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The Hegemony Ends Now

JackBurton Faulkland
PorkChop Express
Join date: 3 Sep 2005
Posts: 478
09-23-2005 19:32
From: Cristiano Midnight
I am not playing a game. Your original post seemed very much about your experiences, and having seen many of your posts, I just have not seen anything from my perspective that warrants this stance against the "hegemony". While the topic may not be about you exclusively, I was trying to understand what has been so horrible in your experience that you are lashing out about it here. If you don't want to answer, or ignore me, that is your perogative.


Well, what is the point of knowing what he experienced? It doesnt matter. You said yourself you know it happens. Again you are chossing not to debate the topic but focus on an individual.
Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
09-23-2005 19:32
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Susie Boffin
Certified Nutcase
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,151
09-23-2005 19:50
Uh, what kind of SUVs do you all drive? I drive a Chevy Blazer myself.
Dianne Mechanique
Back from the Dead
Join date: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,648
09-23-2005 19:50
From: Cocoanut Koala
These arguments that that is the way the forums are and that it happens to everyone and everyone is supposed to like it or lump it are flawed.

It doesn't happen, if you know the right butts to kiss and the right bullies to get in with.....
I dont think this statement is true at all.

I cant think of a single person who posts significantly in the general forum that hasn't been dumped on at some point. I dont think the forums are as bad as you make out but they do require a bit of mental toughness.

I think people keep coming after you because you just won't stay down. When you run out of amunition and you cease to have anything to say, the best course of action is to roll over, or leave. Think of Sonny Liston!

The real world is not like some silly classroom where we all respect each others "special-ness" and pass the talking stick aound so we can each have a turn expressing our opinions, cause they are all "equally valid."
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
09-23-2005 19:52
From: JackBurton Faulkland
Well, what is the point of knowing what he experienced? It doesnt matter. You said yourself you know it happens. Again you are chossing not to debate the topic but focus on an individual.


Oh I don't know, what is the point of trying to understand someone's experience instead of just theoretically debating something?
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
09-23-2005 19:52
From: Susie Boffin
Uh, what kind of SUVs do you all drive? I drive a Chevy Blazer myself.


I have a Mercedes CL600, not an SUV, but has about the same gas mileage lol.
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
09-23-2005 19:59
From: JackBurton Faulkland
I agree with coco here but I offer another explanation. Just because something is one way or another does not make it right. By the logic you guys are using you would have to conceed that slavery was ok because that was the way it was or segregation was ok because thats the way it was. This argument is ignorant and not well thought out.


Comparing the forums in any way to something like slavery/segregation is a ridiculous non-sequitur. Can the forums be improved? Perhaps, but you have to work on human nature first, and that is a much bigger challenge. Recognizing the nature of something, and adapting to that, is an important part of survival in life. Very few things in life come packaged with a neat little bow exactly as you want it.
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Susie Boffin
Certified Nutcase
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,151
09-23-2005 20:02
From: Cristiano Midnight
I have a Mercedes CL600, not an SUV, but has about the same gas mileage lol.


My husband drives something like that so I guess we are all guilty according to some old time SL forum types. I'm still not sure of what I am guilty of though.

I know it's not excess verbage so it must be IQ level?

Anyway just what in the heck is this thread all about?
JackBurton Faulkland
PorkChop Express
Join date: 3 Sep 2005
Posts: 478
09-23-2005 20:02
From: Dianne Mechanique
I dont think this statement is true at all.

I cant think of a single person who posts significantly in the general forum that hasn't been dumped on at some point. I dont think the forums are as bad as you make out but they do require a bit of mental toughness.

I think people keep coming after you because you just won't stay down. When you run out of amunition and you cease to have anything to say, the best course of action is to roll over, or leave. Think of Sonny Liston!

The real world is not like some silly classroom where we all respect each others "special-ness" and pass the talking stick aound so we can each have a turn expressing our opinions, cause they are all "equally valid."


Yes opinions are but when it comes to maliciously attacking someone rather than the idea it becomes a problem. I don't understand why she should stand down? Just because everyone gets dumped on doesnt make it right. Disagree with opinions yes valid. Attacking someones character and intelligence definitely not valid.
Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
09-23-2005 20:04
From: Susie Boffin
My husband drives something like that so I guess we are all guilty according to some old time SL forum types. I'm still not sure of what I am guilty of though.

I know it's not excess verbage so it must be IQ level?

Anyway just what in the heck is this thread all about?


It is a variation on the " You forum bullies/mob/cabal/jackals/MrsJakal/cool kids are going down!" theme. I think it's mainly about that pesky Ulrika Zugzwang.
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Cienna Samiam
Bah.
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,316
09-23-2005 20:09
From: JackBurton Faulkland
It is shameful to defend such ingorance.


You misread. I didn't say it was 'right'. I said it exists. That's the difference between people who cope and those who cannot in any situation... the former accept reality and the latter cannot.

The ultimate power in this forum or anywhere in life rests inside. You choose what bothers you. You choose what offends you. You grant others the power to matter to you or to affect you.

I feel no shame whatever in insisting this is the case because it IS THE CASE.

I feel no shame whatever in accepting that I'm not responsible for the behavior of others.

I feel no shame whatever in expressing myself even when doing so results in someone choosing to be bothered, offended, etc.

I feel no shame because I understand the simple reality that reaction is a choice and the responsibility for that choice, here, in these forums, is individual and explicitly not mine.

I suggest if you have a problem with this, that it is your problem to deal with, not mine.
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Dianne Mechanique
Back from the Dead
Join date: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,648
09-23-2005 20:10
From: Susie Boffin
My husband drives something like that so I guess we are all guilty according to some old time SL forum types. I'm still not sure of what I am guilty of though....
You drive an SUV, your husband dives a Mercedes, and you are not sure what you are supposed to be guilty of????
Only in America could someone say that and believe it. :)

(or Canada I guess) :(
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Cienna Samiam
Bah.
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,316
09-23-2005 20:11
From: Dianne Mechanique
You drive an SUV, your husband dives a Mercedes, and you are not sure what you are supposed to be guilty of????
Only in America could someone say that and believe it. :)

(or Canada I guess) :(


If anything, guilty of paying too much for a car. (grin)
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JackBurton Faulkland
PorkChop Express
Join date: 3 Sep 2005
Posts: 478
09-23-2005 20:12
From: Cristiano Midnight
Comparing the forums in any way to something like slavery/segregation is a ridiculous non-sequitur. Can the forums be improved? Perhaps, but you have to work on human nature first, and that is a much bigger challenge. Recognizing the nature of something, and adapting to that, is an important part of survival in life. Very few things in life come packaged with a neat little bow exactly as you want it.


What you are failing to realize is its not the "event". Its the thought process behind it. Of course they are not on the same level but they do share the same thought: "It's ok because thats the way it is." You are trying to step around the idea and look at the example. The example doesnt matter. Try concentrating on the idea.
Jonquille Noir
Lemon Fresh
Join date: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,025
09-23-2005 20:13
From: JackBurton Faulkland
Yes opinions are but when it comes to maliciously attacking someone rather than the idea it becomes a problem. I don't understand why she should stand down? Just because everyone gets dumped on doesnt make it right. Disagree with opinions yes valid. Attacking someones character and intelligence definitely not valid.


You're right, there shouldn't be personal attacks. They are against the forum rules, they're rude, and they're also the first sign that the person doing the attacking can't stand up to disagreement and support their own viewpoint.

However, trying to paint it as some campaign of old users trying to scare off new users simply isn't true. If I came into a thread and called someone a stupid turd and/or told people to shut the fuck up, I'd catch the same hell any new user would. It usually has nothing to do with someone's join date or post count. (I say usually because it's not always the case. There are some who only feel big by making others feel small. That's their character flaw and not something any of us, or any forum rules can help with.)

Trying to cast this in the light of newbies against oldbies is just uneededly divisive. It's not okay to personally attack a new user, but nor is it okay to personally attack someone with 5,000 posts under their belt, and yet no one ever shouts about that because it doesn't fit into the 'running off new users' conspiracy.

One thing you will no doubt notice if you hang around long enough is that there are those who will always go along with the crowd, but there are also those who will always go against the crowd, even if they have to be wrong to do so.
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Dianne Mechanique
Back from the Dead
Join date: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,648
09-23-2005 20:20
From: JackBurton Faulkland
Yes opinions are but when it comes to maliciously attacking someone rather than the idea it becomes a problem. I don't understand why she should stand down? Just because everyone gets dumped on doesnt make it right. Disagree with opinions yes valid. Attacking someones character and intelligence definitely not valid.
Well my understanding of Cocos style of debate is that even when she has been proven wrong "on points" she continues to try her argument.

The Sonny Liston reference was meant to imply that if someone is beating your head in, the best course of action is not to keep getting up and taunting the attacker, but to roll over or stay down. It's also kind of fitting because before the fight Liston was very vocal about how he was going to "punish" Ali, even though he had nothing to work with and was soundly thrashed, humiliated even.

Sometimes you have to know when to quit. (not that I take that advice myself usually:))

Caveat - I should point out that I know nothing of boxing really, so if some boxing fan is even now typing out the many ways in which my analogy is in error, forget it. You are probably right.

*rolls over* :D
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
09-23-2005 20:21
From: Jonquille Noir
I take umbrage with this. I've been using these forums for a while now, and I don't kiss anyone's ass or join any bullies, and yet I don't end up in sparring matches with someone or several someones in every single thread I enter. I always speak my mind, and I always stand up for myself. (and others when I feel it's warranted) I've agreed and disagreed with various people here very passionately, (even your demonized 'cool kids') and it's always been water under the bridge when the next hot topic rolled around.

It doesn't have anything to do with kissing peoples' asses or joining in with bullies. If you're having such problems that this is the only way you think anyone gets by without constant flaming, maybe you need to look at your own posting style, because it most certainly is not happening to everyone.

I agree with your viewpoint. I would add that I would not be on the receiving end of these things were I not speaking up about this PARTICULAR issue. I generally (not always, but usually) don't have the problem when talking about other things.

coco
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
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09-23-2005 20:24
From: Dianne Mechanique
I think people keep coming after you because you just won't stay down.

I would say that is a very accurate analysis.

coco
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
09-23-2005 20:24
From: Cristiano Midnight
I believe what she is saying is that everyone goes through it - you either get a thick skin to it and roll with the punches, or you scurry away and pout. Forums are a tough medium - at least discussion forums about topics. Check the areas of these forums where people ask questions about scripting, animations, etc..., and you will see an entirely different tone. A free flowing discussion forum with adults is never ever going to be for the faint of heart, especially in an environment with as many intelligent, creative, passionate people as SL has. If you learn to not take things personally, stand your ground, and not get distracted by the petty games, then you will find you can partake in a discussion. If you cry every time someone says boo,then people are going to say boo just to make you cry. It is human nature - never let them see your fear. Above all else, lighten the fuck up and learn to laugh at yourself, and have a sense of humor.



Geeeeez. I remember my debut on the forums. I might as well have painted bullseye on my ass.
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Dianne Mechanique
Back from the Dead
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Posts: 2,648
09-23-2005 20:25
From: Cienna Samiam
If anything, guilty of paying too much for a car. (grin)
I am a saint because I dont drive. :) and I am poor too so I am practically Mother Theresa!
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Cienna Samiam
Bah.
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,316
09-23-2005 20:25
From: JackBurton Faulkland
What you are failing to realize is its not the "event". Its the thought process behind it. Of course they are not on the same level but they do share the same thought: "It's ok because thats the way it is." You are trying to step around the idea and look at the example. The example doesnt matter. Try concentrating on the idea.


Outside of the ludicrous notion that you see into the minds of others and know their thought processes, it remains that, to a certainty, every person who has complained about not being accepted here has attempted not to belong, but to disrupt or otherwise force others to act in accord with their beliefs.

I am often fascinated by this seeming ignorance of the basic tenets of social grouping.

One does not automatically 'belong' to a group, one joins. The process of joining includes, among other things, a willingness to be assimilated.

No social group is obliged to include you. Whether or not you succeed in the assimilation process is based upon whether or not you are willing to accept that the group can and will survive without your belonging.

A salient point that many of the forum nannies either miss or attempt to ignore, often to their own disadvantage.

As a paying customer of Linden Labs, you have full right to participate in their forums. However, you do not have full right to be liked, to be agreed with, or even to be paid attention to... no one else here is obligated to indulge you, or to accord you validation or even acknowledgement. Indeed, by posting here you explicitly place yourself into a position where any of the preceding may be granted or denied to you by other forum posters, based upon nothing more than their own judgement of you.

Attempts to insist otherwise are inevitably doomed to failure (at best) and usually condemned to mockery and general disdain.... since this is a reality under which we all labor, equally, and, for the most part, without issue.

Well ok, without issue until someone comes along and wants to have only the good, none of the bad, and without having to work for any of it.
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Jonquille Noir
Lemon Fresh
Join date: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,025
09-23-2005 20:27
From: Cocoanut Koala
I agree with your viewpoint. I would add that I would not be on the receiving end of these things were I not speaking up about this PARTICULAR issue. I generally (not always, but usually) don't have the problem when talking about other things.

coco


I've also stood up to bullies and still haven't met with the reaction you get. I don't mean insult when I say you might want to look at your approach and rethink it.
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Cocoanut Koala
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09-23-2005 20:30
From: Cristiano Midnight
It is a variation on the " You forum bullies/mob/cabal/jackals/MrsJakal/cool kids are going down!" theme. I think it's mainly about that pesky Ulrika Zugzwang.

It is not all about just Ulrika. There ARE forum bullies. Some people don't want to admit it. Some people don't see it. Some people see it and say, so what.

I see it and say it is bad for SL, bad for posters, bad for people's feelings, and against the TOS.

This is not the "real world". (If some similarly uncivil real world place actually does exist.) This is the SL forums. As such, it would be nice if it were anywhere near as civil as the TOS says it is supposed to be, so that more players would post, fewer would leave from disgust, and new players wouldn't get run off from the get-go.

coco
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Jauani Wu
pancake rabbit
Join date: 7 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,835
09-23-2005 20:31
From: MrsJakal Suavage
The way you worded this section made it appear to be about you. Just sayin.


mrsjakal, that was such an obvious response. you missed the subtlety where dogspot reveals between the lines that he's an attention seeking troll trying repeatedly to create contreversial threads disguised as a victimized or self righteous newbie.

it's the game where you can simultaneously win and lose.
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Jauani Wu
pancake rabbit
Join date: 7 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,835
09-23-2005 20:32
oh go out for a few drinks, come back and yes! on schedule! this thread is about coco!

good to know there are somethings in this world we can all count on :)
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