Are we going to stand for this ?

Not only am I going to stand for it, I'm going to give it standing applause.



How long this time?

With the first point, I agree wholeheartedly. It's a good deal, if one isn't me. I pay $180/month for the broadband access to play sl because I am charged by the MB. So even on a basic account, I'd be paying more than I spend on clothing annually.

On the second point, I will gently remind, some makers of content. Not experiential content.

for crying out loud, siggy, don't be rational and reasonable. sheesh!

It's a great move, something long overdue. Dwell's pants. It doesn't pay a lot and subsidises anybody with a build, which doesn't scale and isn't in LL's interests. Personally I can't wait to see what effect this has on the environment. Will it remove or reduce camping chairs? Maybe not. Will it start people charging for entry? Possibly. Will it lead to sponsorship and advertising at venues or events? Yes, absolutely.

And it's also great for drama! I mean, already Catherine/Martin is selling up yet again (have you priced it reasonably this time to actually sell it, rather than just pretend?) Like the circle of life, some things are just predictable. No doubt we'll be left with a flurry of abuse before she departs however.

I look forward to seeing her around again in a couple of months (if that).

And I disagree on that - I belive all creators of content of any sort can (and shuold) be rewarded with that system, and win with these adjustments (when they work).

Stop complaining! IF it's money u want to earn in sl, and all your complaining about then adding content for those players who don't have the income for any of those "fancy" programs that "already established business's use" i have a few "secrets" to let u in on.

1) building. hello pick up a box or two... morph them... wah la, u have created sumthin! Take the time to teach yourself to build DUH!

2) Paint... you DO have a computer and it DOES come with a default paint program. yea you might need photoshop to make clothes, but u can make a ton of custom textures in paint if u took the time to do it.

i don't have photoshop, and i don't buy lindens, yet a funny thing i'm a designer that has done pretty good for myself without ANY of those fancy programs... also if u don't have money to upload those pretty lil texts u made in paint.. look in the library of ur inventory, Lindens provide us with some pretty neat textures... or go to a place that has THOUSANDS of free textures.

You don't need to spend money to have fun in sl, build a box make it fun, if its a house u need well look around there are places that would let u live on their land for free. Dressing to impress? its called dressing to express urself and yes there are a ton of freebies, and u can get those from some of the best designers in sl. oh and if for those who can't afford the freebies... they can always find a naked community...

You don't have to pay for this game, you don't need L$ to have fun either! And omg about the events that don't pay enough... hello you must not have been around when people NEVER paid u to go to an event. if u went it was to have fun, no bribes needed... you have the wrong attitude and must be hangin around some shady people to feel the way u do about sl. I've been in game before skins, before prim hair, and before the payed events, get over it, stop complaining and find sumthin else to do if u don't like it here!

so really if u like the game you find a way to make it work with or without money. In a game that really is a PLAYER ran game... money should be the last thing u need to have fun...

Most other MMORPGs you have to pay to play. This one is free. Spending money comes from your own pocket, or from your own skills.

Why should LL pay you to play their game? They're running a business after all. Get some perspective.

Musuko.

Random, sorta-topical thought:

Is it possible that "Will Liberty", Martin Magpie, and others are complaining about dwell's demise forcing them to provide fresh and compelling content because their posts have yet to demonstrate they have the ability to do so?

Bingo! When exactly did SL become just a rat race to make money? Who says we have to get on that hamster wheel? LL does. As time passes they continue to take away perks from the player base. Perks I might add that give incentive to players to have fun and enjoy SL. At what point have they gone too far? At what point does the player base say: "No more taking simply to fatten your bottom line!" The part of SL that has historically been "for entertainment purposes" is slowly but surely being sucked away by LL. That angers me because I can see past the end of my nose. I see ppl saying "What I have to buy L$ if I want that shirt? Where is my dwell? What happened to my Stippened. Answer me this; Did we learn nothing from There.com? I'm pissed off because I see how this will turn ppl away.

When all is said and done, who the fuck are ppl going to sell their shit to? Only ppl who choose to pay even more money than they already do. By and large SL is already pushing the limit on subscription prices. Most gamers figure to spend 9.99-14.99 per mo. They do not spend $50.00 per mo.for subscription, and spending money. LL is screwing themselves and the "businesses" in SL. If ppl have less money they will spend less, duh.

Cat

I don't have to list my accomplishments in SL, I have done pleanty, I have made a load of cash. My opinion is not based on how "commercial" I have been. Once you understand that perhaps you can then understand my opinion. I worry about the future of SL and LL inability to see they are fucking up their own product. This isn't just about screwing the little guy. If the little guy has less to spend then the big guy will earn less. This latest move will affect everyone.

Hmmm. Parsing the forum for the last couple of years, I see this is an oft-fought argument. Anyone ever solve it?

Or does anyone remember the original question?

"Are we going to stand for this ?"

Fuck No!

<looks up at the long line of forum posts>

<sighs and shakes head>

All this drawmahhhh!

You know, there was a time when I though being resonable and giving well though-out responses would get a point across and help people to understand.

I know better now!


Let's go by the numbers, shall we?

1. The network companies want money for the bandwidth that SL uses, because they are an eval corp that demands sacrifice on the altar of their money god!
2. The computer manufactures want money for the hardware SL runs on, since the computer fairy is a myth.
3. The power companies want money for all the electrons that fuel the world of SL, because if they pull the plug, everything get's REALLY dark!
4. Linden Labs has to give money to it's employees so that they can feed and cloth themselves, since starving naked geeks are just scary!


<looks at that and nods> Ok! First level done!


Now, LL allows new users in for FREE. No charge. Zip. Nada.

NO INCOME TO LL FROM THEM!

In fact, only those that stick around and decide to buy land are actually making LL any money. LL does not sell content, they rent land. Land is the only income they have, and only a small percentage of the population buys in. LL does not sell content, just the space to display it.

<hmnnnn>

Oh! I know! LL can produce it's own cloths, toys, and commercial items! And sell them for money!

And then get into price wars with the residents who pay for their land, and put them out of business... And then they stop paying for land...

Er... Nevermind...

But, for some reason, people think that LL should take further hits and FUND THEIR LAND FOR THEM! I got news for you: They already are, kids... They are funding so much of it, that they need DONATIONS of cash to continue to exist! Mind you, I'm just guessing, but the fact is the impression given is that the $11 million was funding infrastructure.

Soooo. Here is what it comes down to: Complain. Gripe. Make small whimpering noises and sell off your land. None of it matters and RL controls SL in ALL ways. The laws of supply and demand, trickle-down, and all the rest still apply. You don't like it, then go to a fantasy land that comes prebuilt and shrink-wrapped like EverQuest and enjoy all they have to offer for $15 a month. Either that or explain where all this fictional free money is supposed to come from...

Me? I'll stick with SL and adapt.


<opens arms wide in welcome to the flames that will follow>

Last time I checked most ppl do pay a subscription to LL. They are making bank, Philip made that perfectly clear. So no I don't "feel" for their need to get a few more dollars out of my pocket. Instead of confronting things like camping chairs head on. They chose to make everyone pay for the wrong doings of a few. Slippery slope.

At what point wouldn't you "adapt"?

I post things people hate and still use my main (and only) account.

Why can't you Will?

Just keep a modicum of seperation from your postings on forums, and your in world character. Jonas in world is alot like me, but not exactly. On the forums, its not a persona. Its a pen name as opposed to my rl name. But I don't hide who I am.

Be honest with yourself, with others. Be bold. Be strong enough to tell others to buzz off in world if you need. Be yourself..just don't hide behind a facade.

Catherine.....
Catherine.....

Catherine, FUCK YEAH!
Leaving again, for the mother fucking tenth time,
Catherine, FUCK YEAH!
But she'll be back I'd bet my last dime.

Linden Lab your game is through cause now you have to answer to,
Catherine, FUCK YEAH!
She'll kick your ass as she storms once more,
Catherine, FUCK YEAH!
Maybe this time she'll see it through yeah.

it’s the dream that we all share; it’s the hope for tomorrow

FUCK YEAH!

When I'm dead. Literally.

And I don't remember seeing anywhere where LL giving out rewards was a part of the TOS. It was nice of them to do so, but it was a reward. Not a payment for services rendered.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
My newest hero!

Siggy, catch me inworld some time. We can talk about the future of Commercial funded events.

So why not simply crack down on the freeloaders, encourage people to 'go premium' and solve it that way instead of making everyone suffer?

Make basic accounts create zero traffic, then people won't be coming up with crap like camping chairs (or whatever the next problem is) to drag in people to sit on their land to make them look artificially popular? After all, who are the biggest users of camping chairs? Newbies.

We need new players, but we need to give them an incentive to stay playing and upgrade to a premium account so LL get some revenue from them towards the costs they incur by logging in. Simply cutting out one of the few remaining rewards that there are for making an effort to create 'stuff' is going to negatively affect the overall experience, period.

Over the next couple of months I predict seeing some big names disappearing off the map, and a big downturn in in-world activity.

Lewis

It'll be a cold day in hell when a trickle of Lindens from people being on my land is one of the few remaining rewards for me creating stuff. The reward is purely the joy of creation for creation sake, seeing people use what I make, the hours I can spend after I've finished a build I'm proud of staring at and and thinking f@$k that's neat, the IMs I get from people I haven't met saying "hey man, I love your version of the Stratosphere", learning a new skill, meeting interesting people as a result, getting to work alongside uber-talented builders that leave me feeling so out of my league, improving and refining my ideas, and getting to express myself on what I consider an amazing canvas.

I predict no big names going anywhere. The big names didn't get big by being spoon-fed, they didn't get big by not adapting to change, the didn't get big as a result of artificial incentives to create, they didn't get big by being negative and inflexible in their thinking. They will adapt, survive and thrive. They got big by loving what they do, expending a lot of energy, using their intelligence and talent, honing their skills, being pragmatically business-like enough to facilitate their creation, by having ideas and by having a can-do attitude. You should try it sometime, it's fun and makes you happy and satisfied.

Second Life is free for new players. Forever.

If you look at other online games, you'll see that many of them cost about 50USD in the store and then it's another 10 bucks or so every month to play. That's 60 USD right off the bat. That 60 USD could buy a new player a ton of lindens. Heck, 10 USD a month would.

I think many of us see SL as this Utopian online world where everything is free, and a lot of it is. But it has to stop somewhere.

<blinks>

Like all the other times this has been predicted? Or will it happen this time?

What about the domino effect that this is going to have on some creators of content, especially clothes, hair and jewelry?

Right now when I see that cool red outfit that looks like nothing I have ever seen before, I buy it to enter the next red contest at the clubs and hopefully win to pay for it. Once the clubs and such close down from this, there will be no reason for me to buy it anymore. So now the content creator that they supposedly want to reward by this move has also lost. And if the content creator no longer makes money then they will stop creating.

why do you buy clothing in RL?

I've asked myself that same question. I hate this bra.