An Observation and a Suggestion for the Mods
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Lynn Lippmann
Toe Jammer
Join date: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 793
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07-09-2005 10:44
Just one last observation. In my mind, dark humour included, does anyone else find the irony of the situation? Here we have one individual, who by her own words will not listen or consider the opinions of others and has her feet in hard and dried cement. She will NOT move one inch on this subject. IRONY: The exact same thing she has stated here (hardline-rules and no opinion-changing) and REFUSED to do are the *very* things that she's asking Linden Labs TO DO. She's asking them to listen, rethink their decision and change their mind about recent rules. The sweet and humourous irony. On a side note, and not off-topic to this thread: Does anyone have a cement texture that we could make some "forum boots" with? 
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They give us new smilies  but what about the TOES? Toe the line Linden's! Toes for the Toeless!
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Deklax Fairplay
Black Sun
Join date: 2 Jul 2004
Posts: 357
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07-09-2005 10:53
I'm just going to preface this post with a warning. I didn't read even a TENTH of the previous posts. From: Cienna Samiam Warnings didn't deter Prok either. We see what happened there. What does this mean? What happened to Prok. From: Catherine Cotton I cannot in good conscious continue to post to the LL forums.
I make this choice for my own person peace of mind, and not what is for the greater good. Simply locking a thread does not make the problem go away.
When we can safely talk about issues in an adult manner I will return to post. Could it really be true? Could it really?
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Better Dead Than Red!
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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07-09-2005 11:13
I said it before. With irony, my cup overfloweth.
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From: Hiro Pendragon Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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07-09-2005 11:14
From: Enabran Templar That was pretty much what I gleaned from the message as well. Yes, 'twas a kinder, gentler, "fuck your opinions!". See, the forums are changing after all.
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Cristiano ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more. 
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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07-09-2005 11:25
From: Lynn Lippmann Just one last observation. In my mind, dark humour included, does anyone else find the irony of the situation? Here we have one individual, who by her own words will not listen or consider the opinions of others and has her feet in hard and dried cement. She will NOT move one inch on this subject. IRONY: The exact same thing she has stated here (hardline-rules and no opinion-changing) and REFUSED to do are the *very* things that she's asking Linden Labs TO DO. She's asking them to listen, rethink their decision and change their mind about recent rules. The sweet and humourous irony. On a side note, and not off-topic to this thread: Does anyone have a cement texture that we could make some "forum boots" with? There is no sweet and humorous irony here. I started this thread, for the purposes of discussing this; I've read and considered every last thing anybody ever said in it - which you know, if you have read it carefully. I have modified one of the things (about personal attacks) as a result, and learned a couple of things for my own behavior (remember, some people HAVE been through the same thing; use asterisks). Now, you may not have noticed any of this going on - my back and forth with Cristiano over the "personal attacks" part, for instance, leading to its modification. But it has been going on. Remember, too, there are people reading who may not be posting. Your convincing me isn't the point. My convincing you isn't the point. The point is the discussion - the process - not only for us, but for those silently reading. That is why I had this thread instead of just throwing up the poll in the first place (or going straight to propositions). That's why I've stuck with it and exchanged ideas in it for 22 pages now. That's why the next step is the poll itself, and that not for a few days yet, to allow thinking time. These things are slow going precisely so that everyone can have their say and give them full airing and discussion. If you wish to portray me as some kind of hard-headed idiot, that is of course your right. But that is not the case. If you have failed to win me over to your view - for example, failed to convince me that typing forum behavior to eviction from the game itself is a good idea - that simply means you have failed to win me over to your view. coco |
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Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
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07-09-2005 11:36
From: Buster Peel Translation:
"My opinion matters. Yours doesn't." Not at all Buster, I just don't want to be ripped to shreads over an "opinion" if that means that I think outloud and to those not posting then so be it. Anything is better than more of the same. Your opinion matters to me too. cat |
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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07-09-2005 11:40
From: Cristiano Midnight Yes, 'twas a kinder, gentler, "fuck your opinions!". See, the forums are changing after all. Yeah, I couldn't quite put my finger on what was making this seem so familiar.
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From: Hiro Pendragon Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.
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Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
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07-09-2005 11:43
Deklax Fairplay's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 355
I'm just going to preface this post with a warning. I didn't read even a TENTH of the previous posts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cienna Samiam
Warnings didn't deter Prok either. We see what happened there.
What does this mean? What happened to Prok.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catherine Cotton
I cannot in good conscious continue to post to the LL forums.
I make this choice for my own person peace of mind, and not what is for the greater good. Simply locking a thread does not make the problem go away.
When we can safely talk about issues in an adult manner I will return to post.
Could it really be true? Could it really?
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I would of been happy to answer you if your last comment wasn't so snide. Read the % you missed for the answers to your questions. Not to be rude or anything but I have about taken all the crap I'm gonna and if that means I no longer answer snide posts then thats what I need to do.
cat
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Deklax Fairplay
Black Sun
Join date: 2 Jul 2004
Posts: 357
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07-09-2005 11:50
huh?
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Better Dead Than Red!
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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07-09-2005 11:51
From: Catherine Cotton Not at all Buster, I just don't want to be ripped to shreads over an "opinion" if that means that I think outloud and to those not posting then so be it. Anything is better than more of the same. Your opinion matters to me too.
cat You can't shirk responsibility for stating an opinion. If you don't want to be accountable for what you say, you shouldn't say it.
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From: Hiro Pendragon Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.
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Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
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07-09-2005 11:53
From: Enabran Templar You can't shirk responsibility for stating an opinion. If you don't want to be accountable for what you say, you shouldn't say it. I choose not give them the ammo to blow my fricken head off with. Cat |
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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07-09-2005 11:58
From: Catherine Cotton I choose not give them the ammo to blow my fricken head off with.
Cat You're handing it out in buckets.
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From: Hiro Pendragon Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.
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Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
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07-09-2005 12:01
From: Enabran Templar You're handing it out in buckets. Thanks I appreciate that snide remark. |
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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07-09-2005 12:04
From: Catherine Cotton Thanks I appreciate that snide remark. I'm not being snide. You say you don't want to give ammunition to those who disagree with you, yet you taunt the same people by making remarks that you intend to be unanswerable. You really expect that sort of thing to be left alone? Additionally, were it a weekday, I'd expect Jeska to drop the hammer on this thread right about now. It being the weekend, though, LL's attention to the forum is a bit of an x factor. Soon, in any case.
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From: Hiro Pendragon Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.
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Jake Reitveld
Emperor of Second Life
Join date: 9 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,690
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07-09-2005 12:17
The pack, it seems, has spoken. Akela the leader must now send Cat and Coco out of the circle for have opinions the pack has deemed excessively whiny. The pack has arrived at this decision after many of its well reasoned and sagacious members came to thier own conclusions about the whining nature of of Cat's and Coco's posts. We must therefore antagonozethem more until the goddess closes the thread, so we may continue to attack them for bing just like prokofy in other threads, after all we don't argue with tyhe substance of thier discussion, we just do not like the manner in which they were presented. If they could just express their opinions about our behavior in such a way as to not make us offended, then we would appily include them.
AAAHHWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
As I have always said it takes two to tango, and the forums aren't getting any nicer. Prokofy was never the cause of the problem, simply the focus. As long as we continue to snipe at the people we don't agree with, the Forums will remain the same. Sometimes you just have to let it go. Very often sinlence is the easiest way to kill an offensive post
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ALCHEMY -clothes for men.
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April Firefly
Idiosyncratic Poster
Join date: 3 Aug 2004
Posts: 1,253
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07-09-2005 12:30
From: Jake Reitveld The pack, it seems, has spoken. Akela the leader must now send Cat and Coco out of the circle for have opinions the pack has deemed excessively whiny. The pack has arrived at this decision after many of its well reasoned and sagacious members came to thier own conclusions about the whining nature of of Cat's and Coco's posts. We must therefore antagonozethem more until the goddess closes the thread, so we may continue to attack them for bing just like prokofy in other threads, after all we don't argue with tyhe substance of thier discussion, we just do not like the manner in which they were presented. If they could just express their opinions about our behavior in such a way as to not make us offended, then we would appily include them.
AAAHHWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
As I have always said it takes two to tango, and the forums aren't getting any nicer. Prokofy was never the cause of the problem, simply the focus. As long as we continue to snipe at the people we don't agree with, the Forums will remain the same. Sometimes you just have to let it go. Very often sinlence is the easiest way to kill an offensive post I'm sorry did I miss something. It was Cat that told me to not respond. Was that fair? And yes the forums are better. This thread is evident. No one has said anything nearing what others have said in the past.
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From: Billybob Goodliffe the truth is overrated  From: Argent Stonecutter The most successful software company in the world does a piss-poor job on all these points. Particularly the first three. Why do you expect Linden Labs to do any better? Yes, it's true, I have a blog now!
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April Firefly
Idiosyncratic Poster
Join date: 3 Aug 2004
Posts: 1,253
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07-09-2005 12:31
From: Jake Reitveld The pack, it seems, has spoken. Akela the leader must now send Cat and Coco out of the circle for have opinions the pack has deemed excessively whiny. The pack has arrived at this decision after many of its well reasoned and sagacious members came to thier own conclusions about the whining nature of of Cat's and Coco's posts. We must therefore antagonozethem more until the goddess closes the thread, so we may continue to attack them for bing just like prokofy in other threads, after all we don't argue with tyhe substance of thier discussion, we just do not like the manner in which they were presented. If they could just express their opinions about our behavior in such a way as to not make us offended, then we would appily include them.
AAAHHWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
As I have always said it takes two to tango, and the forums aren't getting any nicer. Prokofy was never the cause of the problem, simply the focus. As long as we continue to snipe at the people we don't agree with, the Forums will remain the same. Sometimes you just have to let it go. Very often sinlence is the easiest way to kill an offensive post I'm sorry did I miss something. It was Cat that told me to not respond. Cat's post also stated that restating the same thing was wrong. It seemed to me her post was aimed at Coco and me. Was that fair? And yes the forums are better. This thread is evident. No one has said anything nearing what others have said in the past.
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From: Billybob Goodliffe the truth is overrated From: Argent Stonecutter The most successful software company in the world does a piss-poor job on all these points. Particularly the first three. Why do you expect Linden Labs to do any better? Yes, it's true, I have a blog now!
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April Firefly
Idiosyncratic Poster
Join date: 3 Aug 2004
Posts: 1,253
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07-09-2005 12:37
From: Cocoanut Koala There is no sweet and humorous irony here.
I started this thread, for the purposes of discussing this; I've read and considered every last thing anybody ever said in it - which you know, if you have read it carefully. I have modified one of the things (about personal attacks) as a result, and learned a couple of things for my own behavior (remember, some people HAVE been through the same thing; use asterisks).
Now, you may not have noticed any of this going on - my back and forth with Cristiano over the "personal attacks" part, for instance, leading to its modification. But it has been going on. Remember, too, there are people reading who may not be posting. Your convincing me isn't the point. My convincing you isn't the point. The point is the discussion - the process - not only for us, but for those silently reading.
That is why I had this thread instead of just throwing up the poll in the first place (or going straight to propositions). That's why I've stuck with it and exchanged ideas in it for 22 pages now. That's why the next step is the poll itself, and that not for a few days yet, to allow thinking time. These things are slow going precisely so that everyone can have their say and give them full airing and discussion.
If you wish to portray me as some kind of hard-headed idiot, that is of course your right. But that is not the case. If you have failed to win me over to your view - for example, failed to convince me that typing forum behavior to eviction from the game itself is a good idea - that simply means you have failed to win me over to your view.
coco /hugs Coco! Honey the comment wasn't aimed at you. I'm sorry you got caught up in this. The post was about Cat telling me not to post. I know you said before that you don't always read Cat's post, like the long Bully one. So I'll cut and paste for you. From: Catherine Cotton *wonders how many times the same questions will be asked and answered?
*wonders if anyone has anything new to add?
*wonders if these folks are finished stating their views so new ppl can post to this thread?
*This is getting old fast, round and round and round they go adding nothing postive to this thread.
Just thinking outloud no need to reply.
Cat Then I tried to defend your right to restate the issues as much as you want: From: April Firefly Cat, I'm sorry but I have to stick up for Coco on this one, but if you can continue to post, why can't others? What is stopping new people from posting?
I think free speech entails every to post. I believe Coco and the others have the right to restate their views if they feel like it. Saying Coco shouldn't restate her views is one of the reasons she sometimes feels she's being attacked. Please be nice to Coco and don't tell her not ask the same questions and say the same things if she feels like it. She has the right. And then Cat pointed out that she didn't want a response: From: Catherine Cotton "Just thinking outloud no need to reply. " And I pointed out that I felt a response was necessary: From: April Firefly Yes Catherine, I saw that part. I'm sorry but I felt compelled to respond, which is still my right under free speech. I'm sorry if I'm bothering you or doing something wrong.
**Just trying to be fair to everyone. Can we all be nice today?** So you see the comments that came after these statements were about the above and had nothing to do with you honey. Please relax, I hate to see you so upset. Hugssss
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From: Billybob Goodliffe the truth is overrated From: Argent Stonecutter The most successful software company in the world does a piss-poor job on all these points. Particularly the first three. Why do you expect Linden Labs to do any better? Yes, it's true, I have a blog now!
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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07-09-2005 12:41
From: April Firefly And yes the forums are better. This thread is evident. No one has said anything nearing what others have said in the past. That doesn't matter. Forum victimology requires that someone be villified, even if only for responding with rational questions. No matter how civil, when a discussion surrounds a contentious issue, artificial persecution will be generated as a cudgel with which to smash those who are impervious to the irrational. Then it becomes not a debate for the most rational argument, not a discussion of reasoned alternatives and viewpoints, but a contest for having the thinnest skin and the most sensitive feelings.
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From: Hiro Pendragon Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.
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April Firefly
Idiosyncratic Poster
Join date: 3 Aug 2004
Posts: 1,253
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07-09-2005 12:50
From: Enabran Templar That doesn't matter. Forum victimology requires that someone be villified, even if only for responding with rational questions. No matter how civil, when a discussion surrounds a contentious issue, artificial persecution will be generated as a cudgel with which to smash those who are impervious to the irrational. Then it becomes not a debate for the most rational argument, not a discussion of reasoned alternatives and viewpoints, but a contest for having the thinnest skin and the most sensitive feelings. I don't know if that's all true or not. A lot of things are subjective. But I am trying to offer support to those who need it. I know that sounds silly but it can't hurt.
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From: Billybob Goodliffe the truth is overrated From: Argent Stonecutter The most successful software company in the world does a piss-poor job on all these points. Particularly the first three. Why do you expect Linden Labs to do any better? Yes, it's true, I have a blog now!
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Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
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07-09-2005 12:57
From: Enabran Templar I'm not being snide. You say you don't want to give ammunition to those who disagree with you, yet you taunt the same people by making remarks that you intend to be unanswerable. You really expect that sort of thing to be left alone?
Additionally, were it a weekday, I'd expect Jeska to drop the hammer on this thread right about now. It being the weekend, though, LL's attention to the forum is a bit of an x factor. Soon, in any case. I expect ppl to leave ME alone yes. Attack the "opinion" NOT the "person". What ever I have to do to PROTECT the PERSON I will do. It's called self preservation. Nope I don't have a problem with that. Question is why do so many ppl have a problem understanding the difference. So have a nice day ok  Cat |
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Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
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07-09-2005 13:00
From: Enabran Templar That doesn't matter. Forum victimology requires that someone be villified, even if only for responding with rational questions. No matter how civil, when a discussion surrounds a contentious issue, artificial persecution will be generated as a cudgel with which to smash those who are impervious to the irrational. Then it becomes not a debate for the most rational argument, not a discussion of reasoned alternatives and viewpoints, but a contest for having the thinnest skin and the most sensitive feelings. Oh I definalty see someone playing the "victim" card these days but it isn't me Be your own judge, I dont have an opinion. Baaaa Cat |
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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07-09-2005 13:00
From: Catherine Cotton I expect ppl to leave ME alone yes. Attack the "opinion" NOT the "person". What ever I have to do to PROTECT the PERSON I will do. It's called self preservation. Nope I don't have a problem with that. Question is why do so many ppl have a problem understanding the difference. So have a nice day ok Cat The difference is that a person, you, is declaring the opinion unanswerable. Your opinion didn't say that you weren't to be answered, you said it. You can't expect to behave poorly and then hide from the results.
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From: Hiro Pendragon Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.
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Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
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07-09-2005 13:01
From: Enabran Templar The difference is that a person, you, is declaring the opinion unanswerable. Your opinion didn't say that you weren't to be answered, you said it. You can't expect to behave poorly and then hide from the results. huh? he said that she said that she was kinda sorta like that you know what i mean? if not nvm. |
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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07-09-2005 13:01
From: Catherine Cotton Be your own judge, I dont have an opinion. Baaaa
Cat You've spent the entire thread declaring an opinion.
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From: Hiro Pendragon Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.
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