Feted Inner Core Issue: Your opinion?

I think you said it well Madame, as a business, you can't expect to be concerned with every detail, every point of view, every single concern. I work for a National company and some people think they should have their own special employee just for them. Sometimes I try to explain that if we had one person for every customer, the cost of the product would go up 100%. If LL had to agonize over every decision, take time to ask everyone for their opinion and try not to step on any toes, they couldn't survive.

The thing is, if the people simply were good enough to be reccommended in the first place they obviously have enough skill, talent, and involvement in SL to receive such an offer.

So what? They got paid for it -- bidding wouldn't have done anything better IMO save that it'd allow Joe Hobby to waste a lot of peoples' time.

Frankly, I really don't think this issue matters much so I don't have more to say beyond what I've just stated.

Finished reading. Yes, LL is a private company and can do what it likes. I like the company, I like SL, and I give my input.

As far as writing style goes - I am always loathe to have to defend myself for things that should require no defense. Still coming from the sincere position, though - which I will probably ALWAYS come from, no matter who lets me down - and since people do seem sincerely puzzled - I will speak to this.

I'm a professional writer, and have been for years. I basically have two forum styles I access. One is the vernacular, which is pretty much how I play the game, and pretty much the same way I speak to my family most of the time.

The other is more formal. It's how I speak when I wish greatly to articulate a position and all the details thereof. When I'm trying to make a point. The more important the point is to me, or the more interesting, the more formal I get.

These two styles often merge. When my friend from college was here this weekend, we scarcely went to any of the places we had planned to, in part because it was raining most of the time, but also because we talked so much. (And - we talked about you, too! ) We live far away from each other, and were last together in March when her son got married, so that wasn't really much of a talking time.

It is terrific to talk to her. In doing so, I use not only the vernacular, but am free to use more formal language, more descriptive language - and these words can be simultaneously carefully chosen as well as most apt "writing," and are received by someone equally capable of discoursing in the same fashion. About tons of stuff. That movie, "What the bleep do you know," which she brought. The kids. All kinds of ideas and events, all spoken in a combination of the vernacular and the formal, that she and I are able to do together, with no pause - and with, moreover, the fun of knowing each other so long and so well that we toss in all sorts of obscure thinking that no one else would even GET, much less agree on, but we do, and it's fun and enormously satisfying.

(As a matter of fact, Cristiano, I posed one philosophical question to her that stemmed from you: You had said here that there was such a thing as taking a principle too far. I wondered, when could that ever happen? Yet, there must be a situation in which that could happen. We didn't really complete the study of that question, but then, we aren't dead yet, either, and we'll get to it later. Meanwhile, I'm enjoying trying to think up situations where that would be the case.)

So what you see with me is exactly what you get - and what you would get irl. The only difference is, irl I very often don't move to the more formal type of speech, if the person I'm talking to isn't really used to that kind of talking. Then it's all vernacular. Here, though, it need not be all vernacular. If some are able to follow and are interested in the topic, then those are the readers. When a subject is weighty, important, and/or interesting to me, you get the formal.

That's about the best I can describe it. Yes, there are others as articulate and well-spoken as Prok, and yes, there ARE others who agree with many of the things he has said. If he hadn't existed, I would have taken longer, maybe, to notice the things I object to, but I would have objected to them. Just not using the terms he coined to do so. Cause I'm not good at coining terms.

In real life, I am a professional writer. And a good professional writer can write in any style they please, or are asked to write in. I have never intended or had any reason to write in Prok's style, but I most certainly could if I wanted to. I could write in the style of any of you on this forum, whose posts I am familiar with, and you would not be able to tell the difference. That is what professional writers can do. In real life, I am a well-paid, established, professional, mainstream writer, with many professional and academic honors gathered along the way.

No ethical person of any profession would allow themselves to be the mouthpiece of another. But a skilled, talented writer - who also thinks about issues - would not only NEVER do such a thing, but would never NEED to do such a thing. It would be not only completely unthinkable, but also totally unnecessary.

Similarly, Prok would never, EVER stoop to telling me what to say. The closest he comes to that is in group meetings, when he brings up talking points, and even there, it's understood people can take them or leave them. He would never even BEGIN to tell me what to say. To think so of him is to have a totally false and insulting idea of who he is and what he's like.

I have known prok for over two years now, both on TSO, on the Herald, and on here, and I could give you a dozen names of TSO mods, Herald employees, or any of hundreds of people in real life who would assure you that there is no way that I would ever speak for Prok, or have him speak through me, here or any place else, in any way, shape, or form.

I hope this puts this idea to rest. If it doesn't - well, that won't surprise me.

coco

Damn, and here I was hoping you were referring to the punk girl band..

Do you actually believe this or are you saying it to save face? You started this thread and its poll directly after stating, as a fact, that "Prokofy is more right than he ever knew." Yet you now make bold declarations of unbiased intent? I'm really having a hard time piecing together your motivations lately. I am also getting a very bad, gut feeling that you are no longer acting in good faith.

Pinocchio didn't think he was a puppet, either. (shrug)

damn.. wheres my cut of the deal!!!

Coco, if you are *adament* that you have never passed along phrases and posts that came from Prok, then after your explanation I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt. But I'll make you this one deal. If I ever read a post by you again that makes me pause and freak and think it came straight from the mouth of him, I'll send you a private PM and tell you how and why I felt that way. I've only felt this way about a few of your posts (in the grand scheme of how many you have posted), so it won't be like I'm bombarding you. But it may also help me to understand you better. Even if we do not agree on most issues, I'd be happier discussing things with you if I could be more open personally with you about *this* issue. Does that sound ok?

Yeah, it's amazing how many of these long drawn out forum flame wars could (and can!) be instantly settled by passing back and forth a couple of private IMs.

I actually believe it, Enabran. I didn't get where I am by not being self-critical, not learning from and adapting to others' criticism (try working with editors, lol), and not being honest. I am honest, and have been honest, when I have said in the past that I do have bias for Prok, being as how he's a friend. And I do also believe he was more right than even he ever knew. But I'm also honest when I say the principles I talk about on these forums are legitimate. I am honest when I saw Cristiano pointed out that flaw. I learned from that, even. I made a heavy mental note of it for myself.

Just for you, Enabran, just you, only you - I want you to know, I may be mistaken many times (such as thinking I had a bias-free poll), I may be pig-headed, or unable to see all sides at times, but I always act in good faith. I present always to you my views as honestly as I can. That isn't to say I don't get catty or bitchy sometimes, or that I'm never wrong, or this and that and the other personal flaw, but Enabran, you can take it to the bank that I am honest with you, as straightforward as I can be with you, and I will always act in good faith to the best of my ability.

coco

P.S. Sounds like a deal, Pendari! And will probably prove helpful to me as well.

So let's get this straight. You could be:

1. Prokofy himself using professional writing skills to diguise yourself as coco (both the smart one and the not-write-so-good one).
   
2. A friend who's aiding and abetting Prokofy's circumvention of his forum ban by making his posts for him.
   
3. A magical chameleon-like writer who happens to have the same profession as Prokofy, holds the same views as Prokofy, and randomly writes in Prokofy's style.
   

Hmm. You are Prokofy. Definitely.


Everyone thinks you're a friend but I'm convinced otherwise, especially after you displayed your chameleon-like skills at adopting personae via alternate writing styles. It's so obvious.

1. The same envy-based anger and motivation to post.
   
2. The same disruption of the forums.
   
3. The bemoaning of Prokofy's banning.
   
4. The occaisional slips into Prokofy's writing style.
   
5. The early SLHerald post where Coco writes precisely like Prokofy.
   
6. The same inability to learn from the suggestions of others.
   

If I were a Linden, you'd be out of the forums right now.

~Ulrika~

Uh huh. Well, thank God you're not then.

The poll questions are:

1. I think recommending individuals was a sensible and reasonably fair way to handle this situation.
2. I think this should have been publicized and open to all to apply for the job.

And now we are saying coco should be kicked from the game, that she is prokofy? We comment on writing styles and assert that she is a puppet. I suppose I will four hundred responses telling my how coco raised valid points if only she expressed her self better. And how we have all independently reasoned our way into deciding she is a divisive voice in the community and we should continually remind her how she is prokofy's puppet so other will not be swayed by her erratic logic. Perhaps someone will offer a mental health diagnoses?

It was not enough to run Prokofy out? Now we have to turn on Coco? Am I next?

Damn. The pack is back in force. Reading thins thread was painful to me because I have come to like and respect many people who have posted here. And this shit is beneath them.

I happen to think the linden handling of the original situation was appropriate, reasonable and fair. Coco's poll does question the logic, and raises the possibilty of a bid process. This is not uncommon, irrational or singling out any group or individual. Sure it touches on the FIC issue (some of us do think there is an FIC, inevitablyu so, but that does not mean its an insult-unless you are looking for one).

Coco is not Prok, she is not posting for Prok, and she has said so. Again I say give her the dignity of her word. We owe that respect to one another. Coco has no long history of rabildy insulting anyone. And reallyu I fail to see any quid pro quo in this thread that justifies some of the positions taken.

It is entirely possible to disagree with someone and not say the should be banned from the game, are stupid or are prokofy's puppet and alt. It sounds a lot like target of the month club, or at least it reads that way to me.

Oh and by the way some of us do think Prokofy was right in some ways.

I think the sort of back and forth sniping and name calling that is going on in this thread is exactly the sort of thing we all hoped would stop. Or at least I did. I still do.

In this and other threads, I find on one hand, that there are individuals whose ideas and actions are claimed to really be the manipulations for and by a presumed favored group.
On the other hand, there are claims that other individual ideas are really the presumed manipulations of a forum ghost.

Each can cite text, cross-reference posts, and derive circumstantial conclusions compelling enough to warrant telescoping banter.

Identical on both sides. Pfui.

There is sufficient substance of argument to consider here without need to ponder if its source springs from Boss Tweed's administrative machine or from Napoleon at Elba.

Each of us finds affinity in the thoughts of others, but we remain individuals nonetheless. And all individuals become molested when it's imposed upon them that their thoughts or actions are driven by something other than themselves -- be it a group, real or not; or from another person, silent or not.

He went away and you hung around
And bothered me every night
And when I wouldn't go out with you
You said things that weren't very nice>

My boyfriend's back and you're gonna be in trouble
(Hey-la, hey-la, my boyfriend's back)
When you see him comin', better cut out on the double
(Hey-la, hey-la, my boyfriend's back)

You been spreading lies that I was untrue
(Hey-la, hey-la, my boyfriend's back)
So look out now 'cause he's comin' after you
(Hey-la, hey-la, my boyfriend's back)

Hey, he knows what you been tryin'
And he knows that you been lyin'

He's been gone for such a long time
(Hey-la, hey-la, my boyfriend's back)
Now he's back and things'll be fine
(Hey-la, hey-la, my boyfriend's back)

My boyfriend's back, he's gonna save my reputation
(Hey-la, hey-la, my boyfriend's back)
If I were you, I'd take a permanent vacation
(Hey-la, hey-la, my boyfriend's back)

I think so to.

I may have missed something, but no one said to kick Coco out.

First and foremost the thread was about a business who made a decision. I believed it was in their best interest to make the best decision they could make for their company.

I had noticed a change in Coco's writing style. I thought it was interesting and I thought it would be an opportunity to show how an assumption can be made by evidence that looks one way but isn't. Just like the assumption that Linden Labs did something wrong.

The use of the words FIC was unneccessary.

yes and its to bad.

No, it looks like one person is.. and one person does not a pack make.

Also Prok ran Prok out... after numerous reports/warnings/ a suspension - they continued until they reached the end of the disipline chain, then pushed a lil more for good measure.

Personally I think Prok deliberately martyred hemself for 'the cause'...

Thats my opinion on that anyways..

Siggy.

Its there April.

And call me obstinant but I simply fail to see any insult in the term FIC. Its just not there.

People on the receiving end get to decide what is an insult.

Prokofy stated time and again that this is a hedonistic group of people that are holding SL back from it's full potential. How is being told that one is a fuck you hedonist, tekki-wiki, FIC holding back SL, not an insult?

Those descriptors are some that Prokofy gave when he defined the FIC. There is a bevy of others.

Surely Jake, you're not blind? Not unintentionally anyway?

No it's not there. It wasn't for me. To attribute something in my words that I didn't put there doesn't make it so.

It's interesting that you mention name calling yet you think it's okay to use a term some perceive as deragatory. Either name calling is wrong or it's not. And as far as there not being an insult in FIC, Jake it is there.

I think the word you are looking for is obtuse. FIC has never been a compliment - it was a negative description that can be applied at will when it is convenient to dismiss someone's achievements as the product of privilege, connections and collusion. Yes, the word has been embraced by the very people it was meant to malign in order to laugh at it, but it does not prevent it from continuing to be used in a derogative way when need be.

I think the FIC are "fairly intense characters" who have worked very hard in secondlife.

Because they have worked so hard and spend so much time learning the 'ins' and 'outs' of SL, they are aware of the various ways to efficiently utilize the world.

Unfortunately, there are those who are envious of this knowledge and would rather attribute this wisdom to favouritism rather than to merely hard work and thoughtful study.