Insanity

I did too, but sadly its not looking like anything will be done about it today or tomorrow.

If you dont want your IP known to other SL users, then you better disable music streaming. When I stream music to my land using Shoutcast, the IP of every listener I have gets displayed on my monitor.

That's right, all you have to do to get anyone's IP in SL is stream some music into SL and have them hear the music. That's the way it works...I bet streaming video produces the same info. I am not going to stop streaming music so if anyone does not want to risk this then don't listen. If you dont like the system, too bad, that's the way it is.

An IP address is the way things work on the internet. Instead of making accusations about those who legitimately receve the IP information, take steps to protect yourself against suspected abuse. Ever hear of a firewall? Or better yet, pull the plug.

Cristiano is beyond reproach on this and the accusations made, even the suggestions of impropriety, are out of line.

Very interesting read - can't believe I made it to the end.

You know, when we talk about our security concerns we can talk from our fear and/or what we think can happen to us, or we can talk from our experience of what has happened to us here in SL and how we dealt with things, especially painful experiences involving other members.

During my VERTU days, the group had our our private group forum hosted at Cris's web site and believe me a lot of sensitive information concerning RL/SL stuff (people, organizations, US$ changing hands, etc.) was discussed, decided and acted on within that forum. Bhodi, the Founder of VERTU would NOT have agreed to Chris's site if she had any concerns about his professionalism or his honesty, and that was good enough for me. It remains so today.

As many know, Cris and I were not friends for a long time, but at no time did it concern me that he had information about me, my IP addy, etc. Even in the early SLEx promotion days, when Cris, Blaze, and some others loved to call me a SPAMER, and worse (unnamed others) and seemed to take me to task for lots of stuff I/we (my former business partner) were doing - I never had any concerns about the security of my personal info. Even when I was locked out of SLExch, expelled out of Exchange Street business account, and other awful stuff - I never had any concerns about Apo having tons of personal information on me. Does this surprise anyone? Even when trust was violated, I still knew my net security was not going to be violated.

The reason why I didn't worry about either of these two guys having my personal information, one of whom clearly had harmed me personally - was and is that they are both IT professionals and they both know the workins of the Net. We all make our livings (in my case, as a non-tech web-business owner) on the net, and thus we know and follow the law, and accepted use practices and ethics.

I say either take Cris at his word about his honesty, or STFU and move on to some real issues.

that simply MUST hurt.

Until Pathfinder adds another rule about debating the IP security of SecondLife 3rd party resources, I'm going to assume this is fair game.

Truth often does

Well said.



This thread wins my "Best of 2005" award... definately.

Au contraire fair Merwan my friend. Read this little gem /120/e0/44119/1.html

Merwan said:



I actually think this is the crux of the problem. People around here don't think alt privacy is worth it.

They don't see the value in taking on alternate roles and risking all to either succeed or fail with them.

It's an interesting question. Are the nature of ALTs eating away at the fabric of a cohesiveness that is required for SL to succeed? Or do ALTs provide a type of raison d'etre for the existence of SL?

I guess if you strongly come down one side of the argument than you'll probably come down pretty strong on privacy and IP security.

I guess this is why I have strong opinions about this.

This is about libel. No one has said we shouldn't be discussing IP security and how it relates to 3rd party SL sites.

If you're going to try to divert attention away from the fact that this is now about Prokofy blatantly libeling Cris and his site, and to a lesser degree your own insinuations, you're going to have to come up with something better than that.

awww yes, how soon we forget

I waaaaay beat you to it!

Alts - and the players that rely on them either for griefing or money making are in for a BIG shock soon watch this space because Linden Labs finally got tired of it.

That is just Prok's paranoia talking, Cris. Take it with a grain of salt.

Yeah i made a couple posts there.
But I still had a weird feeling about that thread - probably just me.

Lecktor drop by 3 Word Reborn - everyone misses you!

I don't think so. I think LL will set up a friendster type functionality situation and we will get to know each other based on our reputation with our network of friends.

Why do you think differently?

Blaze,

It is fine for you to disagree, and I took no issue with that. However, you did skate very close to libel many times - had you gone a bit further I would have on issue with pursuing legal action against you. Let me illustrate:





Most of this has been about Prokofy's clearly libelous statement that I have used Prokofy's IP address to find the location of their home/business and track them on the Internet. He went further to also claim that I was tracking the IP of anyone who submitted a picture to Snapzilla and could use them for Google witch hunts.

I am not going to roll over and play dead on Prokofy making these statements, and with how close you came to doing the same, I would advise you to watch what you do say. You can certainly discuss issues, but when you start implying that I am doing something, you cross a line and I have no problem pushing you right back over.

Rational? Uhm, yeah...okay.

I don't think that is illegal though. At least not in SL, and NY State isn't gonna really care.

Yawn.

I am glad it is a yawn to you Blaze. What a stupid response. I at least respond to things you have said, and consider them - that was just rude and dismissive.

Well, why wait? Hurry to "support@lindenlab.com" that might work. You'll get nowhere with this.

Because I didn't lie, and I didn't do anything wrong.

I asked what you are doing capturing these numbers. BTW, some people call them "Internet Provider" or IP numbers and some call them "Internet Service Provider" numbers -- ISP -- which sometimes through a typo gets transposed to IPS -- but so what? We all know what we mean -- the numbered address that shows the computer terminal and service provider we use to log on to the Internet and in to a game.

And yes, some people might decode those letters to mean "Internet Protocol" or whatever the hell they want it to mean. There is tekkie usage, and common people's usage -- but who the hell cares? Call them cream cheese -- just explain why you grab them.

I'm still waiting for Cristiano to explain why he needs to capture and store these numbers. He's bragged that he has done it.

I didn't "slander" his website by making wild-assed accusations. I pointed out that a vulnerability to any user coming to his site is that Cristiano can track their IPS number, link them to RL, link them to avs in the game, and violate their privacy. He, as someone concerned about privacy (ostensibly) could merely dispel these concerns by saying:

"I record IPS numbers simply because I can. I don't have to explain why. But you can be assured that I won't misuse this information to harass you in RL or in the game."

Well, he couldn't bring himself to say that kind of public service announcement, could he?

Instead, he had to embark on a hysterical and hate-filled campaign to accuse me of lying, accuse me of hate-mongering and the usual blah-blah-blah when it is he who is doing this.

These are important issues. I'd like third parties who grab our personal information in the course of relating to this game to step up to the plate and tell us what the hell they are doing with that information. That is my right as a consumer.

I realize "consumers' rights" are utterly alien to some of the content kings in this game but it's high time that a consumers' rights movement really got going in this game -- high time!

Just because IP or ISP numbers are grabbed all over the Internet with cookie enabling etc doesn't mean that in this game, in this place, with these endeavors, it is ok to grab it and use it for unspecified purposes.

Until I hear an assurance to the contrary, I'm right to assume that these numbers are grabbed and stored to enable your enemies in the game, who hate your views or compete with you in business, to track you to RL and intimidate you, or "out" your alts.


I'm not paranoid to raise these questions. I'm normal and practical. What's not normal is the incestuous little cabal you have gotten into here for these years in your beta-test-love-fest such that you've utterly lost track of the values most people have for privacy, fairness, and protection from harassment.

I dont THINK differently

I'm sorry, I've seen a million armchair lawyers threatening to call daddy (aka government) on someone if they didn't do as they pleased.

The most this ever evokes from me is a yawn.

Um, ths is a misportrayal of my statement.

I stated this was a possibility that could be done by you as a grabber of IP numbers. Those using Snapzilla must be aware that you are grabbing their numbers.

So please state what you do with the numbers, why you need to collect and store them, and what assurances users have that you do not use them to track people in RL, i.e. keeping tabs on them in the event you need to pressure them possibly, or sell their information, and also what assurances we have that you are not "outing" alts.

Outing alts is against the TOS.

Disclosure of RL information not on the SL profile is against the TOS.

Grabbing personal information not on the SL profile is against the TOS.

So I'd like Cristiano to explain how what he does is NOT a TOS violation, and what steps he has taken to ensure that it does not *become* a TOS violation.