Discuss New Forum Policy Here

tyvm

Oh McCarthy that might be fun!

Hugz

Cat

Bah another thread turned into a boring me me me type of thing and of no interest to anyone except the few participants who feel they have been wronged. I guess the new rules haven't changed a thing.

Thank you for clarifing that, honestly that is how I read it. I know it realy floored me, thats why I said something. Please try to be more descriptive. That is what sucks about forums I don't know the intent behind your words anymore than you know mine.

That is settled tho

Cat

Hi, just wanted to say everyone I know has nice things to say about you. Please let me know if anyone is still bothering you. I can't see here where anyone is bothering you, other than to try to prevent someone from being turned into a matyr.

I apologize if I have offended you. I have posted a reply to you several times and unless I missed it, I didn't see you respond to me.

I love SL, so much better than TSO. When I was under someone's direct fire and constantly being belittled, I almost left SL because of the way that person made me feel. I wish you could understand what that was like. Or maybe you do.

I have always respected your defense of Prokofy. As far as this happening again, certainly anything is possible, but I will say that in the year and a half prior to Prokofy's entry on the scene, while we certainly had our forum skirmishes, there has been nothing like it prior. How Prokofy managed to stir up so much ill will from so many people is a bit of a mystery I suppose, and as I've said, I didn't want to see him banned. You would think I would, as I was often a target of his relentless criticism. While I feel a sense of relief I suppose that the forums may slowly get back to being an enjoyable place, I can't help but feel sad at losing his voice. Prokofy is an original, that is for certain - and has left his indelible mark on the forums and SL, regardless of what comes next. Not a lot of people can say that.

*blush* Thank you for saying so! The comic above spread over a few months (arrows at the bottom lead to more of the story for those who would not know). But I honestly had no idea where that came from out of me. haha

I've thought of doing a comic for SL. And I may yet. I guess I just have myself so wrapped around other projects I haven't thought of it. But I may!! Thank you for bringing a really happy memory back to me Coco!

Aye.

I completely forgot about that comic strip that you did You should do a new one, definitely

"God knows it is sad. The human voice conspires to desecrate everything on earth."

-- J.D. Salinger

Coco, I just got a notecard in world from Prokofy where he addresses the free stuff he gave you as being the free stuff he would have given to anyone of his vendors. I'm sorry if I made it seem as if he was giving you something special.

I still don't understand how he differentiates between the free stuff he gives and the free stuff others gives, perhaps there a level he stops at that others goes over.

But I wanted to apologize if I did give the wrong impression.

It also felt funny to get a notecard from him in world about something that happened in the forums. Can you see how the two are connected? In the past he has threatened to AR me for coming near his land, which is hard because Ravenglass rentals are everywhere. And now he has dropped a notecard on me.

Coco, I just got a notecard in world from Prokofy where he addresses the free stuff he gave you as being the free stuff he would have given to anyone of his vendors. I'm sorry if I made it seem as if he was giving you something special.

I still don't understand how he differentiates between the free stuff he gives and the free stuff others gives, perhaps there a level he stops at that others goes over.

But I wanted to apologize if I did give the wrong impression.

It also felt funny to get a notecard from him in world about something that happened in the forums. Can you see how the two are connected? In the past he has threatened to AR me for coming near his land, which is hard because Ravenglass rentals are everywhere. And now he has dropped a notecard on me.

It may be a mistake to place my first post in this thread. But I have to post first somewhere. And this isn't the MOST controversial thread of late, while still being controversial enough to raise my interest. I hope that I'm not thought to be or labeled an 'alt', but I don't imagine that will much color people's reaction to my forthcoming ideas. It looks to me like people are giving greater consideration to what they are posting (than in the 100 or so threads I've recently read.) Hopefully that also means that people are reading more carefully and attentively. This may not serve just to spot opportunities for accusation, but could result in our having more time to amply and reasonably integrate each other's thoughts for consideration in our replies.

As far as I understand it, this forum is provided by LL. The recent changes are their perogative and probably in their business interest. I don't expect this thread, small group, or even wide spread opinion will necessarily have much impact on their decision to implement this change. That said:

The games which I have played who's owning companies provide the main out-of-game communication medium (wiki, forum, etc.) suffer a stiffling effect in that medium. This reflects an obvious causal relationship to me. The owner/provisioner is incented to make the communication medium pallatable to a broad audience for marketing and retention purposes.

This game seems to have some more compelling controversial issues than the more simple fanstasy games that I've played. I believe greater controversy merits increased tolerance and latitude (of speech). I think this community will suffer for having it's primary forum explicitly attached to in-game priveleges by the final authority.

This potentially sanitized (or worse) environment could turn out in fact to more efficient, productive, civil, etc... (A return to more utopic times som have suggested.) But I think that this clarified claim of power by the people with all of the power will most likely be a net loss. If the loss is great enough, then the most controversial (imo the most important discussion,) will move to and happen in some other public forum, or worse - in private. Doubtless that has been true from the beginning to some extent, and it's likely this shift has already begun to occur in some ways.

Some have written, and I concur, that the way the policy is enforced may be more relevant than the change itself. I don't think that negates the importance though of pointing out that the principle of the policy may be harmful. It's difficult to do good when the foundation of an idea is unbalancing.

No problem, April. And I'm not even sure of what this free stuff is supposed to be, lol. Mostly he gives me help, rather than actual stuff.

coco

By the look of this thread, it seems that Prokofy left a little bit of himself behind in all of us.

You know, I AR'd that guy twice, and made no secret of my opinion that he ought to have been banned from the forums. His methods were deliberate, malicious, and destructive. Equally bad, many of his arguments were shallow, jingoistic, bizarre, and way too personal.

At the same time, his assaults-on-decency opened up issues that are often buried in these forums. He was partly responsible for introducing the concept of real opposition into SL, as opposed to mere drama. And his dog-on-the-bone chewing away at his celebrity critics exposed a few of them for what they really are.

It's ironic that Prokofy is banned about the time that LL distributes these new behavioral codicils. If I was Prokofy, I'd ask: "Did the State sacrifice the individual to make a point to the rest of the population?"

But I already know the answer to that. I'm with Jonquille, too: I want to wait and see how these new articles are enforced. There isn't much about operationalizing them, not much about process, communication, etc.

Prokofy has been banned!?

(edited)

~Ulrika~

Looks like here are some grown up intelligent careful - humans with huge warm hearths - adults - No i am kidding,,,

... ok some are.. ))

Ulrika's post is a personal attack againt Prokofy Neva. I strongly encourage those who would like to see a polite and rule abiding forum report her post to the moderators and encourage the use of strong punitive action for this attack against someone who is no longer able to respond.

That's definately a valid question, Seth. One could also ask: "Did the State spare the individual while making a point to the rest of the population?"

They could have easily changed the TOS and Guidelines and then enacted the punishment - which would have perma-banned the account not only from the forum, but from SL completely.

Back to the original topic... I think I'm in favor of the changes. I've never understood why alts which are obviously the same player can carry on during a ban. It's like sending your child's shoes to his room for kicking the dog, while he can pull on some boots and keep kicking away. Linking bans on grid and forum might be excessive, but it's really the only way to put teeth into a forum ban, and it also gives people a chill-out period where they can't do something stupid in-world in reaction to something that happened in the forum, or vice versa.

do you really believe that prok got removed from the forums for outthinking anybody? and is "undiplomatic" really your best adjective for prok's behavior?

Again, to give an example, no one has been "ridden out of town" for suggesting a central government, a topic which causes huge controversy and some really snarling threads. There are lots of smart people on here, and not all of them are diplomatic. Controversial ideas, intelligence, and lack of diplomacy are not the issues here -- attack-dog mentality was -- and I think saying that they are is a red herring.


But then, having seen LL bend over backwards to humor griefers in the WA and elsewhere, strife in the forums, and more -- I do believe that LL cares a great deal about free speech and a hands-off policy.

"Yay."

-----

I think the changes are fair. I just hope applying them is equally fair and swift.

Coco,
You and I don't know each other well, but I must say that whenever you, I and Mash have crossed paths we have always had pleasant and polite dealings.
Not so with Prok.
We don't even know this person, but it seems that whenever he had any chance he went after us and anyone we knew with both barrels. For what reason we have absolutely no idea. And frankly, we care even less except that we generally don't deal with people in that type of manner and don't care to have them do the same to us.

Frankly, I love intelligent debate and differing opinion. But the truth is that we can ALL read dictionaries and spout big words. This is not a true measure of intelligence, nor is it by any means a measure of the human spirit.

I came to SL so long ago to recapture my imagination and to take my mind off things in my own life that were hard to adjust to. Because of failing health which I try not to whine about, I had lots of compromises to make and changes to deal with. And to quote Dr Suess, "Oh the places I have been" ... And all in my own imagination with the help of so many wonderful new friends...

What I did NOT come here for is constant arguing, baiting and generally rude behavior. Now I know the obvious response is "Baccara, stay out of the forums" But these are my forums too. A place where people behaved with civility and grace...

So no, if this is true I will not miss the long diatribes and obvious raging anger on every single subject coming from Miss Prokofy... I wish her peace somewhere else. People like that always find another venue... Hopefully the forums will get back to being a place where we can have the decent, clever and hopeful discussions of yore. And Coco, I hope that you will be here as an active part while remembering to temper the positive with the negative. I love to read them, and my health can't take it LOL

With love, Baccara

I think the new policy is showing itself well so far. After all, this thread alone is over 200 posts in less than 12 hrs and has been quite civil. Even seen a couple hatchets buried in the process, if I'm reading this right.

I, myself, have had good, reasonable conversations with everyone I've met, both here and in SL itself. I take pride in being a calm, kind person, as I've had an emotionally rough RL that I'd wish on no one. I think the most 'heated' I've ever been in SL was not about SL itself, but Uru. Figures.

I do have my concerns about the linking of the two, and the possibilities it can lead to. However I think its important to remember that this forum, as a whole, is part of the SL experience, and also a (quiet) part of LL's external reputation (i.e. amongst potential Residents).

I've always had some faith in LL, they remind me of the original small RL company I joined long ago, now part of a larger one and has changed slowly over time. But has always been for the better.

So, I sit and wait, with expected hope. However I'm once again willing to recommend the forums again to people.

i think this indicates how loathe ll is to take such drastic actions.

after due consideration...

it seems to distort reality too much to consider the sl forums separate from the sl grid. both arenas are part of the sl world. this will become even more apparent as the sl client becomes web-enabled and the forums become easier to access. so banning from both locations seems reasonable.

i think the policy should be changed to include more suspensions. each one longer than the next. say three suspensions (three strikes your out) 3 days, one week, and one month. and then a permanent ban.