I'm not an outsider, and it sucks.
coco
Welcome to the Second Life Forums Archive
These forums are CLOSED. Please visit the new forums HERE
Are we going to stand for this ? |
|
|
Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
|
04-19-2006 16:29
_____________________
|
|
Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
|
04-19-2006 16:36
I'm not an outsider, and it sucks. coco To the society of "duelists" you are. _____________________
I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
|
|
Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
|
04-19-2006 17:02
I guess so. But I think all the duelists are usually on one side, thus it isn't much sport.
coco _____________________
|
|
Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
|
04-19-2006 20:26
I guess so. But I think all the duelists are usually on one side, thus it isn't much sport.  _____________________
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court. Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags? |
|
Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
|
04-19-2006 20:53
Enabran, I'm not that pretty!
coco _____________________
|
|
Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
|
04-19-2006 21:09
Enabran, I'm not that pretty! True enough. She's playing her sad song for you, though. _____________________
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court. Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags? |
|
Caliandris Pendragon
Waiting in the light
Join date: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 643
|
04-19-2006 22:23
Those are good points, that all those factors do come into play in determining where individuals land, especially when it's all still kind of confusing. I think we have fewer classes maybe because in the beginning, everybody wanted to learn the building, etc., skills, and thought of that as what it is all about - it was kind of that beta and beginning thing. But now we have oodles more people coming in just to play, and sometimes to specifically play at things like sex clubs. It just is bound to be a different bunch than the people in the beginning, proportionately speaking, with more who are not interested in learning all that stuff. Sorry - as I take my duties as a Mentor seriously, I meet a lot of people new to the game. This isn't representative of them. They are usually desperate and grateful to learn the same sort of things I learned, and more. How to get boxes off the head, how to get stuff out of boxes, what's a prim, how to build, how do people earn money in game, do you need to earn money in game. I have never, and I mean never, been asked where is the nearest sex club and how do I get to it.... I have been asked where avatars have penises, and where to buy them. I have been asked what a pose ball is and how is this different from an animation/gesture/AO. I think there is as much of a demand for classes as there ever was, and yet there are not anywhere near as many as there used to be. Supply and demand is not working in that area. I don't think it's true - and I don't think there is any way to prove it's true - that "people don't bother with the events list anymore." I certainly do. And judging by the people at those events, so do others. Plus I recently put my first event up - a garage sale - and I sold almost everything! So hey, somebody was reading it! Ok, I wasn't very accurate about what I said. What I SHOULD have said is that the events list is read by people who like club events, tringo/slingo/bingo and yard sales. Because 90 per cent of what is in it are those sorts of events. The people who complain about there never being anything BUT those sorts of events have stopped reading it unless desperate for something to do. Because wading through 100s of events you have no interest in, in order to find one you do, means you get out of the habit of checking it. Cali _____________________
Numbakulla: Pot Healer's Mystery, free to play and explore
http://caliinsecondlife.blogspot.com/ http://www.nemesis-content.com]Nemesis Content Creation _________________________________________________ The main obstacle to discovery is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge~Daniel J. Boorstin |
|
Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
|
04-19-2006 23:06
True enough. She's playing her sad song for you, though. I'm not personally particularly adversely affected by the removal of dwell. coco _____________________
|
|
Azazel Trescothick
Registered User
Join date: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 68
|
04-20-2006 00:12
I would just like to voice that I would pay for an enjoyable event. For instance, the Vixens Isle club, I would definately pay a cover charge for. They constantly have contests going in the evenings, and always have friendly hosts. So there are some of us who recognize the value that these places give us and are willing to contribute. Contests bring in more people. After this takes affect, will there be any reason to have contests where land owners will have to shell out money to have a crowd and how many contests will be rigged to give the prize money to an undercover employee or friend in the name of collecting a fee for the club? Lindens aren't cheap to buy using RL money so how many designers, builders and so forth will have a harder time selling? Alot of people enter contests or go to events to earn their lindens for outfits, skins, prefab homes, furniture. I highly doubt LL would reduce the RL cost of buying lindens to make up for the loss. |
|
Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
|
04-20-2006 01:56
I guess so. But I think all the duelists are usually on one side, thus it isn't much sport. coco Who are the duelists again? _____________________
The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals.
I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread |
|
Star Sleestak
Registered User
Join date: 3 Feb 2006
Posts: 228
|
04-20-2006 02:02
One tiny, tiny problem with that reasoning. Basic accounts do pay to upload textures, sounds, poses et.
I've spent my 512 for my parcel, but I've spent so much more at 10L an upload. <looks up at the long line of forum posts> <sighs and shakes head> All this drawmahhhh! You know, there was a time when I though being resonable and giving well though-out responses would get a point across and help people to understand. I know better now! Let's go by the numbers, shall we? 1. The network companies want money for the bandwidth that SL uses, because they are an eval corp that demands sacrifice on the altar of their money god! 2. The computer manufactures want money for the hardware SL runs on, since the computer fairy is a myth. 3. The power companies want money for all the electrons that fuel the world of SL, because if they pull the plug, everything get's REALLY dark! 4. Linden Labs has to give money to it's employees so that they can feed and cloth themselves, since starving naked geeks are just scary! <looks at that and nods> Ok! First level done! Now, LL allows new users in for FREE. No charge. Zip. Nada. NO INCOME TO LL FROM THEM! In fact, only those that stick around and decide to buy land are actually making LL any money. LL does not sell content, they rent land. Land is the only income they have, and only a small percentage of the population buys in. LL does not sell content, just the space to display it. <hmnnnn> Oh! I know! LL can produce it's own cloths, toys, and commercial items! And sell them for money! And then get into price wars with the residents who pay for their land, and put them out of business... And then they stop paying for land... Er... Nevermind... But, for some reason, people think that LL should take further hits and FUND THEIR LAND FOR THEM! I got news for you: They already are, kids... They are funding so much of it, that they need DONATIONS of cash to continue to exist! Mind you, I'm just guessing, but the fact is the impression given is that the $11 million was funding infrastructure. Soooo. Here is what it comes down to: Complain. Gripe. Make small whimpering noises and sell off your land. None of it matters and RL controls SL in ALL ways. The laws of supply and demand, trickle-down, and all the rest still apply. You don't like it, then go to a fantasy land that comes prebuilt and shrink-wrapped like EverQuest and enjoy all they have to offer for $15 a month. Either that or explain where all this fictional free money is supposed to come from... Me? I'll stick with SL and adapt.  <opens arms wide in welcome to the flames that will follow> |
|
Martin Magpie
Catherine Cotton
Join date: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,826
|
04-20-2006 06:17
So where does all the money for texture uploads, animation uploads, and sound uploads go?
In LL pocket. _____________________
 |
|
Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
|
04-20-2006 06:27
So where does all the money for texture uploads, animation uploads, and sound uploads go? In LL pocket. Wrong. _____________________
I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
|
|
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
|
04-20-2006 06:35
Jillian's original point is that the money paid to LL does not garauntee access to all the content you'd like/want. The only things LL gives you access to is the world, the building tools, and the people inside. I have talked for a long time about how people started needing to pay for all their content, including their entertainment. Sure, there will people who are focused on free content, and I have no doubt they will be popular not for their content, but because they are free. Just like on the web. How many entertainments on the world wide web require a paid subscription before you can access them? Even places like last.fm which have subscriptions and provide free (and legal) personalised radio stations based on what people like you listen to... are free. Membership is optional. Why? Because competition for your attention is so high that the marginal value of one site over another is less than the marginal cost of being hassled for money. Heck, even requiring a free subscription is enough to make a lot of people go elsewhere. Until Linden Labs can come up with a scheme that's as transparent as dwell, like (for example) a new dwell based on the number of paying accounts visit your land, SL's going to become poorer and less friendly as a result of this. As one of SL's longest pure entertainers, it's been a very big obstacle to overcome, and I hope to see things get better as time goes on. |
|
Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
|
04-20-2006 07:22
So where does all the money for texture uploads, animation uploads, and sound uploads go? In LL pocket. No. That would be an incorrect statement. They make no money from those sinks. _____________________
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court. Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags? |
|
Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
|
04-20-2006 07:24
No. That would be an incorrect statement. They make no money from those sinks. I believe I covered that much nicer with "Wrong." _____________________
I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
|
|
Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
|
04-20-2006 08:21
I believe I covered that much nicer with "Wrong." For the rest of us, but Cathertin Magotten needs things clearly spelled out, y'know.  _____________________
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court. Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags? |
|
Martin Magpie
Catherine Cotton
Join date: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,826
|
04-21-2006 10:06
Wrong. Or really then where does the money for uploads go Reisuki? Because the last time I checked I was charged by LL to upload. Does that money just disapear? Nope. It goes back to LL. Which in fact offsets their costs of stippends. Wouldn't suprize me to find out that they made more from uploads than they paid out in stippends and dwell. That money does not just go poof. Cat _____________________
|
|
Martin Magpie
Catherine Cotton
Join date: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,826
|
04-21-2006 10:08
No. That would be an incorrect statement. They make no money from those sinks. Do you have any way to prove that "fact"? I don't think you do. _____________________
|
|
Geepa Lazarno
Registered User
Join date: 7 Apr 2006
Posts: 61
|
04-21-2006 10:13
What would the mechanism be for turning the loss of linden for uploads into actual cash for the lindens? I fail to see it, since RL money doesn't enter into the equation at all.
|
|
Surreal Farber
Cat Herder
Join date: 5 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,059
|
04-21-2006 10:13
Or really then where does the money for uploads go Reisuki? Because the last time I checked I was charged by LL to upload. Does that money just disapear? Nope. It goes back to LL. Which in fact offsets their costs of stippends. Wouldn't suprize me to find out that they made more from uploads than they paid out in stippends and dwell. That money does not just go poof. Cat $L sinks decrease the amount of $L in circulation, but it doesn't go into the Lindens pocket in the sense that it makes them USD. There is no fact. We don't know how the Lindens track $L. They may use an accounting model, but since $L aren't money... they may use some other method. Without knowing the number of uploads nor the total amount of dwell or stipends, there is no way to do the math. Lots of speculation, no information. _____________________
Surreal
Phobos 3d Design - putting the hot in psychotic since 2004 Come see our whole line of clothing, animations and accessories in Chaos (37, 198, 43) |
|
Surreal Farber
Cat Herder
Join date: 5 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,059
|
04-21-2006 10:16
And Readers Digest (sorry an in joke for Surreal) Mwahaha. I finally caught up on my thread reading. Yes some people DO think Readers Digest is literature. I think Readers Digest is to Literature what toliet paper is to Trees. _____________________
Surreal
Phobos 3d Design - putting the hot in psychotic since 2004 Come see our whole line of clothing, animations and accessories in Chaos (37, 198, 43) |
|
Martin Magpie
Catherine Cotton
Join date: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,826
|
04-21-2006 10:16
$L sinks decrease the amount of $L in circulation, but it doesn't go into the Lindens pocket in the sense that it makes them USD. There is no fact. We don't know how the Lindens track $L. They may use an accounting model, but since $L aren't money... they may use some other method. Without knowing the number of uploads nor the total amount of dwell or stipends, there is no way to do the math. Lots of speculation, no information. Do we have any proof that LL does not also use the LindeX to cash this money out? I haven't seen any. I absolutly agree with you on your points. I would love for LL to be more transparent when it comes to their bookkeeping practices. How do we really know anything about their economy model and how to work within that model if they do not share valueable information about their economy model. We are all just guessing at what they do, when no facts are presented ppl will assume the worst. Cat _____________________
|
|
Surreal Farber
Cat Herder
Join date: 5 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,059
|
04-21-2006 10:18
Who are the duelists again? Someone is unarmed and it's not me and it's not you... *goes back to honing her rapier sharp wit* _____________________
Surreal
Phobos 3d Design - putting the hot in psychotic since 2004 Come see our whole line of clothing, animations and accessories in Chaos (37, 198, 43) |
|
AJ DaSilva
woz ere
Join date: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 1,993
|
04-21-2006 16:44
Oh gods, I wasn't gonna write anythng when I started reading this thread today, but I can't resist this one.
Do we have any proof that LL does not also use the LindeX to cash this money out? I haven't seen any. _____________________
|