Are we going to stand for this ?

When I'm dead. Literally.

And I don't remember seeing anywhere where LL giving out rewards was a part of the TOS. It was nice of them to do so, but it was a reward. Not a payment for services rendered.

Good luck on getting an audience to pay, even with very compelling entertainment. It sounds all nice and a good solution for entertainers, however, many folks are pretty strapped for L$ as is, and seeing a price tag on an event will indeed turn many of them away.

So will good events cater to folks with L$'s and turn away those without? Definitely not the direction I'd like to see things go, but that's just me.

I remember clearly everyone saying the same thing when LL dropped most event support. And, as we've seen, it didn't work out well, either with paying events or with "better, compelling" events. It became a commercial/dwell/yard sale event spree.

Now with dwell going, what will happen? Some folks will not be effected, and some will. Some will probably even leave SL for other environments. It sure won't kill SL, and it does cater to those that are here to make and sell L$, but it DOES effect some in a negative fashion, and I can understand how they feel.

Again though, I'm not sure if backing the average SL consumer further and further into the use-Lindex corner is the smartest business move. Making a thriving world full of fun social and creative endeavors is.

But there are plenty of other MMORPG kinda things out there, and a few SL-like social programs coming out soon, so no one is forced to stay and pay. I will continue, as always, to socialize and do small events, free of charge, but I won't, and haven't made a habit of buying L$ for quite some time now, which means I will purchase far less SL fluff from content creators. Perhaps LL is right and a better balance will be reached. There's always a first time for everything...

Jillian's original point is that the money paid to LL does not garauntee access to all the content you'd like/want. The only things LL gives you access to is the world, the building tools, and the people inside.

I have talked for a long time about how people started needing to pay for all their content, including their entertainment. Sure, there will people who are focused on free content, and I have no doubt they will be popular not for their content, but because they are free.

I honestly hope some of the bigger venues start charging though. The money that can be made by charging admission could more than make up the mone lost in dwell. At the same time, I like Flip's, Siggy's, and En's ideas about sponsorship. Both models will be interesting to see in practice and I'm anxious to see if either of them play out well.

I hope though that this helps break the stigma behind charging for your entertainment. As one of SL's longest pure entertainers, it's been a very big obstacle to overcome, and I hope to see things get better as time goes on.

You utterly miss my point entirely.

You don't need SALES to support it.

Let me break it down again for you.

Some build content because they like it - not because they get $$$ - this is good, none of these issues will ever worry those people.

Content can be a texture, an animation, an object, a gadget, or.... entertainment... entertainment IS content.

This isn't what I'm saying - I'm saying 'think outside the box - entertainment is content - and good content DESERVES to compensated for the work involved - but you must think outside the box to make that work'

Now heres what *I* personally intend on doing during the next stage of my project.. its no secret that I'll soon be buying an island and moving waterworks to it - I plan on having a substantial portion of that as a public theme park area - a smaller part to showcase my swimming pools and a portion for my personal use.

I fully intend on seeking out entertainment/events/classes that work in with my theme, and paying for them to be held there.. I haven't hammered out figures yet - but for suitable classes I am looking hoping that 2500 L$ for a class a suitable reward for the instructor.. giveaway money for contests doesn't come out of that either. I'm thinking to host a radioshow/party there I would pay around 10k L$.

Again I'll be looking for applicable high quality people for things like this.

SOMEONE has to pay - but I'm banking that if *I* pay I will attract people who will stay - have fun - tell their friends - and of course a few of those people will buy my products, and everyone comes out of the deal happy.

Thank you for so kindly putting it in terms someone of my limited intellectual capacity can grasp.


In - Forsetti - a rational, reasonable fashion. There are actually more opinions in the world, Forsetti, than those that belong to Siggy and/or you, and mine is one of them. An individual who holds a different opinion from you or Siggy - based on their own experiences as actually different people - doesn't mean that individual is a cretin, a moron, a retard, or unreasonable or irrational.

coco

Well... I dunno that it is as straightforward as that. Tringo I might give you as people do genuinely enjoy playing and get addicted. The rest I am not so sure about. The owners have had a financial incentive to get people into the clubs and onto their land, and have employed various methods to do that, including the ubiquitous camping chairs, grouping people before they have got off the orientation islands, and flooding the events list.

When you first come into SL, it is jolly confusing. A lot of people just follow the dots, and visit the places where there are a lot of people apparently. They are often disappointed to find a lot of afk avatars in camping chairs. Lots go to clubs as a way of meeting people, because the other events, like new resident and mentor events, have dropped off except in specific places like Teazers and the Shelter. When I first came into SL there were about 100 sims, 10,000 residents and SL Basics, Scripting basics, building basics every day and sometimes several times a day. Now you have to wade through an awful lot of club events and yard sales to find that sort of thing.

I don't think that they are popular becase they are what people like and want. Some people like and want them true. And for them, I don't desire to kill them off, not at all. But hardly anyone I know in SL likes the "be the best in black/red/wet t-shirt" type of event. There has to be some balance.

At present the dwell system is supporting the lower common denominator, and it has grown over the past year until it has overwhelmed everything else. People don't bother with the events list any more because it is full of the same old events...and so people running different events struggle to get more than a handful of friends to their events.

Surprisingly, I would like people to come to the events I run, not because I want to score on dwell or sales, but because I like running events and like meeting new people. Maybe there has to be a new way of organising things. But I don't think a system which supports one type of activity to the exclusion of others is a healthy thing for SL.

People who get to Numbakulla are amazed and love it. That's great. But they are a tiny tiny fraction of the people who are in world. I posted a walkthrough and got one person. I would be quite prepared to believe they were the only ones interested if it weren't for the fact that so many people are knocked over by the place when they get there. I think my free events which don't hope for or need dwell, are being drowned by the best bum competitions. I'm not saying best bum competitions are wrong, or that people shouldn't be able to have them...but they shouldn't be the ONLY thing on offer.

Maybe it does mean fewer people. Maybe it means the same people have to use their ingenuity to develop ways of creating things that people may pay for. Maybe linking everything to money and paying is going to be a bad thing...but I run events without worrying about the dwell or what I might gain from it - other than meeting great people - and I know I am not the only one. Maybe that sort of event will gain ground.
Cali

To the first - your welcome - sometimes the 'special' need a lil help.

Now for the later if you 'got it' then going to the trouble of replying whilst fabricating a message cunningly crafted to 'nearly but not quite' get what I was saying really seems like a lot of trouble for a minimal reward.

Now I certainly didn't treat you as a cretin or a retard or unreasonable or irrational - but if you would like me to in the future, I'd be very more than happy to accomodate you in that regard.

You've proved to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that you and I cannot have reasonable discourse - I tried in this thread and you insist on nailing yourself to the fucking cross yet again.

Maybe you should take your own advice - as listed below in my sig line.

By the way, I don't blame ANYONE for choosing to post as an alt on these forums.

coco

By the way, I don't blame ANYONE for choosing to post as an alt on these forums.

coco

By the way, I don't blame ANYONE for choosing to post as an alt on these forums.

coco

Hey, so was it decided whether or not we're going to stand for this?

What are we standing for again? I forgot already.

Er, cos the comic tragedy called Dwell has come to the final act, and we're giving a standing ovation as the curtain falls for the last time?

Oh yeah, that's right. Thanks. Wake me up when the world ends.

Let me tell you something about how SL loves the "common player":

(words)

Some of y'all go to more lengths to be snotty and sarcastic than any other bunch of people I ever met. You practically make an art form out of it.

Except that it is crummy art, and goes on for way too long.

That's more or less what a lot of outsiders thought about dueling, too.