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1L Land Sales...

Wrestling Hulka
Registered User
Join date: 9 Apr 2006
Posts: 114
08-29-2006 15:10
Just a couple of minutes ago a resident set his land to sell publically for $1L. Myself and a few other land buyers teleported in to investigate the erroneous sale. The individual was clearly trying to attract land buyers in order for us to auction the land. That's not the point of this thread though. Since the day of the land sales screen change this is the first occasion I'm aware of that someone purposefully or mistakenly listed their land at 1L publically.

Some view me as a black hearted individual whom they believe will spend the rest of my Second Life in Mullet. While Mullet is the worse sim in Second Life, I have no aspirations to spend eternity there. I was always in favor of Linden changing the land sales process and sent emails with my own input on the issue.

The first day of the change had the normal confusion, but since thing I believe things have been running very smoothly...
Teddy Wishbringer
Snuggly Bear Cub
Join date: 28 Nov 2004
Posts: 208
08-29-2006 15:29
Laughably, there have been several 1L listings last week alone (non-estate sales). I never bothered to check any of them out, but it amuses me that even with all the new safeguards in place, people are still managing to screw it up.. and going WAY above and beyond the call of duty to do it!

I'm seriously losing compassion for these people. What's it going to take, sequential warnings?

"Are you sure?"
"Are you really REALLY sure?"
"Your damn serious aren't you?"
"Last chance to not look like a fool!"
"Ok, this is my last and final warning!!"
"Kidding! One more time, is your listed price lower than your IQ?"

I think the biggest issue is that those selling have no idea how quickly it gets listed (instantly), and how fast someone can TP there and buy it (2-6 seconds). If your trying to sell your group land to yourself, or to a buddy, then set the buyer's name when prompted. It's not rocket science! *LOL*
Wrestling Hulka
Registered User
Join date: 9 Apr 2006
Posts: 114
08-29-2006 15:33
I must have been offline for those... *grin*

I could see Linden introducing a "public listing" fee kind of like classifieds. Though, I'm not sure if residents would be willing to hold onto land for that long while we fly around trying to find the sales...lol
Jack Harker
Registered User
Join date: 4 May 2005
Posts: 552
08-29-2006 15:37
From: Teddy Wishbringer
Laughably, there have been several 1L listings last week alone (non-estate sales). I never bothered to check any of them out, but it amuses me that even with all the new safeguards in place, people are still managing to screw it up.. and going WAY above and beyond the call of duty to do it!

I'm seriously losing compassion for these people. What's it going to take, sequential warnings?

"Are you sure?"
"Are you really REALLY sure?"
"Your damn serious aren't you?"
"Last chance to not look like a fool!"
"Ok, this is my last and final warning!!"
"Kidding! One more time, is your listed price lower than your IQ?"

I think the biggest issue is that those selling have no idea how quickly it gets listed (instantly), and how fast someone can TP there and buy it (2-6 seconds). If your trying to sell your group land to yourself, or to a buddy, then set the buyer's name when prompted. It's not rocket science! *LOL*


I'll admit that I have a bit less sympathy for people at this point. But still, there's no reason why listings need to be instant. An update every 20 minutes or so, or even every hour would not be unreasonable.

Until then though, LL *should* post a warning in general that when they set land for sale, that the land is listed *instantly*, and someone can, and *will* get there and buy it within 10 seconds.

Edit: Actually, what would be useful is a seperat thing to click to have the land included in the public listings. The problem is still that people who set land for sale for $1 don't expect anyone who isn't there to know about it.
Wrestling Hulka
Registered User
Join date: 9 Apr 2006
Posts: 114
08-29-2006 15:41
From: Jack Harker
I'll admit that I have a bit less sympathy for people at this point. But still, there's no reason why listings need to be instant. An update every 20 minutes or so, or even every hour would not be unreasonable.

Until then though, LL *should* post a warning in general that when they set land for sale, that the land is listed *instantly*, and someone can, and *will* get there and buy it within 10 seconds.


I think the fact that you are setting something to sale and confirm the sale it'd be obvious that the land can be purchased right away. Though that's something to look at... perhaps Linden should include a couple sentences of disclaimer on set for sale screen.

edit: And there should be a covenant for non-estate land explaining how people can use and resell land and where to go for more information.
Teddy Wishbringer
Snuggly Bear Cub
Join date: 28 Nov 2004
Posts: 208
08-29-2006 18:14
Really, I can't see the need for anything more than a 60 second delay.. that's more than enough time to do a transfer.
Dragon Keen
Registered User
Join date: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 245
08-29-2006 18:29
From: Teddy Wishbringer
Really, I can't see the need for anything more than a 60 second delay.. that's more than enough time to do a transfer.


i dont see a reason for any sort of delay. 99% of the time people want instant gratification, delay would prevent that. The system should be quite obvious now newly revamped, doesnt default to anyone, drop down is clearly marked ANYONE or SPECIFIC, and much easier to use and less confusing than the old system. All 3 steps must finish before the land gets listed, disclaimer "NOTICE: ALL LAND SALES ARE FINAL" on the 3 step screen, and finally ending with a confirmation YES/NO box specifically telling you what your about to do.

LL made the system idiot-proof and did a very good job. If a land sale happens for $1 now, it means someone didnt read THREE times now, and agreed to selling the land TWICE.
CJ Carnot
Registered User
Join date: 23 Oct 2005
Posts: 433
08-30-2006 01:32
From: Teddy Wishbringer

I'm seriously losing compassion for these people. What's it going to take, sequential warnings?

"Are you sure?"
"Are you really REALLY sure?"
"Your damn serious aren't you?"
"Last chance to not look like a fool!"
"Ok, this is my last and final warning!!"
"Kidding! One more time, is your listed price lower than your IQ?"



You forgot the most important warning:

"Before you set this land for $1 in an innocent attempt to transfer the land to yourself or a friend you should be aware that there are unethical assholes waiting to pounce and snatch it from you in the blink of an eye. Be warned, they will not give it back to you when you explain what you were doing"

This has been a public service announcement on behalf of the decent people of 2nd life.
JD Cahill
Happily Confused
Join date: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 18
08-30-2006 18:35
From: CJ Carnot
You forgot the most important warning:

"Before you set this land for $1 in an innocent attempt to transfer the land to yourself or a friend you should be aware that there are unethical assholes waiting to pounce and snatch it from you in the blink of an eye. Be warned, they will not give it back to you when you explain what you were doing"

This has been a public service announcement on behalf of the decent people of 2nd life.



Sorry partner, decent people don't call others "unethical assholes" because they know how to operate within the system. I am the "victim" of a swoop but fortunately he was kind enough to allow me to buy my land back. It was my own mistake and I really appreciate it. I was a lucky one.

That being said, however, I don't believe any government on Earth or any owner of a game should be forced to include laws and regulations to protect people from their own stupidity. If you make a mistake, face up to it and stop whining.

JD
Dmitri Polonsky
Registered User
Join date: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 562
08-30-2006 18:51
From: Teddy Wishbringer

I'm seriously losing compassion for these people. What's it going to take, sequential warnings?



I know an easy fix, instant and permanent ban of the land swooping buzzards, all thier assets revert to Linden and no refunds.
JR Unknown
I dabble in land a bit
Join date: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 125
08-30-2006 19:07
From: Dmitri Polonsky
I know an easy fix, instant and permanent ban of the land swooping buzzards, all thier assets revert to Linden and no refunds.

Or we could just get rid of all the stupid people! About as little thought went into that as your simplistic idea. For starters people need to learn how to read and be accountable for their own actions instead of acting like a victim. The new land tools are almost moron proof, almost. If you cant handle the new ones stick with renting and save everyone from the constant crying! It's simple folks, just pay attention and you wont have to blame everyone else for your own mistakes. We'll all over 18 right???
JD Cahill
Happily Confused
Join date: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 18
08-30-2006 19:14
From: JR Unknown
Or we could just get rid of all the stupid people! About as little thought went into that as your simplistic idea. For starters people need to learn how to read and be accountable for their own actions instead of acting like a victim. The new land tools are almost moron proof, almost. If you cant handle the new ones stick with renting and save everyone from the constant crying! It's simple folks, just pay attention and you wont have to blame everyone else for your own mistakes. We'll all over 18 right???



This is a perfect idea! We had a phrase way back in high school... "Stupid people shouldn't breath." It was amazing how many people would hold their breath when we said this.

JD
Precambrian Fossil
Registered User
Join date: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 2
08-30-2006 19:14
It's not my fault yer honor I didnt know the guy planned on adding a bunch of zeros after the $1 when I dropped the dollar bill on the ground jumped in the car and drove away at 120 mph
Athena Appin
Registered User
Join date: 22 May 2006
Posts: 2
08-30-2006 19:15
it happened to me before the new land sell options and confirmations. I bought my first land, played aorund with the settings, crashed, and when I got back on 2 minutes later, it was gone. I cried and cried, now I can't buy any land because even a tiny plot is like 2k. just figured I would downgrade my account since the only reason to have it was to own a small piece of land. yarble licking tossers wont listen and dont care if some noob messes up. lesson learned though.. and I wont mess with land anymore or hardly come on much (the night I do, sl is down haha). there needs to be some recourse when things happen like this... a sellers remorse or something
Victoria Harlan
Registered User
Join date: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 8
08-30-2006 19:46
From: JR Unknown
Or we could just get rid of all the stupid people! About as little thought went into that as your simplistic idea. For starters people need to learn how to read and be accountable for their own actions instead of acting like a victim. The new land tools are almost moron proof, almost. If you cant handle the new ones stick with renting and save everyone from the constant crying! It's simple folks, just pay attention and you wont have to blame everyone else for your own mistakes. We'll all over 18 right???



I'm sorry I rarely chime in but since I am having my own land frustration with people whom cannot seem to answer simple questions, I'd like to inquire:

How do we get rid of the stupid people again?
JR Unknown
I dabble in land a bit
Join date: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 125
08-30-2006 19:57
From: Victoria Harlan
I'm sorry I rarely chime in but since I am having my own land frustration with people whom cannot seem to answer simple questions, I'd like to inquire:

How do we get rid of the stupid people again?

Update 1.13 out next week. :-) If only huh??
Victoria Harlan
Registered User
Join date: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 8
08-30-2006 20:00
Sigh. You are a cruel beast.
Tomas Hausdorff
Registered User
Join date: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 63
08-30-2006 20:31
I comprehend that there is a certain expectation that a land seller will take the time to read and double check settings.

However, I also think that taking advantage of someone who makes an error is not ethical or fair. It is not illegal, it's just despicable. It does suggest certain anti-social problems with the individuals taking advantage of the ignorant land sellers, but hey, the world is full of asshats and SOBs, so I guess we have to live with that.

What I don't quite understand is why it is so hard to put in a few sanity checks in the land selling interface. The new interface is a big improvement, but why not include a check of the L$ / m2 the resident just entered against a "sanity" value (E.G.: L$2 / m2). If the setting is below that, pop up a "WARNING: you have selected an unusually low value for this land of L$2 per square metre or less. Is this really your intention?" type of message. You could even include a "If your intention is to transfer this land to a friend, please use the designated purchaser feature" reference to the dialog.

I also don't understand why land sales (which already have their own unique sales interface) can't have a "seller must approve sale" feature on by default. The buyer would make a purchase request, the seller would get an "approve/reject" dialog the next time the log in, the transaction would complete when they click on approve. In real life, if I take out a classified advert in the newspaper to sell my car and the price is wrong, I just refuse to sell it when someone comes by. And land in Second Life can have real world values that approach that level.

Question: has the land-join "feature" (where you set a price on a tiny piece of land and put it for sale, then join it to a big piece of land...and the whole plot is put for sale at the tiny price) been fixed?

All I can say is that I'm thankful I am not selling / re-parcelling land on a daily basis.
Weedy Herbst
Too many parameters
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,255
08-30-2006 21:26
From: Tomas Hausdorff
Question: has the land-join "feature" (where you set a price on a tiny piece of land and put it for sale, then join it to a big piece of land...and the whole plot is put for sale at the tiny price) been fixed?


Yes, now land for sale is defaulted to not for sale when joined.
_____________________
JD Cahill
Happily Confused
Join date: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 18
08-31-2006 10:44
From: Tomas Hausdorff
I comprehend that there is a certain expectation that a land seller will take the time to read and double check settings.

However, I also think that taking advantage of someone who makes an error is not ethical or fair. It is not illegal, it's just despicable. It does suggest certain anti-social problems with the individuals taking advantage of the ignorant land sellers, but hey, the world is full of asshats and SOBs, so I guess we have to live with that.

What I don't quite understand is why it is so hard to put in a few sanity checks in the land selling interface. The new interface is a big improvement, but why not include a check of the L$ / m2 the resident just entered against a "sanity" value (E.G.: L$2 / m2). If the setting is below that, pop up a "WARNING: you have selected an unusually low value for this land of L$2 per square metre or less. Is this really your intention?" type of message. You could even include a "If your intention is to transfer this land to a friend, please use the designated purchaser feature" reference to the dialog.

I also don't understand why land sales (which already have their own unique sales interface) can't have a "seller must approve sale" feature on by default. The buyer would make a purchase request, the seller would get an "approve/reject" dialog the next time the log in, the transaction would complete when they click on approve. In real life, if I take out a classified advert in the newspaper to sell my car and the price is wrong, I just refuse to sell it when someone comes by. And land in Second Life can have real world values that approach that level.



How far should the game go to protect people from themselves? How many warnings should be placed on an in-world slot machine alerting players they may not win? Or should escorts come with signs that say, "Warning: This female avatar is played by a male and you may not be virtually satisfied!" What about when purchasing that perfect outfit, "Are you sure you want to buy this although you may not look like the model on the box?"

I don't know about selling your car in classifieds but if I am not mistaken, in the retail world (and I know for sure in RL Real Estate) the seller cannot just arbitrarily decide who to sell to. By instituting that kind of "seller must approve" option, the discrimination opportunities come to the forefront. How many furries would be refused land?

The problem we face in my country is a government that wants to regulate everything that everyone does (except themselves, of course). This is what seems to be being proposed in this and other posts in this forum. If you read through, and I'm sure we all have, that recurring theme pops up. "LL should protect us from ourselves." I disagree.

JD
Hervy Rikichi
Registered User
Join date: 2 Jul 2006
Posts: 12
08-31-2006 11:07
From: Victoria Harlan
I'm sorry I rarely chime in but since I am having my own land frustration with people whom cannot seem to answer simple questions, I'd like to inquire:

How do we get rid of the stupid people again?


Engineering is the act of making ever more fool-proof creations. Nature compensates by making ever greater fools. so far, Nature is winning.
Daequix Scarborough
Subtle as a flying brick.
Join date: 10 May 2006
Posts: 86
09-02-2006 06:30
From: Wrestling Hulka
Just a couple of minutes ago a resident set his land to sell publically for $1L. Myself and a few other land buyers teleported in to investigate the erroneous sale. The individual was clearly trying to attract land buyers in order for us to auction the land. That's not the point of this thread though. Since the day of the land sales screen change this is the first occasion I'm aware of that someone purposefully or mistakenly listed their land at 1L publically.

Some view me as a black hearted individual whom they believe will spend the rest of my Second Life in Mullet. While Mullet is the worse sim in Second Life, I have no aspirations to spend eternity there. I was always in favor of Linden changing the land sales process and sent emails with my own input on the issue.

The first day of the change had the normal confusion, but since thing I believe things have been running very smoothly...


I think the innocence with which you attempt to portray yourself is amazing since you are the umm... gentleman who purchased land next to ours on a very quiet island property and promptly placed neon signs on the small strips you sold for... 20+ Lindens per sq meter even after those who made the mistake tried to explain it to you. The reality was you made a sad situation even sadder for many people involved.

I think black-hearted is mild and diplomatic in describing those of you who prey on people who make a mistake even with the precautions in place.

Sorry if this seems vehement but, I've encountered quite a few of the vulture land 'barrens' here in SL in my very small amount of time..


Daequix Scarborough
_____________________
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If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy her friends?
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Solivar Scarborough
verum peto
Join date: 8 May 2006
Posts: 51
09-02-2006 07:14
From: Wrestling Hulka
Just a couple of minutes ago a resident set his land to sell publically for $1L. Myself and a few other land buyers teleported in to investigate the erroneous sale. The individual was clearly trying to attract land buyers in order for us to auction the land. That's not the point of this thread though. Since the day of the land sales screen change this is the first occasion I'm aware of that someone purposefully or mistakenly listed their land at 1L publically.

Some view me as a black hearted individual whom they believe will spend the rest of my Second Life in Mullet. While Mullet is the worse sim in Second Life, I have no aspirations to spend eternity there. I was always in favor of Linden changing the land sales process and sent emails with my own input on the issue.

The first day of the change had the normal confusion, but since thing I believe things have been running very smoothly...


It's a free grid, so I can't take you to task for doing..well not what you feel is "right", since it's ludicrous and self-serving of you to try to portray your actions as anything more noble than parasitic, lets just say doing what you could get away with. You jumped on property while the property owner and the persons buying the property were standing there. You covered it with crappy billboards, and jacked the price up. You made a killing off of me, since I promptly payed your... oh let's call it extortion (placing eyesores between two properties obviously geared to cause visual offense, and charging large amounts to be free of them). You'll be heartened to know that aside from the fiscal impact, you put me into turmoil: whether to simply ignore you signs and build in front of them, or to get peace of mind by paying your price and encouraging you to do it again to someone else. I failed. I paid.

I'm doubly saddened that the Council of Wyrms, who I once heard good things about, has fallen on such times as to let someone like you carry their banner.
Wrestling Hulka
Registered User
Join date: 9 Apr 2006
Posts: 114
09-02-2006 09:11
From: Solivar Scarborough
It's a free grid,


It sure is. Please follow the forum guidelines and remove your post =)

I have setup an email address for those who want to discuss personal transactions outside of the Linden Labs realm.

[email]WrestlingHulka@gmail.com[/email]
Solivar Scarborough
verum peto
Join date: 8 May 2006
Posts: 51
09-02-2006 10:21
From: Wrestling Hulka
It sure is. Please follow the forum guidelines and remove your post =)

I have setup an email address for those who want to discuss personal transactions outside of the Linden Labs realm.

[email]WrestlingHulka@gmail.com[/email]


The unethical by neccessity are adept at using the law to their advantage, so post removed.

Pax.
Solivar
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