SL Forums: Whose Culture is it Anyway?

As far as I know, anyone with an account in SL is a resident or SL, regardless of where they come from, and I would not deem non-Americans as "guests" to SL.

You are only a guest of a sim you do not regular attend and identify with. And there is plenty of room and leeway for sim owners to set up a sim based on whatever culture they wish to. Is there someone somehow stopping non-Americans from doing so?

The tools themselves are culture-neutral, as I gather is the means of local rule enforcement for sims.

The only point I've noticed made in this regard is that there is a predominate American prescense in SL, and thus a predominate disposition to a Westernized culture, but this does not make those outside of that culture "guests".

Yet you felt free to comment on them. If you had, it may have modified your opinion on these events somewhat.

I was disappointed to find after reading the three pages of discussion that occured after I went to sleep, that you didn't respond to my reaction to your post. Your statement, to the effect that we are guests of the US, is the only post thus far I can recall drawing any sort of offense from.

Actually we are all guests of LL, American or not - we are here at their whim. According to the TOS, we can be removed at any time for any reason.

So what does a fuckload convert to in metric exactly?

Point well made. (Touche!)

It is metric - its an Australian measurement

I'm not sure what the Imperial measurement is.

Speaking of culture - America uses the Imperial measurement system - but I don't think England does.

I think you struck the reason why it wasn't read

It's more than fuck all, if that helps.

1 fuckload = 2 tons of bullshit

There are infinite Fuck alls in a shitload
10 shitloads are in a pile of crap
I0 piles of crap are in a fuckload

tons of bullshit are an imperial measure, and spinners was a crude approximation

1 fuckload is actually 2.1478 tons of bullshit

Oh you been sleeping with in llabs again a

Brenda, I appreciate this is your opinion, but I think you put words in my mouth... repeatedly. I ignore no one's contribution-- if they make a contribution. I am neither bigoted or prejudiced or narcisistic (as you twice so kindly pointed out, and thank you for such useful and obviously insightful observations. I'm so relieved you don't suffer from that malady).

Maxx oh-so-cleverly made a direct attack on my motives and person. I have never in these forums nor in a year and a half of Second Life mentioned to anyone my RL charitable activities. That's RL and that's where it belongs. But when someone attacks my motives and reputation, I do have the right to set the matter straight.

I wasn't telling anyone what a wonderful person I am. I was defending myself against his slanderous post. And his return claim that he spends his RL time "kinda like yours" holds zero credibility in my book (frankly, at this point I wouldn't believe him if he presented a notarized document). Like most people, he may contribute something from time to time, but the concept of him spending most of his time in RL charitable activities doesn't even enter the profile. Then he claims he "doesn't have to brag"... why no, he's too busy boosting his own ego by putting down other users to do that. (Excuse my being blunt, but respectfulness and tact doesn't seem to be all that popular here).

My reason to leave this-- and all these forums-- is not based on "convenience" as you claim. I don't have to "win" some imagined argument. It's based on a realization that this is a tremendous waste of time. Nothing can be discussed on these forums without dealing with people like Siggy and Maxx and dozens of others who are incapable of simply discussing issues of Second Life. They enjoy pushing buttons and harassing and insulting-- and that's not the kind of association I seek in my life. From what I've seen in this thread alone, the Linden Lab concept of "PG" is basically just unenforced lip-service. Pardon me if I move away from the sewage outlet.



I never said all.



Brenda, I see in your posts a repetitive tendency to generalize observations into the category of "all" when the original poster did not use such a term. I spoke of the human race as a majority. There are obviously millions of people on this earth who do care for others, who would change things if they could, who really do try to help. But if these were the majority, our society would be far more peaceful, far more co-operative, far more pleasant.

I appreciate these are your opinions, but wake up and look around you. Mankind is destroying the very planet he lives on and is apparently fully-bent on self-annihilation. Such is not the action of a sane, rational creature.

But, enough of this. The only way I'm going to spend my time more fruitfully is to close the door firmly behind me. If the clowns want to have a hayday from here on out... go ahead. Wallow in the mire all you want. LOL

Slander is spoken.
Libel is written.

Seeing how we're all about pedantism these days.

But don't take my word for it - after all I use norti words

I didn't know there was a revolving door on this thread!

Yeah, Wayfinder's post made me sad, time for comfort food.

/me wears a monocle

Lord Siggy, do you have any Grey Poupon? (c/TM/whatever)

Dude, really

What a waste of words.... erm bytes, just call me a retard. Use your rights dammit xD

n00b!1

I have no way of knowing who you are RL, but in this public forum what I can see are your posts. So I replied to the argument that you made as it was written. If you meant something else, you should have said so.

You're not in a private room here where everyone knows you personally and also knows the whole history of your interactions with everyone else. If you really want to be understood, your posts should stand clearly by themselves. Especially given their length.



Guess what, they are the majority. Do you only count the value of work done for other human beings if it is done with fanfare on a hilltop? Every person who struggles to feed and raise their children right has put their effort into a better future. Community is built on the ground, and not by rescuers only, but also, and primarily, by the people who live there.

We have a wonderful opportunity in SL to begin to build an international community on the ground, one person at a time, without fanfare or attention being given to most of the contributors, and including some people you don't like. Just like any organic community.



I don't think absorbing your negative opinion of humanity would add anything to whatever level of enlightenment I might possess. I see humanity as a resource to leverage for mutual benefit, not a burden to control. And, it is that same humanity that has earned my regard as something worth saving. Evil humans are the exception, not the rule.

Humans are all you've got to save the planet with. This is Earth.



You write stuff like this and then wonder why I thought it sounded narcissistic. Oh my.

I'm interested to find the conversion between shedloads and metric fucktons. Does anyone know the exact figure? I think it's around 4.7.

My weekend turned out busy, so catching up today...expect a string of posts

I'm going to be doing some major snippage on Wayfinder's post for brevity. I will try very hard to keep the context intact.



We're not talking about law, we're talking about Linden Lab's forum policies. The fact that LL is an American company does not mean necessarily that its customer policies are exclusively based on American rules. Smart American companies with multi-national customers operate with an awareness and accommodation of multi-cultural sensabilities.

Also, what are U.S. social concepts anyway? As myself and others have pointed out in this thread, there is no uniform opinion even in the U.S. on what constitutes obscene.



The definition of PG applies to U.S. films and related media and is not understood and is not the same in other countries. Fade provided an example. I believe there were a couple of others too. PG also means Parental Guidance. Since we're all adults here, how can that apply?



This is the heart of the manner. Until Linden Labs rules on these issues, people will do as they think best. If LL wants certain words not used on the forums, then they will add them, or a clear definition to the TOS. If they don't care about them, then no action will be forthcoming.



The majority of the of the forums may be a business board, however, the fact that the general, notices and well wishes, and off-topic areas exist demonstrates that LL also wants its customers to have a place to discuss all kinds of things.

The TOS has clear language about personal attacks. I agree that anyone posting one should receive swift, consistant response from a moderator. I also think that LL should hire a moderator instead of messing around with this volunteer thing and all the erratic results that has produced.



Regardless, what is considered obscene language varies significantly just among the major English-speaking countries. Australia, for whatever reason, has very different ideas. Certain idioms are culture based. And I haven't even discussed the differences between how working class people and white-collar people view appropriate language.

IMO the answer to this is for Linden Labs, if this is an issue that concerns them, add a clear definition of appropriate language to the TOS. In the meantime, those who are offended I think should use the ignore key, or AR if they so choose.

Regardless of percentages, we are a multi-cultural forum with a wide range of ideas and cultural mores. It will only become moreso in the future as SL gets deeper penetration into other countries. Only LL has the power to decide what they want.

It is the essential point. We can discuss endlessly, but Linden Labs decides.

We've seen that personal attacks are punished, perhaps not as quickly or even-handedly as they should be. I've yet to hear of anyone getting warned for using an "obscene" word provided the context was not attacking. Maybe they have decided?

I used Siggy as an example in this thread because he is Australian and I felt would be able to give a good view of just how much cultural expectations can differ even when you speak the same language.

In my experience, Coco's issues with Siggy go way back. Based on her behavior towards other people, myself included, I believe her issues are her own. It appears to me that the Lindens have weighed in. Coco attacked - suspended, Siggy did not attack - not suspended.

Adults are responsible for their own actions. Unless someone is holding a gun to your head, no one can force you to respond in an inappropriate way. The "they made me do it" argument isn't a defense - especially in an anonymous medium like this forum. If you feel attacked, you can choose to stay engaged, and perhaps act badly. Or, you can choose to ignore the person and go about your business.

If you feel that people need to control their language, then I assume you would agree that people need to control their actions.

I think that caught me up...

I just want to thank everyone who posted in this thread. So many different points of view and interesting facts. This has been one of the most enjoyable threads I've participated in in a long time.

Fact:

The quote of mine that Siggy has in his signature - for WHATEVER REASON HE HAS IT THERE - is actually something I wrote responding to another guy.

The other guy had said something like: "If you don't like [something I didn't agree with], then get the funk off the forums."

I disagreed responded by saying, "If you don't like [reading other opinions, I believe I said], then get the funk off the forums."

Commentary:

Siggy seized on that to put in his signature, possibly forevermore, for his personal pleasure, whatever that may be, out of context. It is not a sentence I would normally have written.

It was written that way in order to make a direct point regarding the sentence that had just been written by some other guy before me.

Personal Opinion:

Language itself doesn't bother me; personal attacks do. Personal attacks containing crude language bother me the most.

I agree with Wayfinder that a business-like company and forums should not allow, for example, the use of the f-word (or any of it's lesser forms).

Further Commentary:

See the post I made regarding law on SLUniverse.

coco

I knew a guy once who ran over a puppy. It wasn't something that, normally, the guy would have done.

But the guy still ran over a puppy.

Has nothing to do with the point at hand, but have a look all over the forums, people have quotes in siglines everywhere - things that they find amusing.

I find that amusing.

Yes see the post on 'law' on SLU - definately.

Yes!

*points below*