do we even want voice?

I dont see it that way. Ive explained why.




sure - they can prevent harrassment by texters agaisnt the voicers too.

The issue is that graphically-enhanced text-based RPing is simply different from voice-based (aka traditional because it developed before text-based real time communication was a reality) and many of us find it more immersive, egalitarian and satisfying for the numerous reasons several of us have stated in the many pages of this thread.

Do I think it "kills" RP? No, of course not. But in my opinion it's a step back from the more thoroughly immersive text-based environment, an environment which exists more or less on its own, removed from real life, and which is therefore inherently more satisfying to me personally from the roleplaying perspective.

It's simply a difference of opinion, but then again I'm not going around calling people who disagree with my opinion "insecure", am I?

Where? I'd honestly like to check that out and see how it's being handled.

But as far as *killing* RP is concerned...what I've stated before, I think still remains valid. SL's RP has developed into a form a collaborative literature, as opposed to the theatrical acting that developed into LARP-ing.

For me, at least, it's always been a LOT easier and more richly rewarding to set the context, tone and mood of my posts via text. Voice seems to be a heavy-handed and, at best, awkward way to handle roleplaying.

But...if you can point me to a place where it's actually happening, I'd like to see that.

I'll stop being so damn zealous about the positives of voice!

While I agree about the conventional SL RP that commonly occurs today, I think it would be interesting to see SL theatre with voice. Since plays are essentially people standing in different places at different times and how they use their voice, I think it could translate well!

Maybe have a HUD that you can select different anims to physically gesture when appropriate as well as know where on the stage you should be at any time. SL being what it is you could probably take the play experience to whole new levels as far as set design!

That would be cool to see happen!

A fair reading, to be sure, but not exactly what I meant. If LL had Microsoft's resources and ambitions, then sure, they'd have every reason to go for it. But given the current conditions, I'd think LL would be better served by sticking to "core competencies." (Yes, the voice stuff is outsourced, but it's still a distraction from what I see as the make-or-break functionality... which is, admittedly, subjective on my part.)

Well, I was referring to the viewer, and at least from my superficial scan of the source it wasn't obvious that the huge footprint was so much a function of the grid scalability problem, but it's a valid point anyway: the viewer is bloated for lots of reasons. The increment due to voice client integration could be readily offset by a bit of work on the core components.

But, see, I found the TeamSpeak app much more usable than the voice viewer functionality, at least for my limited purposes for voice, for the reasons I mentioned. Admittedly my use of voice and my experience may be idiosyncratic, but, well, for many of the applications specifically highlighted in this thread as being critical success factors for voice, the third-party app really did work better.

Anywhere I can actually - just as I did in AOL's Member made rooms.

If it isn't a purely Out of Character place (like much of the mainland or the welcome areas) I'll slip into character if I spot a likely role play partner.

Just to let you know, I use Voice in my role Play for JUST that - the character's voice. Nothing else.

I've been tempted for a while to buy the morphvox pro. I used the demo version and switched voices according to what av I had. If I was a robot I sounded like a robot, if I was something big and "scary" or whatever, I'd use the satan voice, etc. It was fun!

The only thing stopping me is how expensive that is and how little I use voice at this point. I suppose it'll be a different story once it's on the main viewer, though.

It will be interesting to see how people roll with that. It can be used for more than pretending to be a chick or a dude!!

That's interesting. I'll have to keep an eye out to see if any of the dedicated RP areas of SL are experimenting with integrating voice. But, frankly, I just can't see places like Everwind, Toxia, Midian, Solus, Hell's Kitchen or any of the others making that move easily.

Again, all of those places evolved and developed around text-based, collaborative, literary RP. I'm honesty curious to see if they even take a step in that direction, at all.

Can I say something....

You don't need to be a trained actor to RP with your voice. You've been role playing since you were a child--whether it be at tea parties, with fibbing, fantasy...we ALL do it.

The question is, do you feel comfortable role playing with voice or don't you? I guess if you don't feel comfortable, you won't do it--I was merely being the Devil's advocate by telling you all that we've been role playing for centuries...with out text boxes. Don't tell me that you can't cope with that.

Role play goes on vocally every day in RL...you and your boss, you and your wife...you and your children...you and the trouble maker...

Ahem - vee haff vays of getting zee softvare

But you don't present them as opinions. You use an "I'm the smartest guy in the room" attitude, you use sweeping generalizations, and question the intelligence and validity of opinions that differ from yours. No one is more opinionated than me, but I try not to convey the notion that I know what's best for everyone here. (It doesn't always work, I know). You may not be doing it intentionally, I can't say. And based on your little "I hate this Forum" snit you are a bit thinned skinned. Showing some humor once in a while wouldn't hurt.

oh yes get advice from a company that blatantly goes out of its way to exploit their knowlege of upcomeing features to give themselves as mutch of a leg up on the other players while ignoring other long standing problems for as long as posible for advice on how to deal with customers. . . NOT!

Dont get me wrong I love EVE. But never EVER kid yourself about them or their ingame corp. Their priorities on fixing things starts and ends with anything that impacts them directly, the rest takes the rest of us petition bombing them to get them to even admit theirs a problem. (Granted that does mean that things that impact THEM get fixed ASAP unlike other games where the developers finaly addmited they had stoped playing the game (EQIIs beta) where they kept bull headedly working building the game)

No I don't act like the smartest guy in the room Brenda. However, Colette does in my OPINION, but does SHE get your flak? No, you're on her side I've noticed.

Look in my posts, you'll see the "this is my opinion" line in a lot of them, for the very reason of stressing it as opinion. And shouldn't we be smart enough to KNOW it's opinion already without me saying. It's not rocket science.

I'm extremely humorous in many of the forums I post in. Read my blogs sometime, and that's what I shine in...humor. I just find it very hard to be humorous in this particular forum, because you guys are so hardcore, and don't give an inch.

I'm an actor...I'm extremely thick skinned. This forum, however, is a breeding ground for flash fires.

Sure, but only slight variants of a single character... yourself. A character that you are, well, pretty darned familiar with. Equating lying to your boss to being a fox-human hybrid pilot on the prowl in a steampunk floating city is... well, a bit of a stretch...

My point wasn't that hard-edged. You can understand that I hope. I meant, we are ALL actors in one way or another. And more importantly, you don't need to be a trained actor to role play with voice. <----society might have us believe otherwise, but that's another story.

I agree to some degree, Michael, but surely you can understand why some of us prefer not to engage in voice-based RP and prefer text-based RP, seeing it as less limiting than voice. I know you disagree with that, but that's just a difference of opinion, and hopefully you can see the other side as well.

ACH ... can't you all just get along?

I am not going to voice with any of you AND I am taking my ball home. So there.

Hehe, following on the earlier post:

http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warriorshtm/blissninny.htm

As long as you all understand that stating, "voice is more limiting than text" is also an opinion. Yet, because I'm nearly alone in my argument choice, people call ME out about using "opinions."

Yes surely my view that it is more limiting is simply my opinion, as I have stated numerous times.

I meant the collective "you all", but cool. I've stated that my posts are opinion several times too...but still I get knocked for it, as if I'm a "know it all."

I have to say Michael is not entirely wrong here at all. I for one will not be making Any use of Voice, and i freely admit it's because i have a personal phobia, For example i Posatively Loathe speaking on the telephone, and avoid it where ever Possible In RL i'm Intensely shy, and solitary by Nature. No, Voice is not something i would use at all. I Don't, however wish to Prevent Others from using it, But if they want to speak to me they will have to Pay attention to text, because i will neither speak on, nor Monitor the Voice Channels.
The fact that it IS a Personal Insecurity does not invalidate my Stance. Quite seperate from my own personal feelings, I'm Not at all sure voice Is a Good thing. I've Noted in the Past where voice is used, the persons voicing have a tendancey to ignore everything but the Voice in their Ear, and they Miss a great Deal. The fact that they are so focused on Voice ALSO means that those persons in text only who might benifit from the Experiences of an Older Player who is In voice will end up Missing out.
There ARE the concerns about voice griefing. The additional layer of annonymity WILL encourage the more Flagrant Abusers of SL, and you can pretty much Count on any Voice event, like Concerts, or lectures being completely spoiled by "Jamming" caused by the griefing elements.
Those are a couple of my concerns, and as i said, they are Quite apart from my own personal Discomfort. IF there were a way to Acheive Voice in SL while Ruling Out these issues, I would be Pro-Voice (For others of course). As it is these issues will not really touch me, because i simply won't use the system, but i DO have concerns for those second citizens who are Hoping for a Quality Experience with Voice that i Honestly beleive they will NOT Get.
Voice is a FACT. It's Coming, and asking NOW if we Really Want, or Need it is more or less like Asking if we Really want or need Tomorrows Dawn. We have no choice in the matter, it's Coming regardless, But what sort of Day Tomorrows Dawn Brings IS something we can Affect. I say Wait, See what sort of problems become paramount, and Give LL our feedback on Possible fixes, that would be the most constructive use of our time and typing.

Angel.

Cheers! Thank you for voicing your opinion, in a diplomatic (albeit strangely capitalized) fashion.

Mmmmm, on my machine Outlook, Opera, Thunderbird and Explorer are eating up more RAM each than Skype (which is currently happy munging on about 12Meg). The about of memory these use are miniscule compared to the amount SL uses and leaks



I'm sorry - what planet are you on. SL is not an operating system, SL does not come preinstalled with a new computer. SL is itself a thirdparty application. Anyone using SL has managed to find, download and install it - they aren't going to be phased by the few minutes needed to download and install Skype.

As for finding it - you'll find in the real world more people know about and use Skype than SecondLife, and unlike SL, Skype can even come preinstalled on some computers (e.g. Toshibas).

If someone really is so lazy that they are not able to put skype into google, download and click install, will they really go to the effort of getting a headset or microphone in order to use the inbuilt SL voice support anyway?

My experience in world, is that everyone I've spoken to who say that they will use the new SL voice features all go "but anyway we're already using skype to talk...".



Third party applications such as Skype *are* a valid why for those who want or need to use voice.

However, for those who want to use a better physics engine (which LL has been promising for over a year before they announced voice support) - there really is no valid third party option.

For those who want reassurance that their inventory will not spontaneously combust, there is no valid third party alternative.

etc.

So, I do seriously question LL decision to prioritise implementing a feature that people could easily use third party tools to do if they really wished to do so, over features far longer overdue, which are far less controversial and universally accepted as important and which cannot be worked around via third party tools. Especially as the integration doesn't offer much over the thirdparty tools (e.g. integration with LSL) and in some cases offers less functionality that the thirdparty tools (e.g. the additional meeting management tools of teamspeak).

Matthew