Mozilla being intergrated into SL in the next update?

bye bye Eboni.

I just thought I'd offer my advice to EVERYONE: now is the perfect time for a crazzy ass freak out and the classic "I'm never coming back again" feint.

For example: "u ruined this game 4 me! without gerbil-emulating tech, this game is worthless! congradulations. im never coming back!"

This ploy is highly recommended, as it garners sympathy from more compassionate dissenters while simultaneously demonstrating your resolve. Even better, you can then just return with your twenty or so alts and stir up even more sympathy.

(NOTE: The following article does not accurately represent the views of the author or any individuals mentioned therein. Any similarity to real persons, places or events is completely coincidental.)

Please stay on topic this added nothing to the conversation.

I could have done that? All that time when people kept saying I wasn't real? It didn't occur to me that that wuld qualify as "spreadng false rl information," but you're right, it is. Next time anybody wants to mount a campaign about how I'm not me, I'll be ready for it.

coco

Catherine, I'm afraid you're off target with this one.

If you want a real target, why not choose the fact that Windows XP forces you to install hundreds of applications and services you'll never need, most ridden with lots of security holes?

Only now is Microsoft finally getting a handle on security and admitting "Services" like Windows Messenger are not a vital component that needs to be constantly running on a desktop PC.

Regards,

-Flip

I think the larger question is *why* they would want to ever integrate IE into Second Life; Internet Explorer's security problems are notorious.

I think you are all missing my point.

Are we to be driven by who is on the board of directors or by the clients needs?

Ebay, now Mozilla.

Why they chose Mozilla is abuntanly clear, my question is were there NO other choices out there?

Cat

From a completely technical standpoint, mozilla is the best choice since it's completely open-source, cross-platform, and standards compliant. Purely from the perspective of a software developer, mozilla is the only platform where I could have access to the source-code of the application and would be free to re-write or simply use bits of it as I see fit.

Whereas integrating something like Opera or IE would require the use of an API at best since they're both proprietary browsers. While that's all fine and dandy, it's extremely limiting considering the technical hurdles of SL. In fact, it might be limiting enough to not be technically possible.

Wether Mitch Kapor is on the board of directors or not seems irrelevant and probably only coincidence when considering the technical factors of integrating in-world web browsing. At that level of business, a director isn't a very likely person to be working in the actual production/operations stages anyway -- I'm pretty sure he's like most board members and simply offers his experience and wisdom in the guidance of the company.

As for the usefulness of web-browsing in-world... well that'll be the job of the residents to sort out. If it's not useful, I doubt many people will use it!

Have a nice day.

I haven't missed your point, Cat. I just think you're being overly cynical and looking for something to worry about needlessly. The one and only time SL used Ebay was to test user response to auctioning ad space in Find without having to devote any time to changing SL's own auction system to accomodate it. Others have already explained why Mozilla is the best choice for bringing web functionality into SL. I understand your concerns but I think you're reading between the lines and seeing stuff that's not there.

It doesn't matter who's on which board, it's not stopping Mozilla being the best renderer for the job, and indeed the only logical choice.

It doesn't say, "the reason SL is using Mozilla is because of Mitch", it says he's excited that they are. It makes no mention of the developers' motives, which, given that Mozilla is really the only viable option, seems fairly obvious.

Good luck and godspeed with the logic approach.

Things I have planned for Gecko to do:

1. New HUDs for my planes.
   
2. Instantly available info on products in my vendors. (Bye bye hovertext!)
   
3. Greater customizability (Your name on the tailplane? Easy!)
   
4. UberComplete, remotely update-able help and manuals.
   
5. In-world product catalogs that are always current.
   

Why they chose Mozilla is abundantly clear. It's just not the reason you want to think it is.

No, there are no other (reasonable) choices out there. Konqouerer is the only other possibility at all, and if anyone used that over Mozilla they need a swift thwack upside the head with a 2x4.

I think most of us who have been wanting/pushing for browser integration have pretty much figured it was going to be some derivative of the Mozilla code all along, 'cause... well... like I said, you would be a fool to use anything else. You could maybe program your own from scratch, but thats a TON of work, to no benefit, and is gonna be a quirky implimentation of a browser at best.

This choice has nothing to do with Mitch beyond on the board of directors whatsoever. Now, the fact they finally chose to do it at all may, but it's a feature that has been requested for pretty much as long as SL has been around, so even if that's true, it's LL finally responding to the customers.

Finaly a real answer to why this client over IE. Thank you!

Cat

See I'm not quite clear on if its going to be *displayed on a prim* or just popup windows. If its displayed on a prim, the ideas are boundless. Entire cockpits for vehicles with each instrument working? Check!

If its just popups... Thats nice, and still TONS of uses, but I hope if thats the case its just a stepping stone along the way.

You know, if LL thought the way Cat is trying to portray them, how come we aren't using Real instead of QT? (Bruce Jacobsen Director, RealNetworks) It only stands to reason right?

I am offended by the coarse language Cat is displaying in this thread. So, I will link you to a Profanity Filter thread started by none other than Cat Cotton. This was around the same time Cat was complaining to Pathfinder about coarse language herself, because she is a woman. Prior to that thread, she had spammed out a set of rules, one of which was something like "do not swear.."

Classic.

More than enough intelligent, articulate, and informed people have explained at length why they are going to implement this browser. You're just not hearing any answer other than the one you want to hear, which you're not going to hear, except in your own head.

If you're so worried about monopolies, you should be 100% against IE being used.



Did you stop to think that to use IE, LL would probably have to partner or contract with Microsoft, one of the biggest companies in the world? That it might cost them money to license, and that the more money LL doles out, the less they have to work with on the platform?

Probably not, because it doesn't fit your agenda.

Mitch is an advocate and leader in open source technology, therefore, your stance in this thread is incrongruent with the philosophical position you've displayed in other threads.

Naw not worried, not reading too much into it. I read what I read and I found the connection a bit distrubing. Why is it that everyone thinks everytime I post I'm sitting here all upset or so angry I'm about to have a heart attack? When in fact I'm usualy just sitting here eating godiva chocolate and giggling at those that go way over board in their replies

No ones right no ones wrong its all just an opinion. Yet after first seeing ebay intergrated into sl and now Modzilla you bet my left eyebrow is certainly raised


So they chose Modzilla because it is open source and the best client for the job, no problem. Guess we cleared that one up.


I do have one worry about this browser intrigation tho. How will it affect the stablility of sl? Will it create its own lag?

I do think its great that it will help the scriptors tho as gawd knows they don't get as much to help them out as the rest of us.

They should be fixing the bugs and the stability issues before anything else. If they wont I think we all need to ask why not?

Forum Politics 101 when you cannot attack the issue attack the person. Good Job again Nolan. Maybe I got sick and tired of forever being called names and struck back. Oh god forbid I should have a fucking backbone. "If you cant beat em join em" comes to my mind.

Damned if I do or damned if I don't

Fuck your opinions too pal.

Okay here's my 2 cents on the subject:

First, the fact that we're finally getting internal browser support is awesome. It's something a lot of us have waited a long time for, and it will increase the functionality of SL tremendously. I'm extremely excited about the educational possibilities, among other things.

I don't know why certain people feel the need to complain whenever new features are added, but I guess they aren't gonna go away (despite their frequent "threats" to do so) or stop. Oh well.

Second, on the subject of why Firefox, I agree that it's the most logical choice for the task. I don't know if Mitch Kapor being on both boards had anything to do with it or not, but if it did, I hardly see why that would be a bad thing. Lets say hypothetically there were other browsers that might have been technically suitable. Wouldn't it still be wise to pick the one that offers the best chance of collaboration between the two companies involved?

I mean, let's say you're making a product that requires a certain component, and you have to choose between two makes of equal quality. Now let's say Component A is made by a guy who has a stake in your success, and Component B is made by a guy who couldn't care less. Wouldn't you be a fool not to choose Component A?

Third, no offense anyone, but all this talk of "now I have to download something new" is pretty silly. You don't HAVE to do anything. The way the artical was worded, it appears that no seperate instance of FF will be required. It said, "Second Life version 1.7, will come with an integrated web browser powered by Mozilla technology (the same open source code underlying the beloved Firefox browser). However, even if that's misleading and FF will be required seperately, like with Quicktime, then you still don't HAVE to do anything. At this moment, you have no browser in SL. If you don't want Firefox, then you still won't have a browser in SL, so nothing will change for you. Think of it as a plug-in that you can decide to get or not.

Okay, so FF might not be your favorite Browser. So what? Deep Paint isn't exactly my favorite natural media rasterer, but the fact that it plugs into Photoshop seamlessly makes it worthwhile. Mental Ray isn't my favorite 3D renderer, but the fact that it comes with Maya makes it worthwhile. Poser is just about my least favorite character animator, but the fact that it works with SL so easily makes it worthwhile. Unless you enjoy needless suffering, you use what works most efficiently with what else you have, always.

So relax. Browswer intigration into SL is super exciting, and can only lead to great things. I think it's much more important to focus on what can be accomplished now that we're finaly getting it than it it is to worry about which browser you'd prefer they had chosen.

Both. It appears that we'll see 2D windows in 1.7 and as a texture in (or before) 1.8. According to the proposition, and this Slashdot post, we'll be getting... well, everything described there, though it seems that the order will be different. As far as I know, though, only 2D windows are likely to be implemented by 1.7.

If there was a windows port of konqueror availible it would have been a better choice for several reasons:
- Low memory, konqueror can be squeezed into very small memory footprints, Mozilla is going to be disabled on low-memory installations of SL because Mozilla is going to use 30 or so MB.
- Extremely fast, Konqueror is by far the fastest graphical browser availible (including graphic-mode `links` and opera)
- Renderer capabilities equal (and sometimes superior) to Mozilla and IE.
- 100% complies with W3C Standards
- Very easy to integrate into third party apps, is open source but also has API hooks for embedding into other applications.
- Supports more than just HTML, Konqueror through things like KIOSlaves; supports inbuilt viewing of PDF's, PostScript, Word documents, etc etc without any plugins and with seamless compatibilty.

Unfortunately, Konqueror is a Linux & Mac thing only, and there have been no recent plans to create a windows port. (although Apple will have to port KHTML to x86 for the upcoming intel-mac), but as a matter of personal preference, I use Konqueror pretty much exlusively , it's getting much rarer for me to fire up Mozilla.

-Adam

the bigger point was how it was chosen not which was chosen.

I've not posted here a whole lot, but I have read a whole lot. And a definite pattern is emerging. The pattern is, when someone, anyone, posts against SL being used commercially, they get slammed, big time. And I'm not talking about one single person here, though a few seem to get the brunt of it.

Personally, I think SL needs a whole lot more technically right now rather than an integrated browser, no matter which one it is. But my main question is - of the people here strongly supporting this, how many of you are looking at it WITHOUT dollar signs in your eyes?

I am SICK of commercialism being shoved down my throat in SL, I am SICK of people being attacked for expressing opinions which don't follow the "accepted" viewpoints. I'm absolutely positive that if a few certain people were to post, "The sky is blue", the majority would vehemently insist no, it's green, and go on about the personality of the blue-sky person.

So, now that that's off my chest ... pass me some Godivas, would ya?

See, I don't know that I really agree with that. I've used both (I used K extensivly on linux for about a month, granted... thats my only real experience with it, about a year ago), but I was NOT happy with how it rendered a number of pages that IE and Mozilla rendered just fine. It may have been a quirky install or something, but some pages had some really wierd problems... Font sizes were a big one, some pages had font sizes all over the board, often very very tiny.

*hands clair 2 bars of Godiva you go sisterfriend!