Are you looking forward to Forum reforms?

I think this is way too nebulous for me to form an opinion about. Which is unfortunate, because if LL really warned you about disagreeing with majority opinion in these forums or inworld, then I think that's an issue. I can also see that if you try to communicate the specifics in a convincing way to the rest of us, there's a possibility that LL might come down on you for violating ToS and CS implications. And that's troublesome.

(It's one of the reasons why I agree with Ulrika that there needs to be a stronger and clearer "user rights and privileges" code, whatever the corporate status of the SL product.)

Might it be that LL cited you for starting threads they claim were deliberately designed to create personal drama, not through content or opinion, but in the way in which content and opinion was expressed? - kinda like the methods of the Eternally Banished One. In other words, the warning was for the method of your presentation and the way you defended your opinion, not for your actual opinion or content.

Actually, I was involved in a couple of cases in the last year where exactly this sort of thing occurred. One case involved intimidation by local town authorities, including the police, against a woman who displayed a pro-choice sticker on her car. The other case involved a woman who ran a sexual crimes response team on a university campus and was targeted by university authorities and campus police when she spilled the beans on sexual crimes statistics and their meanings. Both involved traffic stops. In both cases, it was demonstrated beyond doubt that the women had been targeted by police as part of a campaign by higher authorities to harrass them and destroy their lives.

Institutions, governments, and corporations do this kind of thing with surprising regularity. I have no idea what happened in Catherine Cotton's case. And of course, it's nothing as serious as what I've described. But I'd try to keep an open mind.

Because prokofys actions, no matter how bad, did not justify the conduct. As you said, he did it if first is not an excuse. Prokofy has paid his price for his actions, and I have never ever contested that. I have repeatedly stated that I understand why the decision was made to ban prokofy. I simply think that he is not the only one who crossed the line and I have always called for adult behavior and equal treatment. I could be wrong but I saw an aweful lot of personal attacks around Prokofy's posts, and yet he was the only one banned. to me this seems like he was banned for being unpopular, where as others were not so much as suspended.

I still and always will, condemn the vocal shunning as a damned poor show. And beneath us all.

As far as I am concerened much of the rancor in these forums is caused as a result of a group effort. You mistake me if you think I have not read, or somehow am not aware of Prokofy's conduct. I simply think that its time for all of us, as a community to put an effort into policing ourselves and elevating the standards of behavior.

I agree. In all aspects.

But for the most part, we have been doing that since the new policy has come to be. Is it the new policy that is the driving force, or coincidence, I don't know. But either way, I am feeling more comfortable in the forums.

I can only speak for myself. If you look over my interactions in the past, I did nothing to warrant banning or the treatment I received. I did not participate in any group thing. As I've said before, those that did were still acting as individuals and need to be addressed as such.

I also think we need to move forward. We are spending too much time in the past.

The new forum policy is fine. It doesn't need to be changed. We need to drop this whole thing and just be productive and play the game.

A proud member of PIC = Pudding Inner Core
__________________

Exactly. So why then is Cocoa now claiming that people who "can't control themselves", or who are provoked, (picked on, bullied, whatever) should get some kind of leniency, and using them as an excuse why the forum/world ban consequence should be lifted? If Prokofy's actions did not justify the reactions/attacks, then no one's do. If those who Prokofy provoked get no pass for their reactions, then why should anyone? They shouldn't, and that's my point.

I fail to see how she can suggest we give some a pass for lashing out when picked on, when she's condemned those very actions in others. Bullying either justifies attack or it doesn't. I say it doesn't.

How exactly is it that you can speak to Ardith's intent, or the intent of anyone else who put Prokofy on ignore? That is overreaching and simply your biased opinion of their intent. When people still quoted his voluminous posts, it made them impossible to completely ignore Prokofy (a major flaw in quoting features, I might add). In fact, it was while on ignore that I saw Prokofy's posts about me quoted that led me to respond to him.

I didn't take part in "the shunning", I already had Prokofy on ignore for awhile, just as I do with Catherine now. Yet again, I still see her posts quoted and see the things she has said. Putting someone on ignore is hardly humiliating - especially when you are dealing with people who clearly state that what you have to say doesn't matter to them at all to begin with (."fuck your opinions".

You know why people get into these big roiling firestorms on the forums? People are fine at policing themselves. Linden Lab is responsible for policing everyone who isn't you. This must be acknowledged. The mommy mentality is what sets people off. The forums were fine for something like two weeks. And then this happened...



If you don't feel comfortable with the tone of a post, click your little triangle icon and leave a message to the moderator explaining why. Alternatively, you can do what the quoted poster did. Just don't be surprised when your esteem falls like a rock in the eyes of the children you think you're going to corral.

"If you don't feel comfortable with the tone of a post, click your little triangle icon and leave a message to the moderator explaining why."

You are right, Enabran. Not about the corraling children part, but about the above. If I had done that instead, this whole thread might not have gone on as it has.

And indeed, I have overlooked literally hundreds of other such comments in the past, both here and on other forums. Chalk it up, perhaps, to my overall mood regarding this thread in the first place.

coco

P.S. Enabran, I also didn't get around to telling you earlier that I, too, have thought of the fact that the Lindens may not want to kill forum drama at all, and for the same reason you did.

And, by the way - I think you need to get a life.

With irony, my cup overfloweth!

Cocoanut! Hurry up with your forum reform so we can put an end to personal attacks like these!

When is my spanking happening?

Indeed. I shall enjoy using her quote in the future.

ASAP

get a room, kids!

Do you have any land that I can buy?

no

but i will give you ingrid if you give me your land.

How exactly is this not a personal attack? Not that I care that you said it, because I am not the one so worried about people being mean - but if you don't practice what in the hell you preach, I would imagine that makes you a hypocrite.

And wake up to this every morning?

Aye, it's the hypocrisy that's interesting here, not the statement itself. I don't use my triangle button except in the most inhuman and extreme of bad behavior, so I'm not going to hop around and play like I'm terribly hurt. I walk into a forum with my asbestos gloves pulled tight down my hands. It's just the delicious hypocrisy. I stand vindicated.

come on! are you saying you don't want some of this? if it will seal the deal i will throw in a lounger chair and some versatile plywood cubes!

I think as a community we have *always* strived for this goal. But the only standards I *must* follow if I want to remain a part of SL are the TOS and CS that are presented by the Lindens. Otherwise there is no one here that has the authority to tell me or anyone else how to act, feel, or what to say. It has *always* been that way. Thankfully I tend to be a nice person if I do say so myself.

And sometimes calling a spade a spade is *not* such a bad thing. Sure you can tell me how you feel and what you wish I would think or do, but as an adult, I am responsible for my own actions. The majority of people in this thread I have gone head to head with over issues (and some of them with each other) we did not agree on. Things often got heated. But we are all still here, and I dare say I think most of us like each other or at the very least respect each other enough to get along in a discussion.

So personally I agree with your idea, I just disagree with the fact that this has not always been going on.

I am the same way when it comes to the forums. I rarely report a post as abusive - when I do, I don't announce it and make a spectacle of myself like some people, or constantly say things like "if I reported your posts all of you would be in trouble!". I am fully prepared to deal with the consequences of what I say - whether it be to respond and back up what I have said, or deal with any disciplinary issues that might result - again, no public spectacle there. The adage about giving people enough rope to hang themselves proves true in this forum over and over again, and you are right, it is often quite delicious.

Woah!

Ok. Did that feel good Coco? Deep down I bet it did.

The forums don't need to be reformed. We'll yap away with you all day even if we disagree. I think if you put half as much energy into other topics on the forums, and didn't focus on your theory of the FIC and on feeling some need to be afraid, you would be a great asset to these forums.