Are you looking forward to Forum reforms?

April, I'm not attacking anyone by proposing forum reforms.

You might as well say I "pushed people" in the grocery store because I suggested they extend their hours and move the lemons up to the front.

Or the school because I stand up in the PTA and say we need the dress code to outlaw tank tops.

Or anything like that!

coco

sorry, Aimee. I am again with the you's. I could have sworn that I said, "you all" (which itself should have been, "some of you" but I see I didn't. I can't work with people who, when somebody says the things that were said to me, everyone says, "What elephant in the living room?"

Sorry for sounding like I was talking directly to you.

Moreover, Aimee, I didn't start this dang thread.

coco

When someone else posts something, you seem to want to decide if its an attack or not - En's posts, for example.

But somoene can't find something you post an attach?

Yeah, it's been said before...

If I were working in the store and didn't want to have the hours made later, so I would say miss my bus.

Or if I was poor and my kids couldn't afford uniforms.

In this case you are trying to change the forum policy in a way that will force me off of the forums.

Please don't change the current policy.

__________________________
"To announce that there must be no criticism of
the president, or that we are to stand by the
president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and
servile, but is morally treasonable to the
American public."
--Theodore Roosevelt

April, I absolutely don't see how the reforms I propose could possibly have the outcome of forcing you off the forums.

coco

No, Cocoanut, what you are doing is trying to limit speech that you don't like, and force everyone to follow the same behavior. As I said before, Enabran's statements are hardly personal attacks. They are opinion that you are free to dispute - but he has every right to say them, just as you have ever right to counter them. You are not guaranteed that no one will ever have a harsh word for you. No wonder you think everything ever said to you has somehow been an attack on you.

What is chilling is your proposition that you are saying he shouldn't be able to say those things at all, no matter how innocuous. You do not get to police speech - no one has that right, except Linden Lab in their forums, and they have set their policy. For you to attempt to make it more limited is an attack on the freedoms that others enjoy. Please don't hide behind simple analogies like changing store hours. You are not doing something honorable, you are simply trying to force everyone to share your sense of right and wrong - and to be punished if they don't.

I'm sorry I thought I went over this in a previous post. The new policy has made the forums safer for me.

Prior the new policy change, I was harrassed and tormented.

The change came and nothing of the sort has happened.

If what you propose, separating the boards from in-world banning, happens, I believe the boards will go back to the way they were before.

The things you denounce as being hideous are mild compared to the treatment meted out in the past, in my opinion.

If the policy is reversed, I will no longer be safe on the boards and I will not be able to post.

Just look at my post count. Over 2/3 of the post were made after the policy change.

Please do not change this policy.

Who thinks these words and phrases are ok?

"your mentally ill"
"fuck you"
"your ignorant"
"your wrong"


The problem being none of the above applied to any opinion. They were personal statements meant to inflict a negative reaction from the the person they are applied to.

There is absolutly nothing wrong with stating an opinion, its when we make it personal claiming "that's just my opinion of YOU" thats when we degrade these forums.

When we degrade the forums we go down a very slippery slope, yet this is considered free speech also. "Police ourselves", I am all for it. However unless everyone polices themselves it won't mean a shits bit of difference.

Coco doesn't want ANYONE in these forums to lose what they have IW because of a stupid remark made in the heat of an arguement. How can anyone be against such a thing?

Free speech is fine but how many of you walk up to a cop in real life and proclaim "fuck you moron" If you wouldn't do it in RL then you shouldn't do it here.

I get your point Coco maybe others will as well, dunno.

Cat

PS you know all LL has to do is say the forums are now considered PG hmmmm

Cat, the only time lately that I've seen those words really used is when you use them.

Please don't take this as an attack, but it's one of my pet peeves: I think you mean to say "you're" or "you are" . Your is possessive and indicates something that belongs to someone.

If my memory serves me correctly, no one has made those comments here.

And if they had, according to Coco, it was probably because someone pushed them into saying it.

As for some of those comments, you are wrong is not an attack. It could be written, I think you are wrong, that would be the nice way. But if saying someone is wrong is an attack, then we would all be guilty of it.

You are ignorant of the facts is also not an attack.

If these things do bother, use the report button or the ignore.

It seems to me that the proposed policy changes, unlinking the website from the game, would only increase these attacks, not decrease them.

From: Seth Kanahoe

Thank you for spewing sense into this thread.

There are some people in this world who just cannot be content unless they are foisting their opinions on someone who is unwilling to support them. Most such individuals are safely restrained by culture and the social machine; which, as a whole, tends to respond to such intent to dominate others with humor, satire, insult, a refusal to extend credibility with the social group, or shunning (depending upon severity).

On occasion, an individual of such bent is charismatic enough to sway people to support their domination of others.... on rare occasion, to the point where entire wars are fought over the ideology that one is 'justified' in forcing their opinions or beliefs on others if they can get more people to verbally agree/support them than not.

Personally, I do not see this 'forum reform issue' as an issue. Frankly, I think the people lobbying it as such WISH it were an issue... and hope that if they talk long enough, it will magically become one. Certainly they have gone to pretty extreme lengths to attempt to prop it up as an issue. Fortunately, this has failed on most counts, because the only people who support the lobbying effort are those who have rather dismal records of practicing what they preach, hence the social group as a general whole finds them discredited and whatever they support cannot gain enough support within the social grouping to do more than flounder rather pathetically.

As many have said, if there is an issue, it lies with those who seem to think everyone is somehow magically obliged to act as others here wish them to.... while, back in reality, it is known and agreed that the only obligation on the part of any member of this social group is to act as Linden Labs wishes us to.... as usual, Linden Labs is much better suited to deciding what that entails than any of us.... even those who are just absolutely certain they know best.

April, I think the person you feel was harrassing and tormenting you is gone, no matter what happens on the forums.

coco

April I hope the forums continue to be good like they have been for the last week ( that i have noticed any changes) I realy do. I am not a huge fan of big brother watching my every move. I will be the first to admit I'm a tad jaded from the forum history. It's the main reason I'm not posting as much as I usualy do.


Welp I view the examples I gave as direct attacks. You don't. Ok we understand that about each other now and that's kewl I hope.

I see your points clearly.

I have used the tools available and they have helped

As for my use of offensive words I don't use them in rl and I didn't always use them in the fourms. Odd how things like a forum can change a person.

Anyways I dig that you stand by your convictions

Cat

I don't think it's helpful to focus on individuals but rather the policy itself.

All I do know is that since the new policy has taken effect, I have felt free to post and enjoy the message board.

I believe this is a direct consequence of the new policy.

I also feel that if the policy was changed, it would allow others to follow suit in the previous behavior.

What I don't understand is that you have stated people have behaved hideously. If the policy changes, wouldn't logic dictate they would behave even worse?

If not, then there's no need to change the policy.

Decreasing the penalty will not make people behave better, it will make them behave worse. If there are problems on the message boards, as you say, the only solution would be to make the penalty harsher, not lighter.

Please, I am begging you, do not change the policy or I will no longer feel safe posting on this message board.

From: Seth Kanahoe

Thank you for spewing sense into this thread.

Well, you may be right, April. But I don't think it's anything to worry about, judging by the responses I have gotten from some of the posters.

coco

"your mentally ill" - Kosher, if not exactly polite, if expressed as an opinion. No matter how "uncool" it is to say it.

"fuck you" - Not generally OK.

"your ignorant" - Absolutely, 100% fine.

"your wrong" - Absolutely, 100% fine.

Because this is *not* going to happen. It is going to take several warnings, suspensions, reviews, and such *before* a person would ever get to the point of being banned. And after that much forwarning, anyone that finally does get banned, will certainly not be someone that deserves to share any part of this community.



This and more can be found in the original announcement:
/3/ae/50540/1.html

Give up, Pen. The hysteria brigade is in full froth and nothing like reality will sway them.

It should not be assumed that those people who choose not to enter a never ending thread of the same posters stating their hard held positions over and over and over again can be counted as being in agreement with your mindset.

The same could be said for any mindset - there will be those reading who feel exactly the way most of the posters do, and some who do not. Ultimately the only person whose mindset and opinion we can speak to is our own.

Just a quick update, April's question regarding the policy of issuing diciplinary action against users for disagreeing with the majority was answered by Robin.

/invalid_link.html



This would imply that it was actually a TOS/CS violation that earned Catherine her warning rather than disagreeing with the majority. But then, who are we going to believe, Robin? Or Catherine?

answering his own questions again ?

Blah Blah Blah zerofun Blah Blah Blah

You are assuming I am assuming. You don't know what is going on in my head, you never asked me. But I guess you made a fairly reasonable judgement based on what you read in the forums. I guess that's fair.

Without accurate polling data the only way I can determine the will of the general public is from what I see. It's all any of us can do. The decision to assume is upon each of us and we accept the risks in doing so.

I don't have a statistically significant sample to make a mathematically accurate assessment about how many people would like to revert back to the policy of separating forum dicipline and in-world dicipline. But I am comfortable enough in my assumption where I would bet money on how a fair vote would turn out.

I can agree with you about the first three, but not the last one. Telling someone "you're wrong" is not a personal attack. Are you honestly suggesting that disagreeing with someone should not be okay? If someone makes a statement as fact that you know to be incorrect and you call them on it, there's nothing wrong with that. If someone gives an opinion that you believe to be poorly reasoned or illogical and you point that out, there's nothing wrong with that either. Some people just have an incredible inability to handle being disagreed with. In my opinion, that has far more to do with that individual's dysfunction than with forum dysfunction. If there were no differing opinions, there would be no point in discussing anything... ever.

Abso-friggin-lutely. Which was my point. Sorry if I didn't make it clear. I guess I'll have to post it every which way from here to tomorrow to make myself understood.