Announcing the Second Life Land Store Boycott

Didn't Philip say a long time ago that one of his goals was to have everyone own a sim island?

Yup.

(thats pretty unrealistic if you ask me)

I love the way these things circle themselves. Lauk is a good friend.

No, I understand that the game costs money to run - the fact that 'premium' users like me who pay a monthly fee to play the game are subsidising the freeloaders who have basic accounts is another matter altogether.



You miss my point entirely. I never said everything should be free, but the way LL has set the game up restricts people's creativity as it is so cash-based. The basic fact is that many people - myself included - are not able to enjoy the full benefits of the game, because of the cost of land. A friend told me last night that what I had done with an odd sized 512 plot I acquired was really good, and she'd love to see what I did with a full region. Well so would I, but my life just doesn't allow me $1200 on a virtual plot of land plus $195 a month just to play a game. The sad thing is that free account players can do exactly the same as I do, perhaps just renting a plot of land, never paying LL anything, and cashing out all their profit. I don't see that as being a very good business model, myself.

Do you think Anshe would do what she is doing if you couldn't cash out game profit into real life? I highly doubt it. As, I expect, would most of the 'big players' be exactly the same.

Which brings me back to a point I have already made several times... if SL is just a 'cash cow' you're milking, you are missing out so much of its potential. I am doing my part to make SL enjoyable by the original content I provide (not just some laggy blingfest of a club or casino with camping poles and chairs), but I can only do so much with my real life budget.

Lewis

There's another point I'm clearly missing here.

If you can't go right up next to another sim without the owner's position, giving you

{ a } { } { b }


Then what's the big bother anyway? Is it a big deal if something over a region away that can't be seen or affect you in the slightest, happens to pop up?

The only real problem that has been mentioned is the potential for griefing - and if people have that much money to waste on griefing, I say let 'em, because it isn't going to last for long.

There is a HEAP of land available all over the place - currently 3746 plots of 1024 sq m or above, should you want to buy the average user's kind of land. There's even over 100 plots listed at 8096 sq m or above - plenty for big projects. Larger plots still are available.

The one problem is that people don't want to be near laggy clubs/casinos, or eyesore builds. My guess is that once DI disappears, much of the clubs will disappear, to be replaced by more quality builds at least. Maybe the better way would be to encourage people to build better and more considerate to their neighbours, rather than just diluting the already limited playerbase over a wider and wider area.

Lewis

Agreed. At least by LL's current definition.

Part of it is determined by Havok as much as anything, I think. But I don't know.

But if you could reduce the size of a sim or, as other proposals suggest, increase the size of a sim without changing the prim constraints. There is a whole range of "private" sims that are possible.

Why is a sim 256x256? Well, there's a technical reason, but it isn't ordained by God.

And why do two sims have to be adjacent to see from one to the other. It's all that's supported so far. But one can imagine a much richer space.

LL is just on the edge of understanding and more importantly on the edge of empowerment. They are 2 or 3 years from being able to implement something better.

But if they understand a direction, I believe they can do it.

Do we have a direction to send them?

Or to give players a way to combine areas from different places and to exclude places nearby.

I know it sounds radical, but it is a virtual world afterall.

Why does proximity in a virtual space have any meaning at all? Only because LL has implemented a strict representation of physical space.

The problem with your logic, like so many other people, is that you immediately asume that someone who is making alot of money simply can't be contributing any real value to the community. You assume that the 'laggy blingfest' build is what is making money in SL (I can assure you, the amount of real world money those places are bringing in compared to what they spend is depressingly low). You assume that the people that are the big players in SL, WHATEVER THAT MEANS, are simply parasites on the back of the virtual economy.

For the record, I completely agree that tier fees are rediculous to the extreme. If Linden Labs would spend any amount of money changing the structure of how sims work, decreasing wasted bandwidth(loading your clothes again and again and again), removing unneeded parts (when was the last time the cellular cloud simulation or wind simulation actually improved your experience versus a random cloud generator or fake local wind?), optimizing the server code and infrastructure to the point where it doesn't take an entire computer to run a simulation of an area about the size of a football field, then maybe it wouldn't cost a gazillion dollars to own a sim. There's a ton of sims out there that don't use anymore bandwidth or resources than a professional server host would sell for almost a quarter or less of the amount that linden labs charges for a sim. It's just wasteful.

I AM one of those people that downgraded to a basic account again (although I did pay for my basic account when I got it) because, frankly, I don't want to own land on the main grid. I want the comfort and security, and relative beauty of having my shop in a private sim. When nearly 4/5ths of the money you spend for a premium account is returned to you in the form of stipend, I'd hardly call that subsidizing basic accounts. More basic accounts means more customers for me, which means greater money. I pay my tier fee to Anshe, who in turn pays it to LL. That money didn't 'disappear', it simply was routed to LL in a different way.

Those who have played GO, the Japanese game of surrounding will immediately recognise what is going on here...


Pay to play the game.. and pay to:

Protect your territory
Expand your territory
Surround your enemy
Block your enemy

and make a profit for the game maker at same time

Ingenious

The wind? Yesterday, and the day before that, and --- One of the attractions of SL, in general, is that it is a space where we can do things that we enjoy without the attendant costs, etc., of reality. In my case, a lot of that enjoyment is from sailing -- I can't afford to own a nice sailboat, have a place to keep it in the water, pay all the myriad costs of maintaining it. Nor can I pay the very high fees of renting a boat (talk to someone in the business, find out what he/she pays for insurance!). In SL -- I can step out of a stressful day in FL and go for a sail, and relax.

Don't assume a feature of SL is unnecessary just because you don't use it.

Yes, with wind functions, I can do things like have paper aeroplanes that blow in the wind, or build a sniper rifle where the wielder has to think about wind effects... all sorts.

We should have a whole set of weather effects really.

And what exactly would be the noticable difference for the end user, if those values for wind were simply faked each time the function was called? NONE... there'd be no way of knowing. In fact, the whole thing could be simplified while maintaining the ability to have everyone have the same wind force - simply apply uniform wind direction over the entire sim.

I really don't think a function that maybe... 2 people on the entire grid are using at any given time constitutes something that should require an entire subsystem running on every single sim at all times. This is, in fact, a perfect example of fat that could be trimmed.

I see that this topic has sparked a lot of emotion. I'm not quite sure how I feel about this new reservation system yet. I would like to know one thing, though!

Would it be possible to have some sort of a trading market set up for these options? Like LindeX, except allowing residents to trade void space options for L$ (or even USD!). Oh, and buy orders too please, not just sell orders!

I can predict that some of these void spaces will become a lot more valuable than other void spaces. It would be fun to trade them, kind of like how people reserve and auction domain names on the 2D www.

in go you only have to win by one point...

If you need room for expansion, LL will not charge you for the move. It benefits them to move you to for free so you keep expanding. If you just want to move for the sake of moving, you'll be charged.

There are no Capitalist at Linden Lab Headquarters. Everything
you just proposed went in one ear and out the other over there...
You have to explain this concept in terms that a Socialist can
understand.



"The goal of all good SLers (notice you are "good" if you have their approved ideas) is to do away with money and fight for equality."

Remember, equality and individual liberty cannot coexist because if you are free to discriminate or spend your own money that would be "unfair," it would be "inequality."

"You see, there is enough prims to give to the whole world of SL, but because of Linden Dollars those resources are concentrated among very few people…the rich are the only ones with access to it."

"We can trade goods and services at the very basic level. We can use sandboxes and trade what we make with our hands. Capitalism is evil it deprives land to sell widgets to poor people."


Unless you talk this way, nobody at Linden Labs can understand you.
Neither can their supporters who roam the forums and claim they
"paid" for their weekly Linden Dollar Stipend..

You mean aside form the fact its listed under the premium benefits its paid for?

Or is there another list of benfits, a more accurate one..oh wait that one -is- accurate.

Is it that hard to read reserve? Take off the painted glasses..read the page that shows we pay for it.

http://secondlife.com/whatis/plans.php

In case you forgot

Looks kind of like ASCII breasts.

(obviously seen top-down, with the subject laying flat on her back, with gravity pulling them to either side of her chest.)

Everything you have described here is pure capitalism. You have to think on your feet if you are to survive in this brave new world.

To those not afraid to do a little DD and work - rewards will be yours!!!



Footnote: I do not engage in, nor condone, extortion. I do, however, strongly support free markets.

Because it makes business sense to do it - and if you don't - others will.

If you fall down on the job, before you know it you'll all be bowing before Bergman Corp. Yay Capitalism!!!

Better keep working!!

Exactly right. Resist the wishes of an autocratic socialist. Support ANY free market.

Go Capitalism!!

I think its all way too expensive as it is, and I think Lindens should be providing private island owners more perks for the vast amount of rl money that they pay, before they think up of new ways to charge more money.

I also think that Lindens should provide a little explaination as to why they put in these new changes so we understand better what their trying to do. That might take away at least half of the forum drama.

Im just confused about the whole thing really. They forgot to invite me to the meeting and im a private island owner. I can see that this Land store is maybe an automated way for them to orgnaise private islands better. But whats all this auctioning stuff to protect your island etc.... about? Shouldnt it already be protected for $12950 and $195 a month? Shouldn't we have the option of expanding as we want to, for that price? Wouldn't they make more money if they just made if easier for people to buy islands and expand as/if they want to?

Oh and btw not all island owners are rich in rl. I'm not. I just work hard on it to make it all pay for itself as my little challange and hobby. And it is a lot of hard work to make it all work out. Not to mention sl drama and stress lol

Sometimes I think theres enough drama on sl to host a big new epic soap opera for the next 10 years or so

I think that this is more than a little bit unfair. I don't think it's Linden Lab's job to make a bunch of "big red buttons" that someone can push to make the world just the way that one person or another desires. Your heart seems to be in the right place in your posts, in that you seem to care about economic issues. You miss the point ENTIRELY however, that it is up to us, both individually and collectively, to decide what we want the world to be like and to work towards that.

Essentially, if you want a capitalist market economy instead of a commune, YOU must make one. Nobody is going to do the work for you if you whine enough. And no, whining about everyone else's shortcommings on some web forum doesn't count as being productive towards the goals of change!

For your reference, there is a resident economic summit on the horizon. A group of like minded people will be getting together to decide what kinds of economic systems we as residents can pioneer and evolve, to help solve the economic problems which plague our world.

I've heard a lot of talk from you on this forum, which in and of itself isn't a bad thing, but so far I've seen absolutely no ACTION. Are you ready to put your time and effort where your mouth is? Will you join us at the summit? If so, shoot me an IM from your main account (not this alt) and we'll add you to the attendance list.

If you're not willing to step up to the plate and do something though, don't you think it's about time to stop with this never-ending chain of posts? Talk is cheap, and complaining about the way things are today will never get you anywhere. Now is the time for action. It is time for us to come together as residents and work towards a better tomorrow, rather than dwelling on the low points of today and insisting over and over that "someone should DO SOMETHING".

And, more generally, has the boycott of the land store ended yet? If so, under what terms? If not, what are the terms under which the boycott will be called off?

It's back!

Seriously, Shaun, ReserveBank Division is a joke alt, it's not worth it.

Monthly fee for membership: L$ 2,885.50

Monthly land use fee for virtual land ownership: L$21,750.00

Weekly Land Lot Listing Fee under Stores: L$ 30.00

Weekly Classifieds Payment: L$ 200.00

Paying L$2800 monthly for reserving the void next your sim: PRICELESS.

There are somethings money can't buy, for everything else there's Linden Dollars.

Troy