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What are the free speech limits on an offensive 9/11 build? |
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Seth Kanahoe
political fugue artist
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,220
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06-11-2005 05:46
I posted a serious reply before reading what a clusterfuck this thread had become Where did seth's post below me go? heh, I posted a serious reply and then realized what a clusterfuck this thread had become, so I just sort of willed it to disappear.... |
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Einsman Schlegel
Disenchanted Fool
Join date: 11 Jun 2003
Posts: 1,461
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06-11-2005 06:11
I commented on the creator's motivations after he himself stated them. I have read the TOS, and there is actually a section that does cover this build Feel free to reread the thread instead of just blindly making statements, Einsman. Either way. It doesn't matter what the motivations. You don't have the right to tell people what they can and cannot build. If its on their own land, you deal with it. _____________________
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Cindy Claveau
Gignowanasanafonicon
Join date: 16 May 2005
Posts: 2,008
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06-11-2005 06:42
Either way. It doesn't matter what the motivations. You don't have the right to tell people what they can and cannot build. If its on their own land, you deal with it. One small correction -- the Lindens have every right, as reserved in the TOS, to tell every one of us what we can and cannot build. It's their world, deal with it. They also have the right to shut down this thread now that it's devolved into childish shouting matches. As they say on some of my other boards ... In before the lock! _____________________
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Einsman Schlegel
Disenchanted Fool
Join date: 11 Jun 2003
Posts: 1,461
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06-11-2005 06:45
One small correction -- the Lindens have every right, as reserved in the TOS, to tell every one of us what we can and cannot build. It's their world, deal with it. They also have the right to shut down this thread now that it's devolved into childish shouting matches. As they say on some of my other boards ... In before the lock! They have, and apparently looked into this matter already. If the build is still there, than apparently its fine for them. Exactly my point Im trying to get across. Only the Lindens can tell if a build is offensive or not. If it's not, then another player doesn't have the right to tell them to take it down. Plain and simple. _____________________
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Cindy Claveau
Gignowanasanafonicon
Join date: 16 May 2005
Posts: 2,008
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06-11-2005 08:23
They have, and apparently looked into this matter already. If the build is still there, than apparently its fine for them. Exactly my point Im trying to get across. Only the Lindens can tell if a build is offensive or not. If it's not, then another player doesn't have the right to tell them to take it down. Plain and simple. Point taken, Einsman. I don't think anyone here (well, most of us) were 'telling' anyone to take down anything. We were, however, expressing our shock, dismay and disgust that anyone would think this was an appropriate thing to build. If they have the right to build it, we also have the right to express our outrage and to let the Lindens know how we felt. As I said about 5 pages back, though - it's a moot point now. The towers are no longer there. The new display features attacks on cross and flag symbols, and I (personally) don't think it merits further debate. Attacking symbols isn't the same as mocking other peoples' tragedy. _____________________
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Tcoz Bach
Tyrell Victim
Join date: 10 Dec 2002
Posts: 973
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06-11-2005 08:49
I was there. Yes, as in, there there. I was getting coffee with my boss at the coffee cart at the base when the first plane hit. I have a view out my window of where the towers used to be.
I'm probably the only person in all of SL that can say that. So I think my opinion is quite relevant. I don't think it should be torn down. The creator is simply an idiot. No such act should be celebrated. Perhaps some day this fool will lose dozens of coworkers and friends. Or perhaps he/she is hoping it will happen to hundreds of people he/she knows. Perhaps this person would like to see their mother and father jumping from hundreds of feet, on fire from gas vapors, and break into pieces when hitting the street. Then maybe take the charred and broken heads, and make an attraction out of them. This person is the kind of filth that got caught stealing body parts from the site. He/she deserves to be fed to starving dogs, and I'd be happy to do it. Rot in hell. You don't like it, IM Tcoz Bach. Go ahead send me my warning. _____________________
** ...you want to do WHAT with that cube? **
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Devlin Gallant
Thought Police
Join date: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 5,948
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06-11-2005 09:05
All I can say is I wouldn't want the assclown creep who put it up living in my neighborhood. People like that scare me. Well, people who THINK like that. ANYONE who finds the build funny is in need of some degree of therapy. Electroshock MIGHT help.
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I LIKE children, I've just never been able to finish a whole one.
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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06-11-2005 09:13
Either way. It doesn't matter what the motivations. You don't have the right to tell people what they can and cannot build. If its on their own land, you deal with it. Again, since you appear incapable of reading or not misstating things,I never asked for it to be removed.I expressed my opinion about the subject matter of the build, again the freedom of speech thing you keep only giving lip service to. _____________________
Cristiano
ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more.  |
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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06-11-2005 09:24
Plenty of people are offended by gays, especially in the more "conservative" states. I know a guy who swears that if he ever sees two "f--s" kissing on the street he'll mow them down with his car. Do we get rid of gay bars because he and his bible banger ilk go into conniptions at the sight of them? Minority groups have rights too, you know. People get so fucking wound-up and self-righteous and they think that they have a right to dictate what other people do on their property. Hell, in Texas, a case about two gays getting busted in on by police and punished for having intercourse had to be taken to the supreme court because of this kind of self-righteous nonsense. Fortunately they won, but there are still plenty of people who think they are ubermensch, the chosen ones, who should dictate morality and good taste to the rest of us. There are plenty of people in Texas who feel about gays the way Christiano feels about the towers thing, and even more strongly. There are a lot of them in that state and in others. It shouldn't mean they get to sit on their high horses and dictate their beliefs from on high. I think what is needed here, in the short term anyway, is a live-and-let-live attitude. Perhaps long-term we can have some kind of parcel flag like I mentioned before. I have travelled to Europe and have good reason to agree with this. Why am I not surprised you you would make such an obvious straw man attack as "people don't like gays,or blacks, or Jews, should we get rid of their symbols?". If you want to make that analogy, comparing mocking of mass murder to someone's religion,ethnicity or sexuality, make the right analogy. How long do you think a concentration camp build, replete with witty cartoon slogan and liitle figures set on fire that was built to mock the endless memorials of the Holocaust would last? _____________________
Cristiano
ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more. |
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Eboni Khan
Misanthrope
Join date: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,133
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06-11-2005 09:25
I love how the TOS is now the new virtual Bible. You can twist it and manipulate it to support whatever fucked up and whacked out thing you want. Awesome! SL is becoming more and more like FL everyday! Woot!
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Loksr Mysterio
Registered User
Join date: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 23
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06-11-2005 09:37
All I can say is I wouldn't want the assclown creep who put it up living in my neighborhood. People like that scare me. Well, people who THINK like that. ANYONE who finds the build funny is in need of some degree of therapy. Electroshock MIGHT help. It could be worse. He could be a 50 year old virgin. Ugh. O wait. |
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Kim Anubis
The Magician
Join date: 3 Jun 2004
Posts: 921
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06-11-2005 09:57
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http://www.TheMagicians.us
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Devlin Gallant
Thought Police
Join date: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 5,948
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06-11-2005 10:07
It could be worse. He could be a 50 year old virgin. Ugh. O wait. Am I sposed to be ashamed cause I am still a virgin? Cause I'm not. _____________________
I LIKE children, I've just never been able to finish a whole one.
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Davoren Flytrap
What?
Join date: 18 Dec 2004
Posts: 29
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06-11-2005 10:08
I hate you all.
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Loksr Mysterio
Registered User
Join date: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 23
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06-11-2005 10:20
I hate you all. I love love you (you love love me?) I love love you (you love love me?) I love love you (you love love me?) I love love you (you love love me?) I love love you (you love love me?) I love love you (you love love me?) I love love you (you love love me?) I love love you (you love love me?) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII love love love you Do you love me too? IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII love love love you IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII love love love you IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII love love love you Apologies to Guitar Vader for any misquoting.  Am I sposed to be ashamed cause I am still a virgin? Cause I'm not. Okay gramps  |
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Ryen Jade
This is a takeover!
Join date: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1,329
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06-11-2005 11:33
Ok, this building and the subsequental thread got the biggest laugh out of me today.
Seriously chip, what the fuck? Now that club elite is gone you don't have something to bitch about? Also, since I saw it discussed a while back, here is the total amount of SA members. 60,446 Registered accounts. Accounts cost 10$ to register, as does second life. We are currently besting second life by more than twice SL's members. _____________________
Between you, Ryen the twerp and Ardith, there's little to change my opinion here.. rather you have reinforced it each in your own ways IM A TWERP, IM A TWERP!  Whats a twerp? |
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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06-11-2005 11:51
What kind of kills me is when I think, what would happen if one of these types were to have something bad happen to themselves? Would they think it was cool to make a game of it then? I bet not.
I bet they'd be screaming to the high heavens, and saving their ass at the expense of anyone in their way. Doubt there'd be many stories of heroism among them. coco |
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Louis Neutra
Louisgod
Join date: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 35
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06-11-2005 12:02
What kind of kills me is when I think, what would happen if one of these types were to have something bad happen to themselves? Would they think it was cool to make a game of it then? I bet not. sure go for it. _____________________
what
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Wino Tomba
I make toilets!
Join date: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 65
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06-11-2005 12:12
I cant believe you people.
Vehemently opposed to humor Every day more thread pop up cuz your offended Gorrilla furries humping all Over doesnt offend your conservative Tastes? A stupid build mocking stupid americans... Be a little tollerant of other people, Others will be tolerant of you. I Need Everyone to Respect everyone else! |
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Loksr Mysterio
Registered User
Join date: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 23
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06-11-2005 12:18
What kind of kills me is when I think, what would happen if one of these types were to have something bad happen to themselves? Would they think it was cool to make a game of it then? I bet not. I bet they'd be screaming to the high heavens, and saving their ass at the expense of anyone in their way. Doubt there'd be many stories of heroism among them. coco I'd definitely save myself at the expense of you, should it ever come to it.  |
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Adohan Zephyr
Bang bang
Join date: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 216
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06-11-2005 12:46
I'd definitely save myself at the expense of you, should it ever come to it. No piss if on fire? _____________________
Ask me about our Linden Juice!
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Himiko Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 35
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06-11-2005 13:08
I'd definitely save myself at the expense of you, should it ever come to it. I've never heard anything so self centered in my life. All my life I've dreamed of being a hero. Gosh, all you worry about is yourself. Reasonable people always put others before themselves. Everyone should look after each other as kin. Everyone should put themselves last. Whatever God or ethical standards you abide to must suck. In any case they aren't any standards I would like to have. Tell yourself tonite when you go to sleep that you're a horrible person. Damn this thread. All it does is get worse. Of all the threads Jeska closes this isn't one of them. Pathetic. |
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Huns Valen
Don't PM me here.
Join date: 3 May 2003
Posts: 2,749
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06-11-2005 13:31
Gays don't become gay for the express purpose of offending other people. The build in question obviously was built for that purpose. Your comparison is specious. i didnt know they were flying loaded and fully fueled jets into buildings full of gays in Texas! thanks for clearing that up. believe me, it's crystal clear  Why am I not surprised you you would make such an obvious straw man attack as "people don't like gays,or blacks, or Jews, should we get rid of their symbols?". If you want to make that analogy, comparing mocking of mass murder to someone's religion,ethnicity or sexuality, make the right analogy. How long do you think a concentration camp build, replete with witty cartoon slogan and liitle figures set on fire that was built to mock the endless memorials of the Holocaust would last? There is plenty in SL that I think is either in poor taste or downright offensive but I tolerate it because I don't think I'm the gold standard against which everyone else should be judged. I enjoy the right of freedom of expression and am willing to allow others to have that same right. Maybe you folks could try a bit of live-and-let-live. _____________________
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Iridian Oz
Registered User
Join date: 9 Feb 2005
Posts: 141
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06-11-2005 13:43
No, it wasn't built for that purpose. He already said he put it up there because he thought it was funny. You and several others in this thread think that the only possible reason to do this is to be offensive, but that's a flawed assumption. You are thinking, "Well, if I did something like this, it could only be to offend," and because of this, you think everybody else could only possibly be motivated by the same thinking. It isn't so. As I understand it from being acquainted with Louis personally, and from what he has said here, it seems to me he got a chuckle out of the picture and decided to put it up for the amusement of W-hat. You are assuming some kind of specific thought process, but the evidence isn't there to support it. No, they're crippling and killing them by different means, but so what? It still isn't right and I still wouldn't support closing gay bars to protect the delicate sensibilities of certain people. I have no idea where you are getting the straw man here. The idea of removing gay bars to satisfy homophobes is EXACTLY the right analogy. There are people who think the build is disgusting or wrong or whatever, and they want it taken down, because it offends their sensibilities. A gay bar offends the sensibilities of the homophobe. The towers exhibit offends the sensibilities of certain people in this thread and otherwise. I am saying that an offended set of sensibilities does not give anyone the right to dictate what others do on their own land, whether it be a WTC effigy or a gay bar. Do you not see the relation? There is plenty in SL that I think is either in poor taste or downright offensive but I tolerate it because I don't think I'm the gold standard against which everyone else should be judged. I enjoy the right of freedom of expression and am willing to allow others to have that same right. Maybe you folks could try a bit of live-and-let-live. back away form the crack pipe dude. |
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Himiko Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 35
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06-11-2005 13:47
back away form the crack pipe dude. no u |