do we even want voice?

There is a distinction between not LIKING it , not WANTING it, thinking its a BAD IDEA

and actively calling for its removal now that it is here.

Words are fun:

Then show me how I can opt out of the screen-devouring "Chatterbox" UI that they are imposing as part of Voice, because I intend to use voice and don't care.

Show me how to opt out of being completely left out of conversations by Typing Zealots who won't deign to enable voice, and who I can't read unless I also opt in and go back to paying attention to Text Chat instead of the world around me?

Show me how to opt out of the possibility that some insensitive Text user will insist on informing me and everyone else about which other Text users are really some other gender, because they told him straight up without hiding it and he "knows" that the pretty neko girl over there and the big handsome man beside her are both someone playing the opposite gender to what they choose to play.

I don't come here to RP with my friends. I do ALWAYS, want the identity of gender of the RL person behind those avatars shoved down my throat. I play a 50/50 mix of male and female characters but as a gamer behind a character rather than a method actor, and do it well enough that my cross-gender avatars are completely accepted by others for the gender that they are portrayed as. Voice can not, EVER, do anything but help my SL experience as a roleplayer be removing confusion for the over immersed and keeping my gaming time light and enjoyable.

I work in RL for a large corporation that understands sales and marketting. Anyone who says that Voice Chat is a feature that will not attract corporate users has been fooling themselves. Real Corporations have FEW better tools for doing innovative marketting to a growing new audience and customer base, but they do have live voice and streaming video options to eachothers board rooms that will never provide the diversity or utility that SL does. Trying to use those inter office tools to address the world at large interactively in a real time collaborative environment is a fool's goal.

Voice will come, because some big-shot at LL knows its doable. It will come for the same reason that Microsoft's founder is the richest man in the world - because some industry leader sees useful feature he wants to add, and knows that the problems that it will cause are growing pains for those stuck in the past. It will come, and some will love it, and many will hate it. And nothing WE say matters, because we aren't LL just those that enjoy and accept their service by paying for it regularely.

I think there are some who don't want it here at all. I've got that impression too. However some want it implemented in a different fashion (not sure how that would be possible at this late stage).

Then there are those who now see voice as being the reason for all the grid problems and are making voice the scapegoat. Ironically I did get in and use voice just. Couldn't do much else lol but I like voice, that's my experience with it. I haven't used it much and if it gets annoying I'll change my mind.

I think some may, mostly for percieved performance issues, but i think most of us don't care that it's here, just that it will create social havoc. It's like any tool or feature, it depends on how it's used.

oh god...not this silly thread again.

There's no way it isn't coming in, so it's pointless to want it to be removed -- it's not going to happen.

As to why some of us continue to post, it is to point out the problems that *can* (and I stress "can" arise from the technology in terms of molding the expectations of the user base vis-a-vis the permitted/expected behaviors of other users. The forum is an appropriate place to do that because it is where (an admittedly small portion of) users interact with each other.

I was in several Guilds in WoW where voice role play was embraced...

If you really want to play a female, and you're a male--I don't know what to tell you. I'm sure you're aware that in early-times, females did not act in theatre...it was always a completely male cast. Did that make the production any less convincing or powerful. You have to think outside the box, and get lost in the fantasy--that's what it's all about. And if you feel like you can't raise your voice up a little, and role play a woman...then try something else.

Men have been acting (role playing) as woman for centuries. What about cross-gender people? They do it. It all relates to role play...being an actor, I know this to be true. You can't convince me that role play does not deserve your fullest dedication and discipline. Female to male, or male to female--it makes no difference.

And the only reason I'm being so curt here, is because those of you involved in role play are always so hardcore about everything...well...if you really ARE hardcore...let's see you do it right then.

Why do you think we tried to dearail it earlier?. But I agree. It was more fun talking about hair and shoes.

I don't mean...try something new as in "get a new job"--I mean try something new as in--try CREATING that voice. Try role playing the way it's been done for centuries...

So you can say without question the breakdowns since the last rolling restart are totally unrelated to voice implementation, and your proof is it's been in the First Look viewer and that it's 3rd party tech?

Hey, maybe it is unrelated, but I've been working in technology for a long time, and usually the simple answers are the right ones. We know voice is coming, we know code was changed to support it, we know the servers were re-started and since then services have been breaking down. So it looks to me like the grid is borked from trying to implement voice, and it seems a reasonable question to ask if it's something that a majority of residents want right now. Saying it was "almost certainly" related may have been too strong, but I seriously doubt it's a coincidence.

BTW- to anyone who is tired of this discussion becuase it's been had ad nauseam, sorry to rehash old territory. I'm not interested in voice personally so it hasn't been anything I've paid attention to until things started breaking down.

Once again, we go back to taking responsibility for one's actions here.

What happens to your driving privilege when you abuse it? Do you not lose your license?

What happens when you harass or intimidate others to the point where they feel they have no recourse? What can potentially happen to your very freedom?

I would be all for voice if there were penalties for misusing it. Right now there aren't any. I believe that vigilance and monitoring of any new communication or other feature should scale upwards or downwards based on that feature's potential for misuse. The potential for misuse of the voice feature is high. Higher than text, because there is no readily available record of what's been said.

Absolutely. I f one makes a nuisance of themselves with the voice feature, their privilege to use it should be revoked.

At least the voice is now a good tool for inworld P-to-P communication, i will use it for teaching and trusted communication.

I think flexi-prims was a bigger social catastrophe than voice has been. Can you imagine how silly I felt when I was walking around with my flacid Fabio prim hair and my stiff medieval cape when everyone else's stuff was blowing in the wind? I didn't type for a week!!

How about the trauma the kinky furries out there with prim fox vaginas feel now that sculpties are out? It really hurts someone's feelings hearing taunts like "hey what are all those circles doing in your crotch?"

Oh, the plight of the pretend socially down-trodden!

I don't want it removed, I just mourn the fact that there were so many other things they could have done to improve the overall experience, and instead chose to put a lot of resources into something that is little more than hype.

Look at it this way, we use lots of third party programs in our SL life. If they were going to create an internal tool to replace one of them, to bring about a change in the overall quality of the game, would you have chosen to replace Ventrilo? In terms of immersion, beautification, increased amounts of content, more activities, etc., is voice really worth the kind of push LL is putting behind it?

Wait a month after voice goes live to everyone, and ask yourself if all the time and effort LL put into voice has improved the overall experience in any sort of equitable way. I don't think even the supporters of voice will be able to say that.

But it goes beyond traditional "roleplay".

For example, I think we can safely assume that most of the people who "work" in SL as escorts and/or exotic dancers do not do this in real life -- that is, they are roleplaying dancers and escorts - not "traditional roleplay" but it's a kind of roleplaying nonetheless. Does the addition of voice to that context really add anything at all to the equation? Does a SL user want to have voice sex with an SL escort when he can hear her kids screaming over the nintendo in the background? Does she even want to roleplay as an escort when she has to use voice instead of text and actually speak with someone with her real voice? This is what I mean when I say that voice can act to *limit* people in a way that text does not. Nothing to do about that other than choose our own medium in which to express ourselves, but nevertheless I think it is important to point out that the voice medium is NOT always value adding.

Let be be rather blunt with you, m'kay?

I frankly don't care how you take the responses you're getting - I do however care about the way you respond to ANYONE that says they like Voice or cannot wait for it to be implemented. No matter what even the most polite poster says .... You've come back with the same lines of utter crap each and every time.

Unless someone comes right out and says they're concerned about Voice being 'ended' by a portion of the user base there is NO reason to keep bringing that drek up.

There is also no reason to keep hammering on 'opt-in' or a 'voluntary' feature: If you've ever actually used the older services for any extended length of time you'd have a different perspective on what constitutes Opt-In and Voluntary!

Really it is that simple: These issues are universal and have been occurring in real life as well as among users of each and every single service provider since almost day one of the internet.

They are not going to go away for anyone.

People can be cruel--we learned this in grade school--some of us even earlier. Cruel people should not be the deciding factor on ANY thing...at all...ever.

I am indifferent to voice but would not want to see it removed, provided it's not being shoehorned in to the detriment of other things. I plan on performing in SL with my band so being 'outed' by voice is not a concern I have, although I can appreciate it being a big issue for other people. I was more interested in discussing whether it's a feature the majority of people want *right now*, versus the ethical issues that it raises.

I'd much rather have windlight jammed on me than voice at this moment in time, but I wouldn't want to see voice eliminated. I don't see the big picture benefit to voice, so I wanted to see what you folks thought.

PS- It's neat to be a forum newbie and kick start a massive thread. Don't agree with everyone but I love the passion.

Don't worry, we'll soon drain that enthusiasm from you

Sure Ill be blunt right back

I repeat myself becuase it seems some are too thick to understand that the "just ignore it and it will go away" solution isnt going to work for many people.

But thats all anyone's going to get, without even a side order of acceptance.

Come down from your high chair.... I am in RL business, do you see me claim that majority here hasn't a true idea about business? I think you place yourself a bit to high on the ladder...

I have been roleplaying since I am 18 and I can assure that is a damn long time ago. I played in friendly, but also hardcore RP environments... all with devotion and pleasure. But as I mention before, a sweet Norrathian Fae with a Texas dialect just won't work....

And oh.... roleplaying is something else for me then playing a role that someone else scribbled down for you.

Morwen.

Ever stop to think that some people continue to use that line because there really is no other recourse?

I've been with AOL (only recently added Verizon DSL in so I didn't need AOL's access plans) ever since Version 4.0 .... I got to watch everything I enjoyed and actually liked about the service methodically stripped away to make room for an all web based piece of junk. The ONLY good features were the addition of a pop-up blocker as well as a dedicated links section and pictures tab in the profiles, as well as Room Owner tools!

They never asked anyone if it was ok to do all of this ..... They just went ahead and did it to ensure their own future and had everyone else adapt!

Each and every user got to learn a new meaning for opt-in and voluntary as this happened ... some features could be turned off - most could not.

The recurring line you keep complaining about is more or less meant the same way anyone on AOL meant it: The changes will become the norm and eventually you'll get used to it. Change what you can, don't alter your routine unless you have to ....

By the by, some of the people against voice are just as thick headed and one track minded.

And it would not work .... why? again, voices for any fantasy species can be just as varied as a Human voice.

It's the expectation that causes the issue - not the voice.

I've seen your profile pic. the thought of you in Fabio hair IS terrifying

See, guys, she doesn't understand that people can understand someone else's point of view without having to agree with it or being converted to their opinions.

She won't be happy until everyone is unhappy just like her about the same things as she is.

Ignore her and she'll go away!