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The Hegemony Ends Now

Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
09-23-2005 20:35
From: Jonquille Noir
You're right, there shouldn't be personal attacks. They are against the forum rules, they're rude, and they're also the first sign that the person doing the attacking can't stand up to disagreement and support their own viewpoint.

However, trying to paint it as some campaign of old users trying to scare off new users simply isn't true. If I came into a thread and called someone a stupid turd and/or told people to shut the fuck up, I'd catch the same hell any new user would. It usually has nothing to do with someone's join date or post count. (I say usually because it's not always the case. There are some who only feel big by making others feel small. That's their character flaw and not something any of us, or any forum rules can help with.)

Trying to cast this in the light of newbies against oldbies is just uneededly divisive. It's not okay to personally attack a new user, but nor is it okay to personally attack someone with 5,000 posts under their belt, and yet no one ever shouts about that because it doesn't fit into the 'running off new users' conspiracy.

One thing you will no doubt notice if you hang around long enough is that there are those who will always go along with the crowd, but there are also those who will always go against the crowd, even if they have to be wrong to do so.

It's not just oldies against newbies. I've said before, many times, that there are numerous people who won't post on here because of this problem. It is just that it is particularly harmful when it's against newbies, cause it costs us players and good people.

coco
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Cienna Samiam
Bah.
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,316
09-23-2005 20:36
From: Dianne Mechanique
I think people keep coming after you because you just won't stay down.


From: Cocoanut Koala
I would say that is a very accurate analysis.


I would say that, as a purported writer, you have an alarming habit of misquoting others and usually with connotations that they original words never carried.

What Dianne actually said was:

From: Dianne Mechanique
Well my understanding of Cocos style of debate is that even when she has been proven wrong "on points" she continues to try her argument.

The Sonny Liston reference was meant to imply that if someone is beating your head in, the best course of action is not to keep getting up and taunting the attacker, but to roll over or stay down. It's also kind of fitting because before the fight Liston was very vocal about how he was going to "punish" Ali, even though he had nothing to work with and was soundly thrashed, humiliated even.

Sometimes you have to know when to quit. (not that I take that advice myself usually)

Caveat - I should point out that I know nothing of boxing really, so if some boxing fan is even now typing out the many ways in which my analogy is in error, forget it. You are probably right.

*rolls over*


If anything, you are 'Liston' in the above example, as you are forever yammering about how you're going to 'show everyone' how they should behave, but you never quite manage it. Instead, you misquote, add connotation that wasn't there, and generally do your best to make yourself into the 'innocent wounded' and everyone else into 'big, bad bullies'.

She is right on one point however, you really should know when to quit.

Sadly, you do not. You seem to honestly think you're convincing/converting people when, in reality, you're only demonstrating the validity of the vague disgust more and more people give to your posts.

Honestly, if you're so very fragile that the opinions of people you don't know, and are highly unlikely to ever meet bother you this much, you should turn in your ISP access.

I know you think you're waging some holy and valiant war against 'forum injustice', and I know the dissonance under which you labor makes everything I'm saying to you impossible for you to hear, but seriously, you're are hurting any possibility you may have ever had to help by your abject lust for martyrdom.
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
09-23-2005 20:37
From: Dianne Mechanique
Well my understanding of Cocos style of debate is that even when she has been proven wrong "on points" she continues to try her argument.

The Sonny Liston reference was meant to imply that if someone is beating your head in, the best course of action is not to keep getting up and taunting the attacker, but to roll over or stay down. It's also kind of fitting because before the fight Liston was very vocal about how he was going to "punish" Ali, even though he had nothing to work with and was soundly thrashed, humiliated even.

Sometimes you have to know when to quit. (not that I take that advice myself usually:))

I'd have to agree that you've proven me wrong on these points about forum behavior and the TOS. I don't think you have.

Just because you haven't convinced me is no reason for me to take my keyboard and go home.

Why don't the others roll over? I think THEY are wrong.

coco
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
09-23-2005 20:39
From: Jauani Wu
oh go out for a few drinks, come back and yes! on schedule! this thread is about coco!

good to know there are somethings in this world we can all count on :)

You mean I'm posting again? I didn't realize you had instituted a rule while you were out drinking that I wasn't supposed to post.

coco
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
09-23-2005 20:41
I float like a butterfly and sting like a bee.
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Cienna Samiam
Bah.
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,316
09-23-2005 20:42
From: Cocoanut Koala
I'd have to agree that you've proven me wrong on these points about forum behavior and the TOS. I don't think you have.


Er... is it me, or did your reasonable alter-ego step in and write that first sentence?

From: Cocoanut Koala
Just because you haven't convinced me is no reason for me to take my keyboard and go home.


Just because you're not convinced doesn't mean every freaking thread needs you to stand in the middle of it and scream, "I AM NOT CONVINCED."

Why is it you think anyone has an obligation to convince you of anything? Did you ever take a moment to consider the obscene arrogance of such a thing?

From: Cocoanut Koala
Why don't the others roll over? I think THEY are wrong.


Ahhhhh... it becomes clear. You are so completely wrapped up in 'being right' that you can't let yourself turn loose of it.... so you're just going to keep on trying to 'be right' until you earn your ban.

No worries, I've seen it before, many times.

Carry on.
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Jonquille Noir
Lemon Fresh
Join date: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,025
09-23-2005 20:43
From: Cocoanut Koala
It's not just oldies against newbies. I've said before, many times, that there are numerous people who won't post on here because of this problem. It is just that it is particularly harmful when it's against newbies, cause it costs us players and good people.

coco


People may be new to the forums, but they aren't new to human interaction, (and in most cases internet interaction) and have hopefully had at least 18 years of dealing with other people. There's no need to coddle new posters as if they should be walking around with crash helmets on.
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Little Rebel Designs
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
09-23-2005 20:45
Except maybe the retarded ones...
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From: Jesse Linden
I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
Susie Boffin
Certified Nutcase
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,151
09-23-2005 20:46
I may want to add that the last time I was personally attacked on the forums I IM'd my attacker the next day to say it was nothing personal and was soundly rebuked for my stupidity not only in IMs but also publicy in the Welcome Area by something like "the only thing she can mentor you in is how to be stupid". This was from a so-called expert builder of some fame who shall remain forever a dirt clod in my opinion. That same person even started a thread about how leaving forum differences in the forums is the way to go.

I am not the only one with a IQ problem here folks.
Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
09-23-2005 20:46
From: Cienna Samiam
Outside of the ludicrous notion that you see into the minds of others and know their thought processes, it remains that, to a certainty, every person who has complained about not being accepted here has attempted not to belong, but to disrupt or otherwise force others to act in accord with their beliefs.

I am often fascinated by this seeming ignorance of the basic tenets of social grouping.

One does not automatically 'belong' to a group, one joins. The process of joining includes, among other things, a willingness to be assimilated.

No social group is obliged to include you. Whether or not you succeed in the assimilation process is based upon whether or not you are willing to accept that the group can and will survive without your belonging.

A salient point that many of the forum nannies either miss or attempt to ignore, often to their own disadvantage.

As a paying customer of Linden Labs, you have full right to participate in their forums. However, you do not have full right to be liked, to be agreed with, or even to be paid attention to... no one else here is obligated to indulge you, or to accord you validation or even acknowledgement. Indeed, by posting here you explicitly place yourself into a position where any of the preceding may be granted or denied to you by other forum posters, based upon nothing more than their own judgement of you.

Attempts to insist otherwise are inevitably doomed to failure (at best) and usually condemned to mockery and general disdain.... since this is a reality under which we all labor, equally, and, for the most part, without issue.

Well ok, without issue until someone comes along and wants to have only the good, none of the bad, and without having to work for any of it.

(Working my way down the posts - I got off the game to edit some snapshots, but here I am, lol.)

1. I am not complaining about not being accepted here. I am accepted here, and have been since I joined SL and received my key to the forums.

I am complaining about forum behavior.

2. Being "assimilated" into some sub-group here has never been my intent. In fact, I don't care much for being assimilated into anything.

I joined SL. They CAME with these forums. These forums don't belong to any particular social group within them.

3. These forums are not a social group that is obliged to accept me. These forums are part of SL and come to me as part and parcel of my SL membership.

Any social group that exists within these forums - including any I might belong to - are obliged only to follow the TOS.

4. No one is asking to be liked, or to be agreed with, to be indulged, or to be acknowledged.

I am asking for what the TOS promises:

"Be respectful. Please challenge opinions, state your own and enjoy the discussion, but do not cross the line into personal attacks and insults because you will risk having your Second Life account suspended or banned."

Which by definition excludes using mockery and ridicule of others as a primary means of expression. That is the part of "the bad" that none of us should HAVE to endure, or "work" to escape.

coco
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
09-23-2005 20:51
From: Cienna Samiam
Er... is it me, or did your reasonable alter-ego step in and write that first sentence?



Just because you're not convinced doesn't mean every freaking thread needs you to stand in the middle of it and scream, "I AM NOT CONVINCED."

Why is it you think anyone has an obligation to convince you of anything? Did you ever take a moment to consider the obscene arrogance of such a thing?



Ahhhhh... it becomes clear. You are so completely wrapped up in 'being right' that you can't let yourself turn loose of it.... so you're just going to keep on trying to 'be right' until you earn your ban.

No worries, I've seen it before, many times.

Carry on.

I am saying that you (and others) are saying, Coco, you are wrong; shut up and go home.

I am saying I could just as easily say the same thing to YOU, who are here arguing against what I am saying.

coco
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JackBurton Faulkland
PorkChop Express
Join date: 3 Sep 2005
Posts: 478
09-23-2005 20:51
From: Cienna Samiam
Outside of the ludicrous notion that you see into the minds of others and know their thought processes, it remains that, to a certainty, every person who has complained about not being accepted here has attempted not to belong, but to disrupt or otherwise force others to act in accord with their beliefs.

I am often fascinated by this seeming ignorance of the basic tenets of social grouping.

One does not automatically 'belong' to a group, one joins. The process of joining includes, among other things, a willingness to be assimilated.

No social group is obliged to include you. Whether or not you succeed in the assimilation process is based upon whether or not you are willing to accept that the group can and will survive without your belonging.

A salient point that many of the forum nannies either miss or attempt to ignore, often to their own disadvantage.

As a paying customer of Linden Labs, you have full right to participate in their forums. However, you do not have full right to be liked, to be agreed with, or even to be paid attention to... no one else here is obligated to indulge you, or to accord you validation or even acknowledgement. Indeed, by posting here you explicitly place yourself into a position where any of the preceding may be granted or denied to you by other forum posters, based upon nothing more than their own judgement of you.

Attempts to insist otherwise are inevitably doomed to failure (at best) and usually condemned to mockery and general disdain.... since this is a reality under which we all labor, equally, and, for the most part, without issue.

Well ok, without issue until someone comes along and wants to have only the good, none of the bad, and without having to work for any of it.


I dont read minds i read posts. When did i ask to be asimilated into a group? I never asked to be liked. They can debate my idea all they want but not prsonally attack me. I agree there will be bad, good doesnt exsist without it. I am just speaking from my experience. Maybe my opinion will change with time but for now this is how i feel.
Cienna Samiam
Bah.
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,316
09-23-2005 20:54
From: Cocoanut Koala
I am asking for what the TOS promises:

"Be respectful. Please challenge opinions, state your own and enjoy the discussion, but do not cross the line into personal attacks and insults because you will risk having your Second Life account suspended or banned."

Which by definition excludes using mockery and ridicule of others as a primary means of expression. That is the part of "the bad" that none of us should HAVE to endure, or "work" to escape.


No, it doesn't. Your construct of 'primary expression' is flawed, as is your insinuation that if you are bothered or offended, then everyone else is, too (only they just aren't saying anything).

Nor does your 'work to escape' hold water, since interaction in a forum is a wholly proactive affair. Posts don't shove themselves under your nose, you have to OPEN AND REQUEST THEM.

There is absolutely nothing here that you 'have to endure'. I direct your attention to the various means of avoiding things you find distasteful, up to and including the use of the 'ignore' button.

Stop trying to make your choices the responsibility of everyone else who is here. They are not, and you really should grow up and accept this.
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Susie Boffin
Certified Nutcase
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,151
09-23-2005 20:57
And one more comment by golly. If 2 posters have a major difference of opinion I suggest they take it to Im's instead of giving the rest of us free sleeping medication.
Jauani Wu
pancake rabbit
Join date: 7 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,835
09-23-2005 20:57
From: Cocoanut Koala
You mean I'm posting again? I didn't realize you had instituted a rule while you were out drinking that I wasn't supposed to post.


i have no idea what you are talking about. my post was in english. read it again.
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Jauani Wu
hero of justice
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
09-23-2005 21:00
I agree, Susie, I've said enough on this. I'm off to edit those photos.

coco
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Maeve Morgan
ZOMG Resmod!
Join date: 2 Apr 2004
Posts: 1,512
09-23-2005 21:14
/me wonders if she was the only one who had to look up hegemony on dictionary.com


Why do people think if they use large obscure words it makes them look smart rather than just a prententious snot?
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
09-23-2005 21:15
From: Maeve Morgan
/me wonders if she was the only one who had to look up hegemony on dictionary.com


Why do people think if they use large obscure words it makes them look smart rather than just a prententious snot?


I don't know, but I have been trying to find a way to relate the whole thread to my forum icon.
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Cristiano


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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
09-23-2005 21:17
From: someone

I speak for only myself, but I am confident that there are other forum members who feel that this board has been dominated by malcontents for too long and that it is not a generally friendly place to be unless you're part of the in-crowd.


Heh heh heh.

Dogspot, you should IM prokofy and get his insight on what happens when you try to go up against the forum royals, the FETED INNER CORE, the people who think they rule this place because they've been around the longest.

Well, you get banned. That's what happens.
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
09-23-2005 21:28
From: Cristiano Midnight
I don't know, but I have been trying to find a way to relate the whole thread to my forum icon.


Hedgehogmony?
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
09-23-2005 21:29
Oh, shit, did I miss the end of the hegemony?

Can I be the new Hegemon?

Who was the old Hegemon?
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From: Hiro Pendragon
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.


Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
Julian Fate
80's Pop Star
Join date: 19 Oct 2003
Posts: 1,020
09-23-2005 21:32
Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
09-23-2005 21:41
From: Julian Fate


Well. First I have a hearty chuckle. Now I'm just speechless. If only the thread could be locked just before I post this...

Oh, on that subject, btw: In before lock.
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From: Hiro Pendragon
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.


Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
Maeve Morgan
ZOMG Resmod!
Join date: 2 Apr 2004
Posts: 1,512
09-23-2005 21:46
From: Cristiano Midnight
I don't know, but I have been trying to find a way to relate the whole thread to my forum icon.


This whole topic has gone down the toilet faster than Sonic on speed?
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
09-23-2005 21:53
From: Maeve Morgan
This whole topic has gone down the toilet faster than Sonic on speed?


This thread started in the toilet. Well, actually, it started just below the toilet, in that weird S-shaped pipe thing that holds the gas bubble that makes the flushing action work?

Yeah. It started in there.
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From: Hiro Pendragon
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.


Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
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