Volunteer to End Your Premium Acct. Stipends

Bloop, it's not this thread alone. It's every thread in this forum right now. This has been one of the better ones. It's the bitterness and resentfulness, the way people read other's posts selectively, unwilling to consider that any way other than there own is right, or even has a point. Opinions seem to come prebaked, and there is no room for discussion. Myth gets regurgitated as fact.

It's this culture of demonisation, of blame, that gets to me. The strange kind of hyper-morality that seems to permeate SL. I often wonder, if some of these outlooks on life were translated to RL, how much sense they would make at all. I just don't wish to enter these kind of discussions anymore, they are fruitless.

Thanks for your input, Qweebokal! There is merit to your point.

I remember reading or hearing something that a LL employee said about the economy--it may have been Phil Rosedale. I could be wrong about this recollection, but it went something like this:



Well, that's a terrible paraphrase, but I believe it was something to that effect.

Anything is possible with economies and that certainly could happen. Many of us who are concerned about the money supply are trying to be proactive about a situation that could turn bad. So, by waiting too long, it may be too late. Of course by not waiting, you will never know if the economy would have stabilized on its own.

Whether you attempt to adjust an economy or just let it be, it always seems like you lose!

I guess this is basically what Rasah just said.

Anyone know when and where the $L burning party will be? And if I miss it, is the $L going to Governor Linden?

I appreciate were you're coming from and I am just about there myself. I'm participating in this thread and one more because I am the OP. Other than that, I cannot and will not waste my time in these forums until the fog has lifted.

Besides, I have RL work to do and a shop to get going in SL! I'll see you in world.

Great question. Yeah, Svar originally suggested this idea (/130/a0/109283/6.html#post1059332).

I do not believe it has been determined yet but I suggested we convene at Governor Linden's Mansion in Clementina on Tuesday. No time has been set though. Where ever we hold it, it should be a civil event.

Svar, any ideas--if you are still reading this painful thread?

I'm still reading every post. I don't have any concrete suggestion except being retired and at times spending up to 16 hours per day in SL/watching the forums I can attend two seperate parties for people living both in Europe/east coast USA and west coast USA/Australia(and NZ). I would also advertise the events and invite all who posted in this thread whether they agree/disagree or are just interested in the subject. The people who posted represent pretty much a cross section of business interests from throughout SL and I for one don't see any bad people in the group just lots of people with different opinions (if anyone who posted is responsible for diliberately crashing the main grid you are not invited). Ok a couple got carried away but for the most part they have been civil.

This whole idea is really just a noble gesture but who knows where it might lead, I for one thought when I first got into SL that I was getting L$1000 per week stipend and wondered how I could open 1000 premium accounts to cash in on the L$361/1 exchange rate. I was chastised by Tiger Clinton, who I think has left because she was interested in the investment possibilities of SL, for making the money supply problem worst by bringing in more money without providing a counterbalance with some sort of sink. Some of the more vocal advocates of the huge imbalance point out the same problem and I finally got the message.

Pure and simple if everybody holding L$ were to try to sell on the same day all they could get would be between $30,000 and $40,000 because that is how much new money comes into the game daily on the LindeX. That would an exchange rate of L$17,000/1 or worse. Do I ever think that would happen? No. The only people who actually know how much L$ is being held in inactive accounts is LL and they aren't talking but the number could be huge.

Lets suppose there are 100,000 inactive accounts and the average amount in each account is L$1000. That would equal L$100 million. For every additional L$1000 in each of those accounts would be another L$100 million. Nobody seems to really know how this economy works. Lots of intellegient people have a multitude of differing opinions but show me one that can tell me why the value of the L$ is what it is today or where it will be next month.

Rasah Tigereye,

I wanted to say thank you and your fellow currency investors for bringing some stability to the currency market. I wasn't in SL much today because of two very big auto races in the USA so couldn't watch the trading in the LindeX like I could on the previous three days but was impressed by the disipline shown in not running up the exchange rate. On a day when almost L$7 million additional was offered in limit sell orders the exchange rate has stayed around L$330/1. The large holders of L$ who sell content in SL are many times holding pure profit and will continually run up the exchange rate since the lose to them is 1% on less. The currency traders are operating on very slim margin and a change in the exchange rate of 1% could cut their profit in half.

I'm glad you're still monitoring this thread and I agree with your points above. Every one is welcome as long as they are civil. We should request (as I believe you mentioned when bringing up this idea) that a Linden participate in each party. Any suggestions on who we should ask? If there is a Linden listening, do you want to volunteer?

Perhaps we should pick times 12 hours apart--say 9 in the evening (EST) and 9 in the morning (EST). That way it will give everyone a fair chance to participate.

You raise some interesting questions concerning the percentage of the total money supply that may be held in inactive accounts. Although there is no way of knowing when this money could come into play again, it does make you think about how much of a sink affect (even temporary) this unknown amount may exert on the economy.

Rasah:

I second Svar's compliments and also appreciate your goodwill.

Although I have closely watched the on goings of the currency market, I have only made one transaction on the Lindex (a buy of Lindens to use to purchase land and pay a contractor to do some landscaping for me). However, I do not have a comfortable feel for the current market trends or conditions. Your input and insight helps clarify what I had suspected.

I also agree that any free market can always benefit form a good mindset.

I assume one was the Indy 500? I'm from Indiana--in my RL, of course,

Well, now on page 12, I might as well throw in my 2 cents worth.

Why should I give up my premium stipends-- which I pay for-- to help boost an economy that LL is slowly destroying by refusal to alter the way in which LindeX works?

It seems that every move LL is making in regard to the economy is a step in the wrong direction. They bring in the new Market Sell system and rather than helping, it causes anger in numerous users who unwittingly get ripped by the system. Further, it doesn't cause the Limit Sell system to drop... it averaged 332 today!

Instead of taking pro-active measures to immediately stabilize and control the economy, Linden Lab is creating stock market games and obscure documentation that just further confuse the issue. Not one thing they've done so far has helped one bit to stabilize this economy. Scuse me for being blunt, but that's the long and short of it.

That's their choice of course. Their company, their rules. But I don't see how people dropping L500 a week-- that they pay for-- is going to do much to affect an economy into which millions of L$ are being flooded each week in stipends to non-paying users. Your offer to sacrifice your premium stipends is a nice, altruistic idea and I commend that... but imo a shot in the dark in the wrong direction.

Steps need to be taken, but it's unlikely you'll get enough people to give up stipends to even make a dent. It's for sure the freebie users will kick and scream before giving up their L50 a week (what, 16 cents?)... we've seen that reaction here on these forums.

A user a while back recommended starting a boycot of LindeX. At first I was very much against the idea. But now I wonder... if every seller were to suddenly remove ALL sale orders from LindeX, how fast would LL wake up and pay attention?

Or, on the other hand, would Linden Lab suddenly decide they're going to sell L$ themselves after all (just to compensate, y'know). Is this what they're aiming for in the overall scheme of things? I can just see some corporate magnate looking at the very real US$ flowing through the L$ market and wondering "How can we get a chunk of that?" Who knows. All I know is that LindeX is not working, the economy is taking a nosedive, and LL is playing market games with people's incomes. That's the bottom line of it.

The sad thing is that no one seems to realize what a bad long-term effect this is going to have on Second Life... nor the amount of customer ill-will this whole things is generating. SL was set up as an economic system and many people earn their RL livings here as a result of that concept. The system is tanking due to mismanagement of the basic economic model. Not good.

Yes,one was the Indy 500, I have been listening on the radio, going to closed circuit TV and finally watching it on broadcast TV since 1957. I also lived ih the Sacramento, Ca area for a long time and watched A.J. Foyt and Mario Andretti battle it out on dirt for 100 miles every year when USAC still raced on dirt. I never went to one of those 100 mile dirt track races where A.J. didn't win, he owned that track.

Svar, the 500 sure was exciting! With only 2 laps to go it sure looked like one of the Andretti's would win. It was an amazing finish.

Wayfinder, I appreciate your contribution to this debate! It's evident to me that the majority of people who have taken the time to share their two cents truly want SL to be a healthier, better place for everyone. We do not have to agree on how that can be accomplished, but it is clear that we agree that something needs to done.



I'm sorry you had to slog through 12+ pages!



I agree. The new trading system was not properly implemented. Too many sellers were caught off guard and paid the price--figuratively and literally.



Thank you. You are correct. With too few people signed up, our voluntary effort will have absolutely no affect on the money supply issue. But we are standing up for what we believe in to make a point to LL.

Again, thank you for your input. This is a difficult issue to comprehend and no one person has the answers. It is civil debates such as this that will help us find the best solution. I only hope that it happens sooner than later.

And that in itself, I will applaud. Hopefully, such a gesture will not fall on deaf ears. But truth is, I and others told LL this would happen before they ever implemented LindeX. When it started happening, we reminded them. Now that it's in a full swing mess it's hard for them to ignore the problem... but they're still not listening to the solutions. Dunno, it's a sad situation for sure.

But as far as the sentiments of what you're doing and the concept of taking a stand for what you believe... surely no one can deny the value of that.

It sure was.

Please post an RSVP if you have read this post. I will private message anyone on the volunteer list who does not respond.

As requested by several people, we will be holding a Linden "burning" party tomorrow to voice our concern over the too large of a money supply imbalance in SL's economy. We will hold two parties to allow sufficient opportunities for those in different parts of the world to join in.

By "burn," we mean return our stipends to Governor Linden. You will need to make sure that you are very careful when paying Gov. Linden. Only pay the amount of your stipend you wish to forfeit--50L for basic accounts and 500L for Premium Accounts. Any mistakes cannot be corrected.

Each Tuesday, the day stipends are paid out, those who are interested will meet at the same location and same time to continue our protest. Please do not feel that, since your name is on the list, you have to join in. It is your choice whether to participate once, every week, or never.

Since residents in Europe, Asia, Australia, and Africa receive their weekly stipends first, the first party will be for them. The second party will be for residents in North and South America. You are more than welcome to join either or both parties but we assume you will "burn" your Lindens at only one of them.

Location: Governor Linden's Mansion, a Sec, Clementina (182, 110, 61)
Day: Each Tuesday
Time first group: 9 am EST
Time second group: 9 pm EST

You can join in even if you have not yet placed your name on the Volunteer to Opt out of Stipends list. Just show up and participate.

Anyone is welcome to attend, even if you are not going to be "burning" your Lindens. The only requirement is that everyone act civil. This is not an opportunity to grief as griefers will be duly noted and reported. We are exercising our right to assemble in peace and protest.

Finally, we are trying to get a member of the Linden family to attend. If anyone has connections, feel free to pass this request on to them.

I'm still in university at 9 am EST. And 9 pm is like 6 am here in germany.

EDIT: OOOH, it's EST, i had PST in my head...

EDIT2: OMG, that's even worse. 3 pm and 3 am (GMT+1).

I applaud the concept behind this and I certainly don't mean to take any steam out of the movement. But I do have to question: what good will it do?

LL might take note... but more than likely not. They have had people complaining for months, but they continue to flood the market with new L$ to non-paying users every week.

Now they have taken one step in the right direction-- they've stopped that for new users-- or have they? How would we know? ;D

If we want to stop the rapid devaluation of the L$, it would make more sense to put such efforts and funds to better use. Why not go for the cause of the disease rather than protesting the symptoms?

If you really want to make LL sit up and take notice, start a movement to get buyers to withdraw their sell orders from LindeX. It's a long shot... but if it works it will certainly light the fire.

I applaud the concept behind this and I certainly don't mean to take any steam out of the movement. But I do have to question: what good will it do?

LL might take note... but more than likely not. They have had people complaining for months, but they continue to flood the market with new L$ to non-paying users every week.

Now they have taken one step in the right direction-- they've stopped that for new users-- or have they? How would we know? ;D

If we want to stop the rapid devaluation of the L$, it would make more sense to put such efforts and funds to better use. Why not go for the cause of the disease rather than protesting a symptom?

Okay. Help me out. What time works best, on average, in Europe?

I'm gone doign something in the RW for awhile. I'll check back later.

You ask some interesting questions. I suggest that before we "burn" we discuss our best options. Please join us Wayfinder.

I'll try to make both meetings.

5 pm EST would work for me, but i'm not the average...

I believe it is best to keep the originally announced time schedule for now. We can always adjust it later depending on response and interest. We hope to see you at one of the parties or one in the future.

I still like your suggestion of forming a group. It would make it much easier to keep in touch.