do we even want voice?

Mantra: "LL can't police the entire grid."

But for F... Sakes!!!! If they can't monitor the intake points, when there appears to be an ongoing culture of abuse there.......

If they can't do that, then LL REALLY are the pits!
Brain dead! Stoopid! Moronic! - Totally uncaring.


Welcome Area? Maybe it should be renamed the Gauntlet Area?

nice analogy and very fitting as I have less than half the normal hearing capabilies of the average person

I would go out of my way to make anyone who joined us comfortable, but that is just who I am

I often enter places where I am unable to hear others, I tend to read lips most often, and most ppl who know me know about my hearing loss

even in SL on voice I tend to not always hear properly, and ppl are very nice and do not mind repeating, even if it takes 3 or 4 tries

as for actively making the effort to multi task, it just comes natural to me, so I am not discriminating against anyone, and not because I make the effort, it is just natural

maybe I am a bit different than others *shrug*

possibly comes from being of the not so norm, is this very biased world we live in (RL that is) I never fit societies "norm"

What about the dragon in Never Ending Story. Perfect example of a voice not needing to fit the beast it comes from. Wasn't that Sean Connery? Falco?

No ..

I still think it sailed over your head.

same could be said for going to a place where ppl are conversing on team speak, wonder why they are not speaking.
or go to a gor sim and be clueless, or furry and not know what they are talking about, or heck even another language sim
do you expect ppl who speak other languages to switch to english just so you can understand

also try typing see if they reply
my experience has been yes they do reply, I have yet to see ppl who are not in voice get ignored by those in voice

(sometimes comments get missed, that happens to me a lot without voice) LOL

but I dunno where you are going that you feel you are being ignored, maybe try a different area

as I stated before this most likely will split some users (voice and non voice) but is it that big of an issue? to me it is the same as ppl being split by interests, be it type of lifestyle, or RP vs non RP...

we each and all will have our own opinion about voice, but please do not group us voice users as all rude and such, because we are not all rude

heck before voice there was plenty of times I would go places and be ignored because ppl were in im's

consider voice a form of im's

never saw anyone who was worried about SL voice being canceled, unless I missed something

and sadly I am getting confused as to what points you are trying to make... LOL
I thought I saw your point but it seemed to have gotten lost in there now for me

*shrug*

First of all , I think Voice is a good function . It does give many of us an option to be closer .for those of you who dislike voice or is afraid of the abuse. Here is some features for you.

1- You can disable Voice in your client in Edit , Preferences.
2- Sim Owners or Parcel Owners can disable Voice in About Land - Media.
3- If you have voice enabled and land is enabled , theres a window where you can pull up to see who is currently speaking without searching for avatar. If you have a need to ban them.

Everyone I interact regularly with in SL has in my mind, a mental perception of what their voice is, based upon their appearance and what information I know about them. Accents, inflections, pitch, are all playing in my head as I read what they type. I like it that way and don't intend to change it. I don't want RL spilling into SL, that defeats the purpose for me. I don't care what the person behind the avatar really is.

As for embracing technology, I do so on my terms based upon my needs, not just because it's there.

You don't know that the problems going on now is related to "voice" being brought in. It's probably due to the stupid updates that were recently implemented. Updates have always messed things up in sl, just about everyone is aware of this.

No dear, you miss mine. The statement came from the perspective of a person used to signing up for a service he or she wanted to use, not from the standpoint of someone that has actually dealt with more than Verizon DSL or Comcast Cable (or whatever your DSL or Cable Internet company may be).

When it comes to service providers like AOL, Yahoo, MSN and the other truly big names that have been around almost since the Web was born ... You learn VERY quickly that a 'voluntary' or 'opt-in' service/feature is NOT just something you sign up for willingly.

If it can be turned off - it's voluntary and opt-in. If not, you've been forced to adapt.

It is that simple, that cut and dry.

The bottom line? Linden Lab is a modern day AOL, Microsoft, or even Yahoo - they are a service provider. Second Life is their Client Software. They get to decide what features are going to go into the Client in the end - just like all the companies that came before.

I think (and a lot would agree with me) that the majority of what you say sail over EVERYONE's heads. Most of the time we ALL miss your point--that is, if we are disagreeing, and not agreeing.

This is exactly how I feel as well. What's disconcerting is that the technology may, potentially, create expectations about user behavior from other participants -- and I see that as a limiting negative, but nothing much can be done about it. I know that in the circle of friends I engage with, it won't be an issue, so personally I don't expect it to impact me all that much.

Then show me how I can opt out of the screen-devouring "Chatterbox" UI that they are imposing as part of Voice, which makes it MUCH harder to use text chat or IM's to communicate.

Show me how to opt out of being completely left out of conversations by Voice Zealots who won't deign to type, and who I can't hear unless I also opt in and use Voice Chat?

Show me how to opt out of the possibility that some insensitive Voice user will insist on informing me and everyone else about which other Voice users are really some other gender, because he has heard their voice in Voice Chat and "knows" that the pretty neko girl over there and the big handsome man beside her are both someone playing the opposite gender to what they choose to play.

I come here to RP with my friends. I do NOT, EVER, want the identity of gender of the RL person behind those avatars shoved down my throat. I play a 50/50 mix of male and female characters, and do it well enough that my cross-gender avatars are completely accepted by others for the gender that they are portrayed as. Voice can not, EVER, do anything but harm my SL experience as a roleplayer.

I work in RL for a large IT-oriented corporation. Anyone who says that Voice Chat is a feature that will attract corporate users has been fooling themselves. Real Corporations have FAR better tools for doing virtual meetings, including live voice and streaming video options, that SL will NEVER be able to come close to matching. It's like saying that if we have a tin can and string telephone, we can compete with the phone company. It's a fool's goal.

Voice will come, because some big-shot at LL thinks it's cool. It will come for the same reason that Microsoft applications have more security holes than swiss cheese - because some techie sees only the cool feature he wants to add, and blinds himself to the problems that it will cause. It will come, and some will love it, and many will hate it. And nothing WE say matters, because LL has their head in the sand and won't listen to its users.

Many shout down tho non-voicer set becuase they think all non-voicers want voice cancelled from second life.

They dont.

Any concerns they have, however, are lost in the shuffle of trying to drown out any imagined attempt of shutting down SL voice.

-------------------------

My point is that from a social standpoint, becuase voice is a Universal feature- available to all and built into the client - from a social standpoint it is not entirely voluntary or opt-in.

Unless somehow people can stop others from using the fact that voice is built in as leverage to pressure others into using it.

Of course as a technical matter its entirely opt-in. But the ceases to be the only consideration as soon as humans use the application that contains the feature.

Ohh of course.

Whatever.

1. resize the 'chatterbox'. Newsflash for you - the huge section showing the names of all those near you is collapsed by default now. Everything else is a matter of rhe proper size.

2. Walk away. see, there's this thing in all kinds of services called a Clique - a circle of people who keep to themselves and shun everyone else. They're not worth the time.

3. Tell the person you do not care, do not read their text, put them on mute .... whatever.

guess what? I'm a role Player myself - and I find Voice to be a rather effective tool for conveying what text alone cannot.

I'd like to make one small point about Role Play.

In real life, I'm an actor. Acting is Role Play in its truest form.

I think a lot of you who CLAIM to be into role play, have no clue what it really means. You complain that you have to use voice, when in all actuality, voice is the most important part of role play. It expressed—most clearly—the character you’ve chosen to create. If you don’t think you’re a good actor (role player), and you feel that by text alone can you convincingly BE your character, then maybe it’s time to try something new?

I think a lot of the role play that people are so picky about…so critical with, is only being done half-ass. I remember playing D & D with a large group of people growing up, and all of us role-played to it’s fullest extent. If you guys are really that into role-play…why aren’t you WANTING voice? I, for the very reason of role play, love the implementation of voice.

Why don’t you try to make that dragon hatchling have a voice? Give it a voice. Give it a persona. Don’t be shy! Go for it! Have fun.

"Then show me how I can opt out of the screen-devouring "Chatterbox" UI that they are imposing as part of Voice, which makes it MUCH harder to use text chat or IM's to communicate."
Not sure what you mean here? please explain...
the text chat is same as it always was for me, friends tab and such a little different but not posing a problem for me


"Show me how to opt out of being completely left out of conversations by Voice Zealots who won't deign to type, and who I can't hear unless I also opt in and use Voice Chat?"
find places with people who feel as you do and enjoy the time with them (no different than me going somewhere that has folks with a different language, I find a new place to go)


Show me how to opt out of the possibility that some insensitive Voice user will insist on informing me and everyone else about which other Voice users are really some other gender, because he has heard their voice in Voice Chat and "knows" that the pretty neko girl over there and the big handsome man beside her are both someone playing the opposite gender to what they choose to play.
mute that person, again no different than anyone deciding to be rude crude or crass in text chat


"I come here to RP with my friends. I do NOT, EVER, want the identity of gender of the RL person behind those avatars shoved down my throat. I play a 50/50 mix of male and female characters, and do it well enough that my cross-gender avatars are completely accepted by others for the gender that they are portrayed as. Voice can not, EVER, do anything but harm my SL experience as a roleplayer."
if you are in a RP area then most likely you already know the people there, and this type of thing most likely will not happen. Maybe a rule among those of your group who RP is to not use voice, or if they do use it on an alt.


"I work in RL for a large IT-oriented corporation. Anyone who says that Voice Chat is a feature that will attract corporate users has been fooling themselves. Real Corporations have FAR better tools for doing virtual meetings, including live voice and streaming video options, that SL will NEVER be able to come close to matching. It's like saying that if we have a tin can and string telephone, we can compete with the phone company. It's a fool's goal."
never said it would attract corporate users, but I have actually run into a few ppl who are white color workers in the RL and like voice.

"Voice will come, because some big-shot at LL thinks it's cool. It will come for the same reason that Microsoft applications have more security holes than swiss cheese - because some techie sees only the cool feature he wants to add, and blinds himself to the problems that it will cause. It will come, and some will love it, and many will hate it. And nothing WE say matters, because LL has their head in the sand and won't listen to its users."
not arguing with that point

The social issue is not Linden Lab's problem - it's the user base's problem. They covered their end of it - their system is opt-in and voluntary in the most basic sense.

the 'social' aspect is no different than the problems of peer pressure in day to day life, as well as the pressures of 'society'. Again - that problem rests with the user.

well honey the impression I am getting just from posts here is that a lot of non voice supporters DO want it removed from SL

I could be wrong, and usually am LOL

Not really a fair comparison Michael, in this environment I can be a pretty convincing looking woman with ginormous breasts who can strut her funky stuff and get away with it. No amount of makeup and clothing design is going to allow me to be able to pull that off RL.

Until now, role playing hasn't needed voice here. Same as in WoW really, roleplayers there aren't happy about voice.

No, you are dead on...the vibe they put out is definitely a "get rid of it completely" vibe.

And again I ask why it's a good thing that a new feature would limit people in this way? It's fine if you're a voice actor -- good for you. Telling people who are NOT voice actors that they should just "find something else to do" is an indication of why I am worried about the impact that this technology will have on the expectations of the user base -- negative impact, that is.

Ahh but this forum isnt for talking to Linden Labs.

They barely ever even read it.

Its for communicating with the user base.

At least that small portion that reads the forums.

The "Problem" exists between the ears of the would be harasser.

The harassed is the one who has to deal with the problem. They might not have to as often if they werent shouted down as alarmists trying to end SL voice whenever they complain about this issue at all.

question to all who are anti voice

do you want it removed from the grid?

or is it just that you want to say you dislike it and your reasons why?

If it is the latter then why continue to make your point when you have stated you dislike it and why?

if it is the prior, then do you really think you will have an impact and get it removed?

Sorry but I am very strongly getting the impression from the comments of the non voice supporters that they want it gone. Maybe not all, but a lot of the comments I see give me that impression.