody does have different expectations of what 'working out' means.

Most people/non-SLrs are not aware that SL love is real and that they are actually sharing their partner's emotions with another person after their partner logs off...but they are...indeed...they are if it is love.

All expectations (at least in the Buddhist sense) are self created illusions, and nobody else can see them, follow along with how quickly they can change....we are at some level constantly unaware of their existence even when they haunt us day and night.

Not that you don't get this, as you are a wise woman...I'm just making the point.

I mainly meant it as opposed to the sadder ...

Two people meet in SL .. and leave their previous RL mates to move in together in Real Life.

Just that people should end one Real Life relationship before looking for the next one in most cases.

I agree, but try to keep that agreement in check as one of my own "expectations". Lool

I just wanted to thank you all for your comments and suggestions here. You have all really helped me. I am relatively new SL and just this weekend got dumped by my first, and honestly, only SL friend. (I have other SL friends, but they are really acquaintances who have "friended" me or male AVs who's only interest in me is sex, which I'm not interested in here.)

In RL I'm in a long-standing and very satisfying relationship and have no interest in either jeopardizing or "enhancing" it - it is fine just where it is.

Nevertheless, in SL I made what I thought of as a real friend. There is nothing unique in my story, it's just good to talk about it, right? We puttered together, explored, and had many long, interesting and fun talks almost daily for 2 months. We crossed into RL via email and IMs. We are geographically distant and RL meetings is (oops, I mean was) not in our plans, just good old cyber-friendship.

I never out-and-out said I was in a relationship, nor did he, but many times we'd both say phrases like "we went to dinner...", etc. We discussed sex in SL and both said that wasn't what we were looking for here.

Anyway, he's been missing for a couple weeks. Emails and IMs said he was in a work crunch and that's fine, it happens to me as well. This weekend he's been online alot, but offline to me. He's still in my Friends list but obviosly he's unchecked the see and locate me boxes next to my name.

So yeah, that hurt like hell, there's still a box of tissue next to my computer. My RL boyfriend knows I'm friends with this guy but I haven't told me I've been dumped. I feel silly about it. I feel like I put too much on the line and don't want to tell him.

I had been feeling alone and silly, but your posts here changed all that. I'm not the only one who's had their heart broken in SL! And there are people who know the pain and know that I will get past it and learn a lesson. (Slower, Petra, much slower!). I do wish my ex-friend would be an adult though - tell me and unfriend me, set me free. Instead I'll always wonder if I did something wrong, angered him, bought a new AV outfit he hated...

So thank you for this post, and thank you for letting me tell my sad tale. I'll completely understand if you skip the details too, you won't break my heart if you do!

I do not wish to be mean here, but perhaps you should spend more time with your RL boyfriend; I'm sure that would cure the sadness of losing your online boyfriend quite a bit.

No JamesMichael, that's not mean at all. And I do spend alot of time with the RL love, but he works swing shift and there are lots of times (90% of the month) when he's at work when I'm off work. So unfortunately we both have alot of alone time to fill. Another point is that this is not an SL "boyfriend". I should have said my friend was a girl, just to avoid that misunderstanding. But, whatever, any and all comments and advice are welcome and appreciated. Moving on ....

It is not as mean as it is ignorant.

Why is it ignorant? I think it wOULd actually help her if she is that sad about it. I didn't go down the 'is it cheating' road nor did I condemn her - I made no judgement whatsoever. I just think she is missing something that is right in front of her in RL that could fill the void.

This!

Our in-world relationship just hit the 2-year mark and it is getting a LOT harder. One of the reasons is what Yosef mentioned; I personally am feeling a bit taken for granted, whereas in the beginning I was "courted."

Also, my interests and activities have expanded and take more time whereas my partner is completely content to spend hours just cuddling. Cuddling is great, but after 2 years, there is more that can be explored in world.

Well, i say "ignorant", as in you are lacking knowledge of her RL to make any judgment at all. There are a plethora of reasons why someone may not be spending such time with their RL spouse. I think it is ignorant to think "she is missing something that is right on front of her in RL that could fill the void", when you are clueless about her real life.

It is at least, presumptuous.

ACK...just went to the beginning again and saw the date.

Oh well, I dare say a lot has happened to many SL relationships during that time.

Yeah, I posted in an old thread, but it seemed to fit for me. I kind of wish JamesMichael would get off the cheating/romance line of discussion. That's not what this was about, it's the loss of a friendship. My RL boyfriend knows of this friendship, has even shared conversations with us and had conversations with my ex-on-line friend when I wasn't on-line. As for the friendship, there were no secrets. I just haven't told my boyfriend that I've been dumped by my friend.

So here's a question that may spark lots of comments: should I confront this ex-friend? He hasn't come out and said he's not my friend anymore, nor has he removed me from his friend list since he is still on mine. But he may have muted me and for sure he's taken me off his see-when-on-line and locate lists. I'd love to know why, not to try to dissuade him since he seems to have pretty strong feelings about this, but for my own sake. What do you all think, or how have any of you handled it? Did you walk quietly into the sunset or did you drop the person a notecard and ask - hey, can you tell me why? I have no intention of being nasty or vindictive, I would just like to know why.

What do you think?

I just walk away. People who place such a low value on friendship really are not worth keeping. And in SL there are quiet a few people like that. I have been in your situation with a 'friend', and when i tried the notecard route for communication, i got in return, nasty and vindictiveness.

When people make a 1 sided decision like this and you have no idea what you could have done to cause it, for me it is not worth pursuing because if that person was a true friend they would have come to you for clarification or to fix the issue so that your friendship isn't jeopardized. But, when they instead cut you off and stop talking to you, i say delete their card/friendship and move along, unless you wish to dig deeper and possibly expose yourself to more emotion and drama than you care to deal with.

Thanks Briana. You've been a clear and mature voice in this discussion and have been a big help to me.

A few posts up though, you say 'He' has been away, now its she. So that's naturally confusing.

Thread necromancy is not always a bad thing. Funny thing about online forums - if you post a new thread people flame you for failing to search, but if you search and post in the proper old thread they flame you for thread necromancy. Lose / lose situation...

Ok... now...

Your post is exactly why I keep everything in SL on the upfront casual. In SL, I'm a poly-sexual tramp with no close ties, and I keep to that for a reason. Online bonds will never be as strong as offline ones - they are too easy to destroy. People can and will easily leave you there holding to bouquet and wondering when 'he' will show up. And they may not understand why it bothers you, even if last time you met, they were all full of cuddly goodness.

Likewise friendships. I've seen too many end over a single small moment - the sort of thing that in RL might lead to a little annoyance, maybe even a week of pouting, and then a repair of the bond - online, people are more prone to just get up and walk away. Even if the relationship has lasted for quite some time.


Now, since I really don't know what gender we're talking here, given the confusion above... and there's been some tear-jerking going on... I have to say this:

Its cheating if it feels like cheating.

It may also be cheating if it becomes an emotional investment that interferes with another emotional investment.

Next time, don't let it get so close. Online, you gotta be a stereotypical white-chick: cold and heartless beneath a seemingly friendly front.
- Its fine to BFF's, as long as you understand that ends the moment you blink once. They will forget you, so keep a little distance, no matter how much you like them.

Well, not that bad. But you do need to be a little colder and more distant, or you will get hurt again. There -are- people in SL who I really like, and enjoy having around; but I always keep in mind that if I'm not there in five seconds, they probably won't even remember who I was: even if I'm known them since day one.
- Its just a sad fact of online communities.

After all, imagine if tomorrow SL went offline. Forever. What then of all the carefully built up ties? Its just different from RL in too many ways.


EDIT: Wow... the above really does make me sound like a heartless b*tch... I'm not - I'm rarely the one to just leave someone standing there confused. I do make my effort to be nice and friendly. But its just about knowing when too deep in is too deep in. And in an online relationship (friendly or amorous), the too deep in is always less in than it is in RL. You've got to keep some barriers around yourself, and you have to always expect that it might just go poof and be over at any second. Be prepared, which is different from expecting.
- I just don't know how to convey that idea without sounding mean...

Petra, please don't follow this.

No reason to EVER be "cold and heartless" why faking a 'friendly front'. I do not understand why a person needs to be a little colder and more distant, that is just a crock of pessimistic anti-friendly crap.

I've never been cold to friends and less hesitant to make friends for any reason. If SL disappears i have emails and yahoo/msn live in which to keep contact with my close SL friends and acquaintances.

The type of advice quoted above is a quick ticket to lonely-friendless-land. No one trusts a cold and heartless person and most people definitely do not want them as friends beyond cordial hello's, why? You cannot trust them, they are cold, heartless, and you never know where you stand with them because while you have let them into your circle they have kept you outside of theirs.

Maybe Arcady feels that way because she is new to SL and hasn't experienced what real people here are like or something...I don't know...I just know that she just unloaded some way bad advice if you do not wish to be cold and heartless and are in general an optimistic or friendly person.

THIS !!!




The way I read it is that the FRIEND is a guy, but she now feels she should have claimed it was a girl just so everyone would not ASSUME it was a "boyfriend" i.e. romantic interest.



I most definitely do not agree with this and think there is absolutely no reason that anyone really needs to take this approach unless your preference is to not really connect with people or actaully fee.

The internet is the internet - whether it has 3D avatars or not. People are not the same online as they are off, and you don't brace yourself for it you will get hurt.

Which, is exactly what has happened in this thread, and in so many threads like it.

Don't let the 3D cartoon fool you - there is nothing more special about the bonds in SL than on this forum itself, or some other random chat-space, MMO, facebook, etc. If the online relationship isn't back by a RL something, it could end suddenly or change suddenly without any notice or sensible reason - and with no way to do anything about it.
- At least when people dump you in RL, you can see it in their body language, their conduct, or even communicate it in person and use all of that as a way to move on from the hurt. Nothing like that exists in any online form of community.

You're going to be disappointed.

Pep (It's just a question of when; and how often, if you believe in hope over experience.)

Aracady - what LittleMe said is correct. The AV I'm talking about is a male but because I was getting lots of comments about cheating which did not apply, I said maybe I should have said the AV was female so that topic needn't come up (assuming I'm not gay, which I'm not).

Briana - it isn't in me to be cold and heartless but I do get Arcady's point - keep a little bit of distance when forming SL relationships. I actually thought I had done that, gone slow, kept RL out of SL and vice versa till I "thought" I knew the kind of person I was dealing with. But just as in RL, as Pep pointed out, there are some pretty good actors out there with motivations that would never occur to most of us. I'm glad I'm not the kind of person who can fake a friendship or turn even a real friendship off without even a harsh word, misunderstanding or actual disagreement taking place.

I think being new to SL has added to my drama. This was my first experience with such a relationship and brake up, and the first is always the hardest, isn't it? I'm sure (I hope!) I make more friends in SL and sadly I'm sure I'll be dumped again at some point too. When that happens I'll have some SL maturity under my belt to help me deal with it, and I'll remember all that was said in this forum.

Truly, I appreciate all your comments, both supportive and critical. You've all given me much-needed perspective and things to think about. I feel so much better having posted about my feelings and getting so many honest responses.

Thank you all.

Maybe I'll search for a Lonely Hearts group next time I'm inworld

Sounds kind of like those of us who do not wish to treat SL as RL are being viewed/judged as cold and heartless. I disagree that that is the case.

People have just as many reasons for NOT seeking deep bonds online as they do FOR seeking them. And any are as valid since we can't decide for others what it best for THEM.

You don't have to be cold and heartless to get a grip on your heart and protect it. You only need to be Realistic. You can be quite pleasant doing so. You can also form bonds....with some good judgment. Doesn't have to be one extreme or the other.



Exactly. There is no accountability from the other person....online.

You take responsibility for taking care of your own heart. You can hold it close to your chest....or toss it out and risk it.....but if you toss it out.....you take full responsibility. No one breaks your heart unless you toss it out there, and let them. You have complete control. You make the right choices....you don't get hurt. You make the wrong choices....your responsibility, not theirs.

Taking care/responsibility of your heart doesn't mean that you qualify for membership in a lonely hearts club, either.

I have a tendency to overstate when limited to text...

- so if you want to read what I'm writing as 'keep a little distance' do so. My intention is probably somewhere in between that and what it's reading like to some of you.

Clarrisa: That applies for you as well. I'm not saying be an Ice-Queen. I picked a stereotype I hear a lot - and use it as an example, and I think overstate my perspective as a result.

Petra: Frankly I'm not good at faking friendship. But I've learned over the years that what I judge to be A is often seen as B by the other person. And online, well; there's just an added distance that makes it all too easy for people who are 'ho hum' about something to walk out and leaving you standing there in a state of confusion.
- One reason I keep telling people I'm so casual and uncommitted in my online relationships is that I am trying to brace -them- for any complication (and because, well, I don't want any relationship that involves me limiting my other relationships - I don't see exclusion/commitment as identical concepts, but most people do). I'm not worried about being hurt, but about hurting them without meaning to.

When I was a kid I went on a backpacking thing for inner city kids (get the gang kids to see a squirrel so they'll stop shooting each other - liberals, I love em, I'm one of em, but sometimes we really are fruitcakes)... One of the guides put forth the idea of: be prepared for everything and expect nothing. I've since heard versions of that phrase in almost every 'live lesson training' thing I've been exposed to, from military to college to even reading Taoist, Buddhist, and Christian philosophers...

- Maybe that'll get my POV over a little better (or worse...). Don't walk into a relationship expecting it to fail - you'll engineer the failure if you do. But do keep just enough distance and perspective so that if it does fail, you have room to step back and collect yourself and not be a squashed bug on somebody's doormat.

I understand hyperbole.

Well some people were *saying* cold and heartless - tho I may be touchy atm on the topic because of distancing myself and getting anger as result. You don't even have to put your own heart out there, y'know (to anyone) for someone else to put theirs.

It seems a constant yin/yang struggle between those seeing SL as RL and those who see it as a place to play, create or have fun/basically as a game or escape. Of course many see it as some combination of the above.

I just try and avoid the whole thing. I like people just fine but they are confusing enough in RL without being unable to see/smell them, to boot.