Discuss New Forum Policy Here

I nor Mar have gotten a verbal warning tyvm for your interest.

Cat

I have not yet recieved an official warning, nor has Mar. Tyvm for your concern.



Cat

Well, the problem with that Forseti is that someone would be taking an idea and interpreting it for their own particular purposes. For example, they don't like the idea so they label it as a personal attack.

For example, if I were to complain about a elitist group of people in SL who think the older your are the more important you are and someone happened to be a beta user would it be fair for them to say that I'm personally attacking them?

I don't think so. Most of the people who claim they're are FIC I'm not even talking about, though strangely they like to then on exhibit behaviour in a way that I am talking about them!

And the "when you see it you know it" is wrong. People like to say that about pornography, but I hear just showing a bit of leg in the middle east can get you in a lot of trouble.

The point being, that maybe when YOU see it you KNOW it is incitement for you. But for me? For John Smith? No, we need an objective definition.

Tyvm for your concern but; I and Mar have not yet received an official warning.

Cat and Mar too

Definition: Extraneous crap like going on about how someone's name is like a stuck-up high school prom queen.

Quit pretending blaze.

I agree with all of this with the exception that i think it unlikely that it will be fairly administered and therfore the "FIC" (hate that term ), will not be punished for the same things that others will be.

To me this is an unworkable, highly subjective solution to a non-existent problem.
All the forums, lists and newsgroups I have ever heard of have this same "problem" and this one is nothign compared to some. A heated argument is a danger to no-one.

I think I hear the jackboots marching off in the distance....

OMG!
Was waht I just said "political"????
Horrors!

OMG, there was even an oblique reference to a type of boot worn 70 years ago by an offensive group in Germany that cannot be named!!!!



As an alternative suggestion (even though it is too late), how about a seperate forum for "rants"??? A lot of forums have them. A place where the angry spouting and abuse can happen and it's legal. It is much healthier than stifling debate.

Nolan, do you have a link or something about what your are referring to?

I am not pretending.

Honestly, I posted a message once about how to get rich in SL by land developing (land baron / builder) and I got flamed incessantly!

That was because the idea of buying and selling land was very controversial.

Was that incitement?

I love the changes, long overdue in my opinion.

I didn't know you believed in the myth of the FIC Dianne. You state above you think some will be punished but others will not be (under the same policies). Why do you think that?

I think we should be positive about this and accept it as good thing before we assume anyone will be getting preferential treatment.

Perhaps this will help the boards become more productive and that's a good thing.

I'll hold my praise until we see if the new guidelines are actually enforced consistantly. Saying something has changed doesn't make it so. Stricter rules mean nothing if the enforcement is as lax as ever.

/120/4f/49912/2.html#post530947

The garbage about Aimee's name had nothing to do with that thread, and was simply an attack, intended to hurt. This is just one example of this behavior by this poster.

For me incitement is someone posting something like:

I heard this person say X on this really controversial issue. I'm not offended but we all know that some will be. I can't mention names but this is a landmark.

They do this - disappear - and then 10 pages of hatred errupt as the forums fight on this political issue. They do this because they want WW3 to errupt. They enjoy the drama.

I think you can tear apart any guidelines/rules if you wanted to....what if this....what if that.....what does this mean? These extra guidelines/rules answer some questions that have been raised in the past. I'm sure they will provoke many more questions, and many more grey areas will be evident. It's the grey areas that lead to more changes like the ones being suggested now.

agreed.

Blaze, we're dealing with humans here. Subjectivity will be necessary. Someone's got to be a grown up and make decisions. I'm all for free speech but there *are* limits that can be put in place without creating a fascist environment.

There will no doubt be violators who slip through the cracks because a linden wasn't looking, but those exceptions don't make the whole system a failure. That said, they posted these rules, they should stick with them, and make sure exceptions are exactly that.

Nolan, I appreciate that you had a very emotional and empathetic response to this personal attack, but do you really think it's reasonable that I'm getting dragged into that?

I guess I'm surprised this hasn't been the LL policy all along. In every other combination of virtual world/game - discussion board, your membership in the official forum was intimately tied to your behavior in game. And vice versa.

It didn't completely stop abusive behavior in either venue, but it did give the admins extra muscle to use and DID tend to make the boards more civil.

Excellent point Roberta.

Yeah I remember that thread!

If memory serves me right what got folks knickers in a twist was that developing involved putting down things like free starter homes etc.. the premise being that these would increase the value of the land when sold along with it..

It wasn't the selling of land etc. that started that flame... and it certainly wasn't one sided with yourself as victim.. it was a case of give and get.

Siggy.

Here's the story: Prok made an interesting analysis of brand name identity using "Cubey Terra" and "Aimee Weber." He was basically correct on all the things which we commonly associate with such names. None of it was particularly flattering; none of it was particularly any sort of "attack." I don't expect most of you to realize that, though.

The individuals in question, or their friends, took offense. Enabran appealed to the Linden Hotline. People talked to Lindens in talk chat. This, probably combined with numerous post reportings of Prok's posts, ended up with him banned permanently from the forums.

This means that you will no longer have Prok to fight with. You will also learn nothing from what Prok might have said. You have succeeded in getting rid of Prok. Despite the fact that the things said to him were invariably far more horrible than any of his theorizing and pontificating EVER were.

What is one's defense against getting your posts reported as "offensive" or "attacks"? Reporting other people oneself? Should we all get into a big reporting war? I remember BEGGING Pathfinder one time to kindly look up my ISP or IP or whatever it is to prove that I was not an alt, for someone ANYONE to put an end to the misery people dealt out to me, in so many flavors. Never have I been subjected to such nasty treatment, never in my life. Nothing, nothing, nothing was ever done in my case. Course, I didn't REPORT people either. That's probably key.

And guess what - I never will. So if you want me to get banned, or even banned from the entire game, I invite you to report THIS POST. This one, as being divisive, as "trolling," as being a "wanna-be troll," and all those horrible things I have ever been called which are simply not true (ask anyone else on any other forum I am or have ever been on). While you are at it, mention that I attacked everyone I named in this post.

Report it BUNCHES, y'all. Then you will have the power not only to get me to shut UP, but your power will reach out even to the game. Pretty dang soon you will have nobody else in the dang game but you, you, you, you, and those who YOU happen to like. The unpopular kids in class not only will not get to speak up, they'll even be kicked out of school entirely.

I have already lived through this mistake Jeska and the others are currently in the big middle of making. In TSO, the boards used to have the same policy: We don't like what you say here, and bam - you can no longer play the game. Gone were that person's investment, gone was their money, their skills, their everything.

Present was FEAR.

When the boards moved over to Stratics, people were no longer worried about losing their heads. And no, it didn't go all to hell without the threat of losing your GAME along with your board posting privileges. On the other hand, on that board, people weren't ALLOWED to call others alts, trolls, wannabe trolls, bedazzled followers, mental cases, lunatics, ALL the things, you guys can name them all, along with revealing rl information. That was NEVER allowed on the other board. I couldn't believe it when I got here and got beaten up.

The problem here has been not just enforcement, but any kind of reasonable enforcement. Fair enforcement. Was there ever any enforcement against what was said about me? No. About Catherine? Not that I know of. But let a certain group of folks get together and hound another poster, and lookie there, he's gone. Congrats, folks. Hope you're damn proud of yourselves. This has been so good for the community, has it not?

I realize that people like me are NOT in the community, and never will be (despite that I am a pillar of every other community I am in or have ever been in), so the fact that I'm distressed doesn't matter one bit, now does it. But I actually think this new idea is really an excellent one. Because then you, too, will live in fear of losing NOT ONLY YOUR POSTING PRIVILEGES, but your ACCOUNT AS WELL.

Course, that shouldn't be much of a problem for those who really don't think a lot, and don't criticize much of anything, and never looks cross-eyed at anyone for any reason. Also it isn't much of a problem for people who don't post at all - or post honestly, or bother to even be in the conversation. When this sort of power is wielded by a few - and I DO MEAN A FEW - handful of individuals, there is no point in even having a forum. Let's just let those who are causing all this have it. Maybe they'll turn on each other.

Hey, I was called a troll by Weedy just the other day. Maybe I should get on Weedy's case - start alerting every post s/he ever makes. Get a few of my friends, too - probably are more than just me who may not be best friends with Weedy. Maybe we could even enjoy the great power of preventing that individual from playing the game entirely!

Now I wouldn't do that, I never will. I'd rather never post here again OR even play the game again than I would want to report people's posts for every little reason. So report me to death, guys, you can take away my right to play the game!

Wait and see, folks. This tying the boards thing with the game isn't a good idea, and wasn't a good idea when TSO did it.

And remember - (this is my favorite part!) - you brought this on yourselves. How appropriate that you should be cheering now. I hope it comes back to bite you on the butt. Do you think all those who hated the TSO policy of having your game tied to the boards were all weirdos? No. Reasonable people lived in fear.

And of the ones of us who are NOT popular with the in crowd, which of us will be next?

And why is it that on these boards, since the beginning, I've always cautioned about who will be next? It's a bad thing if I have to keep doing that.

coco

I was responding to your other posts, earlier in this thread. I really have no idea what your thread that you are alluding to has to do with anything being discussed here.

I don't think it's difficult at all to distinguish between attacking an idea and attacking the person who posted the idea. I was really getting sick of trying to discuss an idea, and when certain people couldn't MAKE me change my mind with their Einstein like logic, they always resorted to personal attacks. One even tried to carry it on in game which told me a lot about that person.

Maybe we can now discuss things without all of the little lamers trying to "win the forums."

"Aimee Weber", and "Cubey Terra" are not brands. Therefore, these "analyses" were nothing less than defamatory personal attacks.

I have to say that I hate censorship of any kind. My country was under a fascist dictatorship for many decades and I have to admit we are still a little influenced by our recent past, where dissenters "disappeared" in the middle of the night. My own mother had to run away from the political police when she was but a teen. They came to pick her up at her high school, but her teachers helped her escape.
I think this new set of rules seems to have been put in place because of a single resident, which sets a terrible precedent. I remember the time when there was absolutely no moderation in these forums... it was a lot more fun back then.
Nowadays I have begun to gradually lose interest in this place, and I have to wonder if that's because I am forced to think twice before saying something, for fear that it will be deemed offensive by someone who might have an agenda against me...
Having peace and quiet is surely nice, but if we silence all the voices of dissent, an artificial quietness settles in that is most unnerving. Anyone old enough to know me, should probably remember that I have in the past held controversial opinions and engaged in highly inflammatory debate, and a lot of stuff I posted a year or two ago would probably get me suspended today.
The Lindens once said that certain kinds of discussion are really more appropriate in fan sites, so maybe I will have to start reading SLU and SLH more often... to find out what's REALLY going on in the world... drama included