Gettiing Collared

I'd be very surprised if an object could successfully self-replicate on detach... I'm giving it a go now, but that's both a rez and a giveinventory, and it normally barely has time to do anything.

Yes, as I thought, the object_rez event won't fire in time, at least not in the sim I'm testing in, so it can't give a copy of itself to the child object (though it does have time to rez it). You could stack gags within each gag I suppose, but those would run out after a while. Or, a gag could ping a server when it was rezzed to be given a copy of itself, but that would mean it had to be in the same sim...

Well, ok. But real gags can't make copies of themselves and force them onto you if you take them off. I can only see that hurting the role immersion. (Just the same with those leashes which drag the leashed person.. um, that's like totally the opposite of how it works.)

*smiles serenely*

Any Master or Mistress that must resort to scripted tricks to get their Slave or Pet to continue wearing their collar or other attachments isn't very much in control of those slaves, are they? My Pets are bound by something far more strong than steel - they are bound by their bond to me, and their devotion to me. If that was to become in question, then clearly I would no longer own them. Someone who feels they must lock the collar does not trust the bond they have with their Pet.

For those curious about how the gag works, you wear an armband. When the gag is removed, the armband rezzes another and replaces it. It's not self replicating. You can simply remove the armband and that feature is disabled.

But stop worrying. We are people just like you, and we don't Bite (Ok,, we do bite a bit, but it's rarely fatal)

Angel.[/QUOTE]

Well put Angel...I'm not so into the scene, but have met some really nice people who are.
A little respect goes a long way. A little humor even further!

Thanks 4 tha chuckle.

Jax

A gorean slave landed on my plot recently. She wasn't very happy but felt she owed the sim something for her training. However, there was one guy who purported to be a master and he kept going to the gorean sim and persuing her.

She was concerned that when she was put up for auction (something I find distasteful), that he would buy her. Subsequently she was worried enough to leave the gorean sim.

I would like to ask those who are au fait with this subject, particularly the slaves or pets, how do you know who you are getting for a master or mistress? Is it pot luck? Because I can't help thinking an inexperienced master could do a lot of damage to someone. Not physically but mentally.

Latonia,

I can't speak for everyone, and most especually not for the Goreans, who have their own definite customs of which I do not partake. But of those in my accquaintance who take on Pets or Slaves, the process is usually far more personal than merely "buying someone at auction". Auctions are like a blind date, in which funds are raised for a purpose, or to be split between the auction house and the one sold - in most case, you're in it for one session. I can't say much about those, because I find the auction method distasteful, and I refuse to participate in them, even as a buyer.

Most Mistresses/Masters that I know will carefully interview a prospective Pet or Slave, out of character, to get to know the person and their tastes and interests clearly BEFORE doing any roleplay. This is a full, two-way, no holds barred discourse. If, and ONLY if, both parties agree that they have similar ideas about what sort of play would be fun between them, a relationship might be formed. Usually a trial one at first, until both sides are comfortable with each other. In spite of appearances or in-character roleplay, D/s relationships are usually fully consentual, and the 'submissive' has the last word on when "it's not fun. I want to quit". Either side can call a halt at any instant if the roleplay ceases to be fun. A "Master" who does not recognize this should NOT be playing such games!

In SL, you can always log out, take off the collar, or just teleport away and leave. While some emotional abuse is certainly possible, a well selected pairing and a clear understanding between participants will work to prevent that from happening.

Thank you for that explanation Ceera, seems to make much more sense to me than the gorean way.

Hi Latonia

Ceera's right in her post in my opinion. Well written Ceera.

When I held an auction recently, one of the things I stated clearly to the audience both at the beginning and at the end of the auction, was that everything is consensual. It didn't matter how much someone paid, either party could back out at any time with absolutely no consequences. That's always important whether it's BDSM, D/s, Gor, whatever.

If someone came to me and said, they were afraid to participate because they didn't want a specific person to bid on them or that they were considering leaving because a dominant was pestering or stalking them in some way, I would advise them to speak to that person outside of their roleplay character, with a third person as a mediator if necessary (which I've done for people a few times) and explain that no offense is intended but they're just not interested in persuing a relationship.

In any roleplay it is always acceptable (or it should be) to state your preferences, insist they be respected and ask for other people's help when they are not.

When I take a pet - I have no interest in a deep slave, and little interest in a deep submissive on SL, as I came from Gor on MSN and am in a Gor influenced BDSM relationship in real life - I take time to get to know them, a trial period. lately its been a week. When I am bringing someone into the lifestyle, I introduce them with a 2 week trial. Only after this do I consider anything serious, heavy, or binding.

If at anytime after this they wish to quit or leave I have them wait 72 hours. At the end of those 3 days they still feel the same, they are free to go and I wish them the best. It is rushing in that I dislike. Even if I am young and act that way on my own sometimes. Time and trust are two of the biggest factors in a D/s relationship, be is a owner/pet or master/slave. That trial period helps build what is needed for any endeavor, because without those, no matter how much you have in common, it fails.

Ceera,
You are Exactly Right. That is precisely the method that SHOULD be used (and the Only one I use). Unfortunately, Most of the Role Play (Gor for example) Sims have as much to do with Real M/s relationships as a Game of Dungeons and Dragons. However, they are Role Playing So Deeply they won't admit this Little deficiency, Even to Themselves. so things like the slave auctions Happen, and the results can be Confusing, Upsetting or Damaging to a slave seeking something Deeper than "Did i make my saving throw?"
On the Other side, I can Tell you that a slave Auction is No place for a Proper Dom/me to seek a slave either. Bluntly Put, you don't find the best Quality Merchandise at Auctions. You Find Players, Thrill seekers, People with no desire to Really serve or concept of what the relationships can Really be like. You MUST spend some Time with a Prospective slave and decide whether They are someone Worth all the care, and effort you are about to Invest in thier training

Banking,
Glad to see someone being a Little discriminating, but Unlike you, I don't use Hard time limits. As you know, Every slave is Unique, and unique methods must be employed in thier training, and care. Sometimes the correct Path is Obvious, Other times it takes Time to Cultivate the Knowledge and trust you will need. I found one Girl i wanted, and after a time, let her Know it. It was almost a Year before she begged my Collar BUT she has become one of the Most Devoted slaves i have ever trained. I Currently have two like that. Long time in preparing, and Ferociously Loyal.

I time my relationships in On Line in Years (The Longest being Four Years), where most of the Role Players have trouble Managing Months. These results alone speak far more strongly for the Slow Hand approach than mere words.

I'm Happy this aspect was brought up.

Angel.

If you look at the wider context, though, pretty much all BDSM play - online, offline, straight, gay, furry, what-the-hell-ever, ALWAYS takes it's lead and context from fictional or fantastical sources. This year's flight of fancy is next year's tediously hard n fast rule. It's true of the Marquis de Sade, it's true of "Victor Hugo" (not the classical one)... the Night Porter, "Secretary", even true of the way you, Angelique, Punctuate Your Sentences.

Fundamentally, BDSM is driven by and emulates, fiction or fictions. You can stand and watch open mouthed as something as valueless and idiotic as Gor seems to take over people's brains, and shake your head in astonishment - but for sure, you won't change their minds about it. The question of "how does one produce a rulebook people freely choose to limit their freedom, by following" is a Big Humanities Issue.

Its worked for me in the past, and I think even if I went back to Gor I wouldn't take a slave (aside from my rl fiance). We first met online and now live together, have been for 3 years. When time and money can be afforded, we will be getting married. I'm glad your method has produced such fine subs (especially Alex who is a sweety from what I've seen of her), just feel no need myself to find a 'lifelong' partner as I have in rl already.

While my female alt has one I enjoy my time with muchly (and like Alex, is a drow) if it gets to a year, I'm glad. I'm hoping it does actually. But since I view all pets I take online as friends outside of their characters, if they feel happier with another I do not keep them from happiness. Several of my subs moved on from me into relationships that have lasted with the same person since that time. I am happy as someone who helps others find happiness, even if I'm not the final destination.

A Dominants job is to nurture and protect, to educate the submissive, not to ground them and lock them up for eternity. least thats my opinion. Not saying thats what you do either, merely that I take the commitment a bit lighter online, since I have found my rl soulmate.

In that case, you must save a lot on ropes. Why bother to tie up your pet? Just tell her to stand with her hands behind her back, and their devotion to you will keep them motionless.

Methinks you are taking the B out of BDSM.

*grins wickedly*

*Grins back*

Sometimes I do just that. The collar and bindings are a visible token of their submission, and one they willingly submit to.

I read somewhere that one devious dominatrix would, instead of using handcuffs, command their Pet to place a penny between the fingertips of each finger of each hand, so index fingers held one coin, middle fingers another, etc.. They were ordered not to allow any coin to drop. It must have taken a great deal of concentration and devotion for the Pet to comply, through the entire scene.

And for the record, while I am knowledgable in this area and have several devoted Pets in SL, it's not something I do often, and I don't do the SM side at all. Just D/s and Bondage. (And I do none of it at all in RL).

One misconcepion that many people have ai that someone "into BDSM", is automaticly into the whole Marquis de Sade roleplay, with whips and other harmful elements. Yet many people only do certain aspects of that scene, such as just enjoying being tied up or tying someone else up, and never go so far as even spanking their partner. There is no "one size fits all" definition for the BDSM scene.

Wouldn't life be boring if we all just sat on washing machines during spin cycle? ..

.. De Longhi would do alright tho.

edit: sorry, it's nearly home time!!!

Exactly... there are many people who are into D/s (Dominance/submission) and have no interest whatsoever in the bondage or sadomasochism aspects.

~Shakes Bankings Hand~
Perfect. So Few REALLY Understand that aspect of what we do. I Nurture, Guide, Educate, Mold. What i do as a Dominant IS a Creative Process. It's Caring, Deeply Loving if i am Very fortunate, and a Great source of comfort, and security for my slaves. Of course there will Always be those who are in it Purely for the Sex. The Titillating aspects of it, the Walk on the wild side will always have it's appeal for some, But the Settling down to the Day to Day Training, and shaping of a Truely Good slave is Too much like work for that sort.

I have to Laugh, One evening a friend of mine in SL brought to my Home her Girls in Hopes i would Mentor her in becoming a Better Mistress.As the evening progressed, It dawned on one of her slaves (A Gamer by nature) that she was in the Presence of "The Real Thing". Now i Know i shouldn't Giggle over this, but it was like seeing someone who had Played with Teddy Bears all thier life walk into a Room that contained a Full grown Live Grizzley.
I made her more than a Little Nervous.
For her, and Many others, D/s is, and always will be Nothing more than a Game. I Pity them, because they will Never understand the whole Flavor of what they are Missing. But the only time i Really Object is when they Pass themselves off as the real thing, and, In thier Ignorance of the true nature of the relationship, Cause Harm, and confusion to someone who has placed thier trust in them.

Angel.

No pity needed. It's something I do; not who I am. And that, for me, is real enough.

Well i`ll put in my 2 cents, I`m a lifestyle submissive, (not Gorean just BDSM) I`ve been into both the r/l and online lifestyle for a number of years, although I much prefer the cyber kind because it allows more expression and the ability to explore much deeper than r/l.

A submissive by nature makes a choice to accept a collar offered from a Dom or Domme and in so doing will agree to give an amount of control to that Dom/me. Each relationship will be very different and the limits set for what is and is not acceptable will be agreed by both parties, but at all times the submissive remains collared because they wish that.

I won`t comment on the Gorean side as I have little knowledge on it, however from a BDSM perspective a Dom/me that attempts to force collar a submissive is either very inexperienced or just not a good Dom/me.

As a submissive who wears a collar and has worn collars in cyber relationships prior to me finding s/l , I do so 100% because i choose to do that and not because someone has forced it on me.

Agreed, this goes Not only for the Mainstream BD/SM, but for Gor as well.

There was an occasion, a Girl had submitted herself to me in all ways but taking my Collar. She came to me for Guidance, and Stability, and i allowed her relative Freedom. I did Discipline her when her actions threatened her well being and on one second to Final Instance i Told her if she repeated her Misdeeds, she would leave me No choice but to Lock Steel upon her. Knowing i had Only her best at heart, she agreed to those terms.
Inevitably i suppose, she stumbled again, and i kept my word. I think that is the Closest i have ever come to Force Collaring, and even that was Months in the Making. I should not that the weight of my Collar on her neck has kept her from stumbling again and she's been happy ever since.

Time, Trust and Familiarity are the Keys to a healthy relationship. You Cannot Fake or Force it for very long.

Angel.

That's what I really object to too... when someone passes themselves off as the one and only real thing: I live my kink as it's supposed to be lived, other's don't.

As an avid, role player, let me toss a few tarsks in here (Gorean coins). The first thing is that you cannot be forced to do anything anywhere in SL. The second is that obsessive people can be found throughout SL who may express an unwelcome and extended interest in you... they are not confined to RP people. Read the forums about plain old obnoxious harassment as one person chases after another for whatever reason they may have.
But here is the other side of the coin. Non- RPers wander into rp sims deliberately or accidentally and often show no respect for what is there. People who do RP have paid for that sim and carefully constructed something. To walk in and intrude with anything but careful respect sets a visitor up for whatever the owners of those sims wish to do. Many have mentioned observer tags..... if you want to look about wear one and observe.
But once you start speaking, better play the role, or at least not complain when the RPers exact whatever they exact on disrespectful intruders. It is not your right to disrupt to express your opinion about what they are doing. If you don't like it, don't go there. Go to places where they do things you enjoy and approve of.
I am always happy to speak in IM with people who have genuine questions, but people who barge into the middle of some activity and expect it will all stop to answer their questions, will usually be diappointed. Respectful people usually get respectful treatment.

The original question: Once collared you cannot get away. I know this cannot be factual, but I need to hear someone confirm this for me.

As has been stated many times in this thread, it is, (unfortunately) technically impossible. Right click > detach. Question answered.

But there is a larger issue here, isn't there? The fact is SL does not lend itself to BDSM roleplay nearly as well as it could. This is unfortunate. (note to self: get one of my Windows machines out of the closet and set it up again so I can get into Sociolotron; too bad they don't have a version for my virus-free, crash-free, incompatibility- free Macintosh)

One very valid reason for this is that allowing one avatar to control another without a way out could be used by griefers.

Another valid reason for this is that the modifications that would allow this (hopefuly) are pretty low on the totem pole, considering the severe problems that SL is having with lag, instability, and bugs. Although this is a feature I would like very very very much, it is a desirable, not a requirement for system-wide functionality.

HOWEVR, there are several invalid reasons for this that I would like to point out:

1) LL stated in response to prop 1229 that "It's been our philosophy to allow each avatar to remain in control of his or her experience."

If I am reading that right, they are making a moral judgement (as opposed to a technical limitation), as to how people should or should not behave. This burns me up. If someone wishes to get into a discussion of morality/ethics/values in SL then let's start with prostitution, gambling, and public nudity. From there we can move into rape, bestiality (and I'm not talking about Furries - visit Hard Alley), and pedophilia. If your argument is that it is wrong, abusive, reprehensible, or otherwise intolerable to create an environment for a slave to submit herself to her Master wholly and completely, but the rest of this stuff is just fine with you, then, at the very least, the logic behind your value system is flawed - to extremely generous.

2) You cannot walk away.

What?? For those of you who disagree this is a game, unplug your computer and take note of the result. Functionally, this is a video game. Words do hurt and certainly people can be negatively emotionally affected by what they see and hear in-world, but unless you are a shut-in you've been exposed to worse in RL, where you cannot unplug the computer. If you cannot handle it shut off your #%^&! computer, or sign up for therapy, or take a Yoga class, but do not say you have the right to prevent the vast majority of people from having fun (they are paying to have) because you got your feelings hurt.

3) You will be ostracized, berated, kicked out, made fun of; or worse harassed, hounded, etc.

On the face of it this sounds valid, but the fact is you can create an alt or cancel your acct and sign up for a new one. In RL if you do something to get kicked out of a group you cannot undo it, SL gives you a whole new level of freedom - you can become anybody you want. I realize this may be considered inconvenient, but inconvenience is not a reason to prevent the rest of the +2 Million people playing SL to enjoy the product they are paying for.


- - - - - - - - - - -

Just a word about this debate: it's pointless. If the point of roleplay is domination by the Master and loss of control by the slave, there are much better ways to acheive this goal. Here's one:

Have your slave(s) give you her login info. It is not against the TOS to do this (see section 2.3). Change the password. When the slave wishes to login have her e-mail you (or send it to her at specific times). You have complete control over her. If she is seriously wants to escape servitude, she can simply change the password immediately after you give it to her (or of course cancel the account).

This opens up a whole world of possibilities of complete and total domination. For example, you can login as her, have her login as an alt, and force her to watch you control her av doing whatever your devious mind cooks up. Not that I would do such a thing

No attachment can surpass the absolute loss of control the slave has. There is no technical solution LL or anyone else could ever come up with to compare to this level of domination, and BTW no way to prevent it. Even if LL were absolutely determined to force their aforementioned version of morality on players and changed the TOS people would still do it. Furthermore, it would be impossible to enforce.

There are other interesting ways of dominating my slaves that I have come up with, but that's not the point of this discussion. That example is just to illustrate that where there is a will there is a way. Remember: there is no spoon.

Yes, I would like to see a truly lockable collar; mainly so I stop getting e-mails 'your submissive XXX has removed her collar'. This occurs all the time when they are changing their clothes. It is extremely annoying and why there is even an argument as to whether to have a dialogue box pop up and say 'You are about to remove attachment X, are you sure you wish to do this?' to prevent detaching something by accident - whether it be a collar or any other attachment - is beyond me.