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1L Land Sales...

Richie Waves
Predictable
Join date: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 1,424
09-04-2006 16:08
From: Wrestling Hulka
Actually if you've read my posts to Torley I actually enjoy these kind of posts because they give me publicity in SL ;)


yea when I hear names like Wrestling hulka I think "theiving bastard"... drop dead you leech.
_____________________
no u!
Aelwero Guerrero
Registered User
Join date: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 2
hmm....
09-04-2006 22:08
i wonder if a few certain junkyard/yard sale owners would throw a notecard into all their free boxes explaining land swooping, who does it, and how to add em to ban lists?? seems like it's a problem among new people, so why not try to inform em where they tend to go? and as far as the lindens and things like this.... if we must police ourselves, then where the **** is our punitive authority? why could 5000 resident signatures (or something similar) on a petition not be enough to put a "Second Law" on a ballot? illegalize land swooping, and whatever else we can collectively (all residents) agree is just wrong. how many people read these threads and say "there ought to be a law"? i can't imagine how many people would vote to ban one of these types... forget warning people, forget more buttons, just make what everyone knows should be illegal a punishable offense.
Lyekahgood Nighbor
Registered User
Join date: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 27
wwaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh
09-05-2006 01:53
stop crying.
all you can do is bash the guy. why bother, will it change??????????
No. nor should it. people are dumb. now that there are safegards in place, they deserve what comes to them, period. this is not rocket sci. oh oh mister I didnt mean to list my land publicly for 1L$ even though I had to press about 5 button to make sure I wanted to do just that. whatever. if I found a parcel of land for a dollar I would buy it. no ifs and or buts. if someone cried, I'd sell it back. at a profit. why ? because stupidity should hurt. if it cant hurt, it should cost.


Bilker, cheater, con man, crook, deceiver, fleecer, flimflammer, fraud, hustler, mountebank, scam artist, shark, swindler

I hope all that fits on a biz. card. if not I'll use Mounteblanc it sound classy.
mcgeeb Gupte
Jolie Femme @}-,-'-,---
Join date: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,152
09-05-2006 04:45
From: Lyekahgood Nighbor
stop crying.
all you can do is bash the guy. why bother, will it change??????????
No. nor should it. people are dumb. now that there are safegards in place, they deserve what comes to them, period. this is not rocket sci. oh oh mister I didnt mean to list my land publicly for 1L$ even though I had to press about 5 button to make sure I wanted to do just that. whatever. if I found a parcel of land for a dollar I would buy it. no ifs and or buts. if someone cried, I'd sell it back. at a profit. why ? because stupidity should hurt. if it cant hurt, it should cost.


Bilker, cheater, con man, crook, deceiver, fleecer, flimflammer, fraud, hustler, mountebank, scam artist, shark, swindler

I hope all that fits on a biz. card. if not I'll use Mounteblanc it sound classy.


So we are blaming the victim now??
Kris Ritter
paradoxical embolism
Join date: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 6,627
09-05-2006 06:11
From: mcgeeb Gupte
So we are blaming the victim now??


You know, I'm the last person to defend land barony, but I really get sick of this argument and some of the false logic and hyperbole used in this thread.

Where is any victim in any of this? You're a victim if you choose not to read or fully understand the various warnings and safeguards the tools make you go through? You're a victim if you can't comprehend the clear and simple tools that make it completely obvious what the terms are you're about to sell at? You're a victim if, knowing all that, you still choose to gamble with your own land?

There are mechanisms in place to make sure that if you don't intend to sell land publicly you never ever have to do so. So, I'm sorry, but I see no victim here. Losing out through your own willful ignorance does not make you a victim. It makes you foolish.

I'd possibly go as far as to say that if you set land for public sale and someone buys it at that price... tough tits. But I suppose someone will always come up with a really good example where I'd disagree, since not all circumstances are necessarily equal.

Sure, personally, if I bought land (which is not gonna happen) that appeared a bargain, and the previous owner gave me a good enough explanation why it was a mistake, I'd probably return it for the same amount. But thats me. I don't see how anyone here is under any obligation to do so - they set the land for sale public. And someone bought it at the price offered. Where's the victim? Where's the 'rip off' in paying the price advertised?

If you bought a skin or an outfit and the designer messaged you and said 'oops I meant to set that for sale at 10 times that price!' does that make you a rip off low life con artist? And yet actually pricing products wrongly in SL is far easier to do and more understandable than pricing land incorrectly.

I guess this is the sort of issue where emotions rule above logic and reason. So by all means, people, bring on the flames and ignore all of the actual points I make to tell me how I'm defending land swoopers so I can tell you to go fuck yourselves :)
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Lyekahgood Nighbor
Registered User
Join date: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 27
09-06-2006 10:30
From: mcgeeb Gupte
So we are blaming the victim now??


yes. As all ready said, there is no real victim, they listed it, it sold.
perfect analogy in the previous statement, if you found a skin or other product listed cheap and bought it, and the seller came crying, would you give it back because they sold thier 3000L skin for 3L or 300L for that matter, no you wouldnt.

and I meant Mountebank sounds classy. since a Mounteblanc is a pen that we all know is classy.

btw you forgot carpetbagger, and land mogol.
Svar Beckersted
Registered User
Join date: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 783
09-06-2006 11:29
My father found $20,000 in cash in the 1920s outside the local bank that a local farmer had dropped on his way to buy more land for his farm. Unfortunately for my father he didn't believe in the precept being advanced by land swoopers and their defenders. He returned the money to the banker who in turn returned it to the very grateful farmer. For those of you who indulge in the practice of land swooping and those who defend it please don't move into my neighborhoor you will not be welcomed.
Kris Ritter
paradoxical embolism
Join date: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 6,627
09-06-2006 11:43
From: Svar Beckersted
My father found $20,000 in cash in the 1920s outside the local bank that a local farmer had dropped on his way to buy more land for his farm. Unfortunately for my father he didn't believe in the precept being advanced by land swoopers and their defenders. He returned the money to the banker who in turn returned it to the very grateful farmer.


Yeah cuz thats, like, exactly the same thing! :rolleyes:

From: someone
For those of you who indulge in the practice of land swooping and those who defend it please don't move into my neighborhoor you will not be welcomed.


Unless you are the owner of your own private island or buy up your whole sim, you can't choose your neighbors.
_____________________
Svar Beckersted
Registered User
Join date: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 783
09-06-2006 11:47
From: Kris Ritter

Unless you are the owner of your own private island or buy up your whole sim, you can't choose your neighbors.


Bingo!
Ketra Saarinen
Whitelock 'Yena-gal
Join date: 1 Feb 2006
Posts: 676
09-06-2006 11:54
So let me get this straight, LL revamped the land sales UI *AGAIN* making it as foolproof as possible, and people are STILL selling for L$1? LOL I knew it.

I called it here.

Also note, no one took my L$100 bet.

I can only pray that these people aren't driving behind me on the road. They'd probably just ignore my brake lights, smash into me and then blame me for the accident.
_____________________
From: Doctor Who
J: You've been to the Factories?
DW: Once
J: Well they're gone now, destroyed. Main reactor went critical, vaporized the lot.
DW: Like I said: Once. There's a banana grove there now. I like bananas. Bananas are good.


From: Clutch, 10001110101
Robot Lords of Tokyo, smile, Taste Kittens!
Xplorer Cannoli
Cache Cleaner
Join date: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,131
09-06-2006 14:39
From: Ketra Saarinen
So let me get this straight, LL revamped the land sales UI *AGAIN* making it as foolproof as possible, and people are STILL selling for L$1? LOL I knew it.

I called it here.

Also note, no one took my L$100 bet.

I can only pray that these people aren't driving behind me on the road. They'd probably just ignore my brake lights, smash into me and then blame me for the accident.


The problem was not fixed completely. Basically people are not aware that the land lists very quickly. Not every player knows all the details of the game...especially about land listing so quickly and some realtors are clicking refresh every few seconds.

The realtors are not at fault for buying this land. Some even return the land after they realize it was a noob error. Its the system that is put in place currently that allows this to occur...including the new blunder, listing rental land with actual mainland sales.

Xplorer
Amy Faddoul
Carrion Eater
Join date: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 129
09-06-2006 15:58
Love this forum. In the space of one post I now know who NOT to buy from. I'll inform all of my friends and aquaintances of this as well. Ciao.
mcgeeb Gupte
Jolie Femme @}-,-'-,---
Join date: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,152
09-06-2006 18:15
I think its rather simple. If someone is standing on the land after you bought it explaining they were really selling it for 1L, give it back. I would at least. Even the smartest person does things without thinking. How many people have locked their keys in the car even though its common sense to take them with you without locking the car first? What really bothers me is that I heard that some people that lost their land this way pleaded with the guy and the guy turns around and freezes them, bans them from the land and kicks them off saying too bad so sad with an AR to follow.
Ketra Saarinen
Whitelock 'Yena-gal
Join date: 1 Feb 2006
Posts: 676
09-06-2006 19:57
From: Xplorer Cannoli
The problem was not fixed completely. Basically people are not aware that the land lists very quickly. Not every player knows all the details of the game...especially about land listing so quickly and some realtors are clicking refresh every few seconds.

The realtors are not at fault for buying this land. Some even return the land after they realize it was a noob error. Its the system that is put in place currently that allows this to occur...including the new blunder, listing rental land with actual mainland sales.

Xplorer


Should LL just remove the land sell UI entirely and replace it with a request form for a LL employee to come to their house and hold their hand?

As it stands now, anyone who let this happen to them, PURPOSELY SET the land to sell to *anyone*. Last I checked, Anyone means ANYONE. It does not mean "Linden Lab will read your mind and only allow the person you want to buy the land."

As for the instant listing, I'd be more surprised if there was a delay. If I click on a button to do something, I expect it to be done ASAP unless notified otherwise.

If you ignore the three "Low Bridge" signs, say yes to the guy who asks you "Do you understand that you will have to duck under the bridge?", and THEN bruise your forehead on the bridge; it's YOUR fault.

Putting a 60 second delay is just going to slow the swoopers 60 seconds.

Making it so that you have to confirm a purchase will mean you'll have to be logged in 24/7 until your land sells or risk losing the sale. And putting in a way to shut OFF a sale confirmation will just let the morons sell their land for L$1 all over again.

People need to grow up and act like adults. If you screw up, admit it and move on.

Land swoopers should be more considerate as well, but that's beside my point.
_____________________
From: Doctor Who
J: You've been to the Factories?
DW: Once
J: Well they're gone now, destroyed. Main reactor went critical, vaporized the lot.
DW: Like I said: Once. There's a banana grove there now. I like bananas. Bananas are good.


From: Clutch, 10001110101
Robot Lords of Tokyo, smile, Taste Kittens!
Barbarra Blair
Short Person
Join date: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 588
09-07-2006 09:27
I kind of sympathise, but then again, pushing the "sell" button when you don't want to sell is really kind of a strange thing to do.


It reminds me of my very first job, in an old-fashioned factory, where a lady wanted to know whether the drill press that put holes in packs of notebook paper would drill through her finger. You figure out the rest of the story.
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--Obvious Lady
Ketra Saarinen
Whitelock 'Yena-gal
Join date: 1 Feb 2006
Posts: 676
09-07-2006 13:03
From: Barbarra Blair
I kind of sympathise, but then again, pushing the "sell" button when you don't want to sell is really kind of a strange thing to do.


It reminds me of my very first job, in an old-fashioned factory, where a lady wanted to know whether the drill press that put holes in packs of notebook paper would drill through her finger. You figure out the rest of the story.


And I bet there's a sign near that machine today that says not to put your hand under the drill, even though anyone with half a brain wouldn't do that in the first place. People who do stuff like that deserve what they get.
_____________________
From: Doctor Who
J: You've been to the Factories?
DW: Once
J: Well they're gone now, destroyed. Main reactor went critical, vaporized the lot.
DW: Like I said: Once. There's a banana grove there now. I like bananas. Bananas are good.


From: Clutch, 10001110101
Robot Lords of Tokyo, smile, Taste Kittens!
Ordinal Malaprop
really very ordinary
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 4,607
09-07-2006 13:11
You know, as far as I'm concerned, anyone who hasn't properly configured their router to block the correct ports, and installed the latest patches (well, the ones that work, but if they were *intelligent* they'd know) deserves to get a virus. Idiots. Also, anyone who gets drunk in a bar deserves to be beaten up or otherwise assaulted - I mean, anyone with half a brain doesn't do that sort of thing. Let alone people who drop their wallets. What were they *thinking*? It's clearly their fault. W00t social darwinism!
Finning Widget
No Ravens in my Mailbox
Join date: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 591
09-07-2006 13:40
From: Ordinal Malaprop
You know, as far as I'm concerned, anyone who hasn't properly configured their router to block the correct ports, and installed the latest patches (well, the ones that work, but if they were *intelligent* they'd know) deserves to get a virus. Idiots. Also, anyone who gets drunk in a bar deserves to be beaten up or otherwise assaulted - I mean, anyone with half a brain doesn't do that sort of thing. Let alone people who drop their wallets. What were they *thinking*? It's clearly their fault. W00t social darwinism!


Your wife, does she like, you know, holiday snaps? Wink wink, nudge nudge, say nooo moooooooorreeee?
Ordinal Malaprop
really very ordinary
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 4,607
09-07-2006 13:42
Look, are you insinuating something?
mcgeeb Gupte
Jolie Femme @}-,-'-,---
Join date: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,152
09-07-2006 13:52
From: Ordinal Malaprop
You know, as far as I'm concerned, anyone who hasn't properly configured their router to block the correct ports, and installed the latest patches (well, the ones that work, but if they were *intelligent* they'd know) deserves to get a virus. Idiots. Also, anyone who gets drunk in a bar deserves to be beaten up or otherwise assaulted - I mean, anyone with half a brain doesn't do that sort of thing. Let alone people who drop their wallets. What were they *thinking*? It's clearly their fault. W00t social darwinism!


I see what you are saying and agree that some people, especially new residents just don't know what could happen. Things that are obvious to me now, I just didn't seem to know when I started. Its clear to me that someone taking advantage of someone else's inexperience mistake is a theif in my book. Sure LL won't do anything, they don't want to stick their hands in the mud for anything in the game. The won't do anything about texture theft either so does that make it right to steal textures too?
Ketra Saarinen
Whitelock 'Yena-gal
Join date: 1 Feb 2006
Posts: 676
09-07-2006 14:05
From: Ordinal Malaprop
You know, as far as I'm concerned, anyone who hasn't properly configured their router to block the correct ports, and installed the latest patches (well, the ones that work, but if they were *intelligent* they'd know) deserves to get a virus. Idiots. Also, anyone who gets drunk in a bar deserves to be beaten up or otherwise assaulted - I mean, anyone with half a brain doesn't do that sort of thing. Let alone people who drop their wallets. What were they *thinking*? It's clearly their fault. W00t social darwinism!


Well I'm going to disagree here.

It was no accident that the person mentioned above drilled through her own finger.

It's no accident now that someone who sets their land sale to anyone ends up selling it to anyone.

For your examples above:

If you do take care of your system and browse intelligently you can be virus free. I haven't had a virus for over 10 years. Literally.

The decision is on those who beat up the drunk. Just as the decision to set a sale to anyone is on the land holder. Though I must admit that getting drunk in public isn't a very bright thing to do in the first place.

Dropping your wallet is just an accident plain and simple. Now if the person CHOSE to place their wallet on the counter instead of their pocket or purse and walks away, that smacks of terminal stupidity. Much like those people who CHOOSE to ignore the confirmation screen that verifies their landsale settings.

We must all take responsibility for the decisions we make.
_____________________
From: Doctor Who
J: You've been to the Factories?
DW: Once
J: Well they're gone now, destroyed. Main reactor went critical, vaporized the lot.
DW: Like I said: Once. There's a banana grove there now. I like bananas. Bananas are good.


From: Clutch, 10001110101
Robot Lords of Tokyo, smile, Taste Kittens!
Snowflake Fairymeadow
Registered User
Join date: 21 May 2006
Posts: 704
09-07-2006 19:25
OK, I've brought this up before, I think I'll bring it up again....

Suppose someone sets their land for (Insert price here) for sale to ANYONE.

OK, now suppose someone buys it.

Suppose the person who sold it then realizes that they made a mistake and they didn't intend to sell the land to just ANYONE.

Now....I know this may be a stretch for some people, but suppose the person who buys it, bought it because it was offered publically for sale to ANYONE. Not because they had any "nefarious" plans to "screw" the seller over, or because they are bad, or for any other reason than that they saw it for sale on the land list and bought it.

And lets just say...for fun....the person who bought the land for whatever price had to increase their tier to buy it.

For the sake of argument, lets say they went from a $75/month tier payment to a $125 tier payment.

Now lets say, the seller comes back and says...I know I marked it for sale at that price to ANYONE...but I didn't intend for YOU to buy it. Since it was a mistake I fully expect you to sell me back the land at the price you paid.

Lets just say, theat if the buyer does NOT give it back, they will be assumed to be "dishonest" and "not a nice person". In fact their moral character may be publicly impugned on the forums, and they may even be harassed in-world. Wow.

For buying a plot of land and agreeing to PAY not only the seller, but Linden Labs as well.

People need to realize that if they make a mistake, it is THEIR mistake, and by asking someone else (in this case the buyer) to rectify the seller's mistake, they might be asking a stranger to basically shell out $50 US (in the example given) to take care of their mistake.

Bottom line, it is not fair to expect buyers to take a real US $$$ financial hit if a seller did not pay attention and may have sold their land for a price they didn't like. Even if it was a mistake.

Linden Labs makes money off tier, and I am sure they like it this way. I highly doubt that if a buyer bought land that was sold by mistake, and then returns that land, that Linden is going to knock the tier increase off their bill because they were a good citizen in the eyes of the mistaken seller.

If someone has any other data that shows that LL will refund tier in the case of a mistaken sale, please feel free to post it here and refute me. I'd love to know.
Lyekahgood Nighbor
Registered User
Join date: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 27
09-07-2006 19:50
how many hits can a dead horse take?

the farmer story..... not a good anology. at all.

gotta love anyone that qoutes monty python.

snowflake is dead on
mcgeeb Gupte
Jolie Femme @}-,-'-,---
Join date: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,152
09-07-2006 21:53
From: Lyekahgood Nighbor
how many hits can a dead horse take?

the farmer story..... not a good anology. at all.

gotta love anyone that qoutes monty python.

snowflake is dead on



Ok this is just my opinion, but Land for Sale for 1L is 99% of the time a mistake. If the person is standing on the land, at least ask politely. What is wrong with that? Or are we bypassing that because it is a good deal (instant profit) and know for a fact the person will say something like I'm selling it to my alt or friend. That is my real issue here.
Dragon Keen
Registered User
Join date: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 245
09-07-2006 22:13
From: mcgeeb Gupte
Ok this is just my opinion, but Land for Sale for 1L is 99% of the time a mistake. If the person is standing on the land, at least ask politely. What is wrong with that? Or are we bypassing that because it is a good deal (instant profit) and know for a fact the person will say something like I'm selling it to my alt or friend. That is my real issue here.


then please explain all the L$1 land listings that show in search now :)

i'd guess that far less are mistakes, maybe 80% are mistakes, 10% are groups selling land to disband the group, and 10% are people quitting SL

I agree however.... ask nicely, dont just start throwing out bile, it only gets people more pissed, and less likely to even listen to you
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