Petition to stop the economic changes

Tread, no need to use CAPS.

The "above and beyond" you state is that gained by obtaining ratings. It's not that it's "extra". The system was designed that you get a base stipend, and you get additional funds determined by ratings.

And I reiterate: regardless of whether or not changing this is a good idea, 2 days notice is not sufficient for the community to discuss and test the impact three simultaneous changes to the SL economy.

Heh, sorry Hiro. I'm old-school: I was BBS'ing in the mid-80's at 300 baud! Back then we didn't have formatting codes like Bold or Italic. I still sometimes forget to use them.

And yeah, two days is short notice - but IMHO a longer notice would probably have just given people a longer time to get irate. I'm confident that if this screws things up, LL will change it to something better.

Oh - and a bonus is a bonus is a bonus. Its not an entitlement, no matter how/where/when it was 'designed'. There are plenty of bad designs in the real world, and everyone makes mistakes (yes, before you say it: Even LL. I'm not a mindless fan-boy; but as an industry veteran I just have faith that they would NOT do this on a whim)!

Take care,

--Noel "HB" Wade
(Tread Whiplash)

No worries. Welcome to HTML It's only been two decades in the making, heheh.


- OR -
They could do what they did with the teen grid. They could say, "We're considering patch XYZ, and we realize it could have an enormous impact on the community. We'd like your feedback so that we can make the best fix possible. We're currently thinking of doing ... [etc]"

And then people would not get irate, and instead they would feel included in the major decisions in SL. Things would be discussed, and a more ideal solution would be implemented on the first patch, not the third or fourth cleanup post-patch patch like what happened with 1.5


[sarcasm]Oh, that's comforting. [/sarcasm]
In the meantime, it has the potential to wreak some financial havoc on the community.


Unless the word choice wasn't precisely what they meant.
Remember, the English language can only be so precise. We've had the stipend system forever. It's been the rule. Something "extra" doesn't go on that long and doesn't become taken for granted. It ceases to be a bonus, de facto.

Hence, the expectation of the community is one way, and suddenly claiming that it's a bonus and not, in fact, something to be expected, is just playing around with the word "bonus" itself.

Verbal wrestling.

So, you're right, and yet there's a bigger picture to see.

Yup - and I've only been making my living with it for 9 years!

Seriously, though, I appreciate your faith in our fellow human-kind. After working in the industry, I have seen first-hand how few people are willing or capable of having intelligent, logical debates about things that may affect them.

I'm glad you're one of them, we'll just have to see where this goes from here! Don't forget to send battle-reports from the front lines; I'll be tuned to SL-CNN with my lazy butt reclining on some beach somewhere in-game, crafting away - 'cuz I'm a bum like that *grin*

Take care,

--Noel "HB" Wade
(Tread Whiplash)

Agreed.

And anytime LL has asked the community for advice, and the advice followed into patches, positive things have happened for SL.

As for giving reports, for now I'm just rebutting arguments on the forum during slow spells at work. Earlier I was enjoying sushi and "The Life Aquatic" with a good friend, so I haven't been in game.

Signed,
Nathan Klein

Mostly oldbies (and probable alts) say there are too many clubs and events which they not deemed to be worthy. You are not the arbiter of taste in SL. While there are people who want to go to the clubs, why should they not do so? Personally I don't go to clubs much at all, but that's my choice. Your longevity on SL does not mean you can speak for the rest of us.

You say that hosts of events should pay out of their own money - many don't have enough money to fund events day after day. So new people won't be hosting very much and there goes their way of making some sort of living.

The fact that there is inflation in SL is really only significant to those with wodges of cash who are not happy about the L$-US$ exchange rate. It doesn't affect the majority at all, but it is us who are being hit by these changes.

Some of us are learning skills and will contribute to SL but we need some time. The extra money would have allowed us to upload more textures for example, I have a large number ready to be uploaded but that will have to be curtailed.

I met someone in the Welcome Area today who said there should be no stipend for anyone, we should all learn to make clothes. This is totally unrealistic and not everyone wants to make clothes. And where would the sales go for those who make and sell them already? I then asked did she make clothes herself. She replied, you have no idea who I am. How silly to be full of such self importance.

I am either expecting no response or negative responses to this. Either is fine, I just wanted to talk about things from my perspective as a 1 month old newbie. By the way, I have met several oldbies here who have really been kind and I have learn much from them - so exclude them from this post

Alexa

ok here my 2 lindens on the whole economy thing. the truth is there will never really be a good steady economy in these kind of games. basicly because you got many who arent willing to work with it. and well no matter what there will always be someone who will find away around it and find a way to exploit it that is just how it goes in games.

the biggest problem is there really is no steady flow of imcome in the game. yeah you get your dwells if you own a place and you get your weekly bouns and all that good stuff. and well alot of people dont know how to create things or use basic programs needed to create things. the thing this game doesnt have which is strongly needed to realy stabilize and maintain a good flowing economy is a steady flow of income(and i dont mean linden's just handing you money to host events) i mean like jobs and stuff liek that. currently most people use the money they get from hosting events to pay people to work at there place. so taking that away for most is basicly taking away there finiacal means to pay others for there services. now yes im sure there are a people who pay with there own money but the majority pay through what they get for hosting events. so basicly the main supply of cash is comming from handouts by linden. yes some people create stuff and sell it and so forth but as i stated not everyone has that way of means. but if an actual steady working economy is what they are going for there needs to be a way to generate steady income for people of all levels. weather you own a place or not or can create the world or cant even create a clue.. how to make it happen who knows..

as far as the event thing i dont know maybe find a happy medium something kinda like only being allowed to get funding for one event you host a week or something like that..

ehh im tired im probably just speaking gibberish or something to many

You speak perfect sense Tad.

Alexa

No he doesn't. Particularly since this isnt a game.

It's going to be kind of funny, in a sad sort of way, when most or even all of the clubs and events fall apart and go under and the vast majority of the playerbase gradually gives up and leaves, leaving SL product-based businesses to flounder because there's nobody to sell to anymore, in turn driving them out of the game as well.

Of course, nobody will believe that could happen until it does. Geesh. I hope something happens to prevent that -- I'd like to have one of my predictions turn out wrong for a change. And SL's such a good game. Why do devs always have to try to fix things that aren't broken?

If Events stop, it is going to be a Domino effect. Like pebble dropped into a Pond, watch the ripples.

DoomSayer.... Your just hoping they do to justify your view point. Well, its wrong. Events won't stop, they will multiply because there is money to MAKE.... And Greed creates competition for those dollars. Which in turn leads to more, not less..

LOL! It's HIM AGAIN! Maybe I should start Roleplaying with you for entertainment since you enjoy that type of "Entertainment."

:: bows down to Alby's infinite wisdom

HEheheheh.... Only a few more minions to convert...
Cmon Blake, Hiro, Catherine.. Don't fight your fate. Heheheeh

You guys are still making the mistake of thinking that SL clubs and events have the same options open to them to make money that RL ones do. SL is not RL. SL clubs and events cannot sustain themselves in the same manner that RL clubs and events can. And whether you believe it now or not, the SL community begins and ends with those clubs and events, because without them, the majority of the playerbase will have nothing to do and will give up and leave.

And you can't sell products to people who aren't there.

There is a troll on this and many other threads who is so odious, arrogant, insulting, self-absorbed, self satisfied and greedy that I have decided to no longer read the posts written by this person.

Can someone tell me please if there is a way to block them out. Thank you.

Alexa

F**K Clubs.

Yes there is a way

Well can you tell me please how I can do this?

Alexa

Sure, go to the user CP. This link is found on the main Index page top leftish.
In your user CP go to buddy/ignore list.
Enter the name of the person in the ignore list and click accept or something.
Voila

OK guys let's do some theoretical math here (for my own sanity):

a club on a 4096sq m plot needs to make $15/month tier fee, which let's say equates to around L$3800 a month.

So in order for a club to be self-sustaining, they need to at least cover the tiering fee, plus any "employee salary" plus any prize money they give away. So let's say:

5 dancers/bouncers/event hosts @ L$100 per event each
L$200/event prize giveaway (conservatively)
5 events per week
4 weeks in a month

so that's (L$500/event for salary +L$200 prizes) x 5 x 4 = L$14,000
add in the tier charge of L$3800 and you get: L$17,800 total monthly operating expenses

Break even number of club visitors at $10/event cover charge would need to be:

20,000 monthly / 20 events = club needs to generate L$1000 per event, which would mean that you would need 100 visitors per event at that cover charge to break even.

So that means they have to either have more events, charge more at the door, get lots more people to show up, get money in donations/Linden support, or tier down to a cheaper smaller plot.

I have left out any income that Dwell might add, or Linden payouts.

Your thoughts on all this???

Arti

utter and total bullshit

I find it funny that someone thats been in the game a month at most knows exactly that without clubs were doomed......the majority of people don't hang out at clubs.

(Not just clubs but events in general.)

But okay ... what do they do, then, if you've got your finger on the pulse of the SL community?