What are the free speech limits on an offensive 9/11 build?

Clusterfuck

Dood! your links don't work!

P.S What about SL is "public" ? I totally agreen the lindens have authority here.

Hehe those actually sound pretty funny





Someone sounds like he needs more vespen gas.

And by engaging in such gross cliche, you engage in the very jingoism you oppose. I believe the word is "hypocritical". Fascists, in case you've forgotten, have no relationship whatsoever with conservatives -- except in the radical literature of the loony few.


I've seen about 4 attempts to explain their "intent", and so far I'm reminded of my 13 year old son's whining rationalizations whenever he's caught with his hand in the hypothetical cookie jar. It screams "immature" to me, not artist. Not protest. I won't give it that kind of respect.


Ah, gee whiz. The original build only had a plane crashing into twin towers. Who's exactly conflating here?


1. I saw the same emotional outpouring after 9/11 as you did. I wasn't offended, even though it is not how I believe. I simply saw it as people's way of coping with grief and sadness. Maybe they should all conform to YOUR methods of grieving, huh? What was that you were saying about freedom of expression again? These asshats can insult the sensibilities of thousands of people, but thousands of Americans can't respond to their own anger and sadness with something as uninvasive as prayer? There's that "Hypocrisy" word again.

2. Your misinformed take on Iraq doesn't even belong in this thread. I realize that it's tough to separate the topic of the build from the topic of the TOS, but let's try, shall we?


Well at least we got that out of the way -- I wasn't trying to impress her and it worked. Hurrah


And when I visited the site, there were two people there. And from the looks of this thread, either those two people have a dozen alts or an awful lot of W-hatters have suddenly decided to get involved with this board. You have even used the term "we" as I recall, in reference to W-hat. "They" indeed.


It's also worth mentioning that the police blotter records a warning given on Friday in that sim, after which the tower part of the display disappeared. So I'll ask your question back to you: what was different? The answer may be in that the Lindens have reconsidered. The answer may be that someone finally lodged a complaint. <shrug>

The actions of the Lindens are one side of it. I can understand their reluctance to tell anyone what to build, within broad limits. For the record, I also thought that Ward Churchill (Colorado professor) was free to call the victims of 9/11 "little Eichmanns" and claim that we "deserved" the attack -- while at the same time I thought he was a complete moron asshole. I also thought that he deserved to lose his job, after his employers found out that he was a fraud and a liar.

I feel much the same about this W-hat gang. The builders of this exhibit had the right to be as offensive as they wished, and they also have the right to be roundly criticized by the rest of the SL community (that's OUR right). They even have the right to be banned now that they've attacked other SLers. The sword of 'rights' has two edges, it seems.

There are over 60,000 something awful members, I know of atleast 40 that are in w-hat in it's current incantation.

You may be new but I respect your opinion, and I agree with you, even though I find absolutely nothing funny about that build. I don't feel any sympathy for the builder though. Free speech cuts both ways. If someone goes out of their way to create something that any moron with two brain cells to rub together knows is so broadly offensive they should be prepared for the backlash. I strongly support this person's right to express himself however he likes. I also strongly support everyone who's now smacking him upside the head. Ain't free speech grand?

A group that supports free speech!? Why, I never! Those monsters!

By the way, your analogy would work better if Philip Linden was the only person who could actually do anything about it. Maybe you misunderstand the concept of group land.

Clearly you have no idea what the word jingoism means. Nothing I have said is hypocritical and I agree with you on one thing -- Fascism has no relationship to conservatives. I don't see, however, how the Bush administration has anything to do with conservatives either. They represent an extremely radical group of corporatists (read fascists) who are out to wipe out everything this country has sttod for for over 200 years.
Calling me lunatic by proxy doesn't hide the fact that we currently have a very dangerous element in control of our government.




That, of course is your perogative --as I have mine.



You are. By comparing a digital symbol to an actual tragedy. You'ld think 19 w-hatters were armed with boxcutters and crashing into actual buildings with actual people.




Uhm no. You're the one insisting on people conforming to YOUR view. I'm merely expressing mine.



I never said not to pray, I merely stated that I can separate imagery from events. Pray all you like, weep all you like. I truly find rank sentimentalism and jingoistic behaviour offensive. Maybe, as a Jew, I am prone to seeing it as dangerously close to the Nazis in 1933 Germany. I imagine if they had SL back then there would be people who were outraged at mockery of the horror of the Reichstadt fire.



No.




To a level you can't even imagine.

You seem to have this fixation on only applying it to political ideologies with which you disagree. I find your weak cliches and gross generalizations to be jingoistic, and I don't care if you don't get the point or not. You're doing exactly the thing you're decrying in others here when you invoke nonsense like "neo-con fascists".


Any second now you really should head over to the OT section. Quoting Leftist jingoism doesn't make you look any brighter or more independent, regardless of what kernels of truth may or may not be in those words. (Just a forewarning, in case you weren't aware of it: Put 2008 on your calendar. We're holding a little thing we like to call an "election" then. And whoever gets the most votes, wins. Those who support the loser can choose to work for change or whine incessantly on internet boards about the winning team. Their choice. And yours is ... ?)


Your personal paranoia has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with whether the W-hatters are artists or just immature dips who get off on negative attention.


I'm really troubled by the insistence of the excuse-makers that this is "just a game", "cardboard towers", "symbols are not real", or your pseudo-intellectual rationalization that their display had nothing to do with offending people who suffered very real emotional trauma and loss. There is a link here, created by the offenders themselves, and your continued efforts to reach for justification is, for want of a better word, dangerously silly.


Do me a favor. Cite one instance where I've insisted that everyone conform to my view. I think you'll find that I've said the opposite -- and yet, at the same time, expressed my own outrage at the juvenile, insulting pattern of personal behavior evinced by the W-hatters. Apprently it's not the first time they've crapped in other people's spaghetti. They're giving the real, principled protestors and objectors a bad name here, and your refusal to acknowledge their puerility doesn't help your off-topic arguments one bit. Building your little strawmen out of what you *think* I'm saying isn't making you look one bit brighter.


Fair enough, but you seem to be missing the fact that, in SL, *everything* is imagery. And images and symbols are important to people -- as several in this thread have noted, the images and symbols of 9/11 evoke very strong emotional reactions from them due to their personal experiences. The W-hatters are basically pissing on those feelings and then laughing about it. And you're applauding the pissing.


You'd be surprised at how much I actually agree with the root of your argument here, but I do think you're overreaching and end up defending the indefensible in this case. How about we take these folks for what they are - jokes - and not try to assign loftier motives to their actions other than just another form of grieving?

hay whats going on ITT?

lol stairs?

what

Addendum:

It's time to invoke Godwin's Law in this thread. For those of you unfamiliar with the concept --
Godwin's Law



Just FYI for those of you falling back on Nazi comparisons.

This thread has spiraled into inflammatory bickering and as such is being closed.