Lords and Peasants

Sure it's enterprising, I don't mind them one way or another. I mean, I personally would rather be playing a game than just sitting there, but you're more than welcome to buy up all the land around me and FILL it with them... I'll just go build in a sandbox when it gets too laggy at my home.

You are taking coals to Newcastle when you try to explain to me about the work involved in physical content creation.

coco

but isn't this a platform where people have the ability to create, make money and possibly turn it into real life dollars?

and there can be more varied entertainment 4 the population ... if people make an effort 2 learn n create. again, why wait 4 it 2 b given 2 u?

You guys just don't get it.

People don't pay to attend events in SL, they demand to be PAID to attend events. Its a twisted legacy leftover from when LL used to subsidize events and its pretty much screwed with anyone who wants to hold events and charge a fee.

Really? That's rough.

Must be in the minority.

Developing a product doesn't take me two months, no sir. It doesn't take hours of scripting and experimentation. Nor does it take hours in photoshop making textures, logos and marketing materials.

It doesn't take me weeks of QA testing to make sure all my inter-related systems are playing nice together. It doesn't take me hours of revising scripts to make my bugs go away.

Documentation? Oh, that's not a problem. It writes itself! Never takes me hours, no way.

Customers? Nah! They never have questions. I never spend a few hours a week helping out with customer questions or clarifying the way certain features work.

Marketing? Phht! I only have to spend ten minutes on marketing. What works one day will work forever.

Sales? Those remain constant! Doesn't matter if I don't crank out any new product for months at a time. They just keep selling at the same pace they do the first weekend.

Seriously, making a quality product takes me all of half an hour. I wish the thing into existence and there it is! Then I can kick back for years and just count the L$.

Well, I've explained the economic benefit differential I feel there is between providing entertainment and providing "physical" content in a virtual world.

Hopefully, now that the game is free, this will possibly change.

In the meantime, I think they lose too many players to the fact that essentially, SL doesn't offer enough variety or enough to do.

coco

You know, all this sarcasm would have more punch if it actually applied to me in any way. As I said, you are taking coals to Newcastle.

coco

Yeah? How's your customer base compared to Luskwood Creatures? Having the temerity to claim equality with...

Christ, that's like me walking up to Microsoft and saying "Hey fuckos, this is how you do QA!"

You do seem to get really bent out of shape, Enabran. I work as hard as any of you in this game, that is my point - and moreover, I do it creating physical content, just as you do.

You'd think you were having a fight with a club owner or something.

coco

oright so that's a problem .. but what I'm not understanding is, and maybe it's just me, why just sit and talk about it - waiting to see what Linden will come up with? y not try 2 figure out a way, form a discussion/idea group ... make up a proposal or gameplan?

I was amazed like 6-8 months ago when I met the first person I had ever met in SL who classified themselves as a "consumer", and I was a little confused as to why they wanted to be here in the first place for a while... She said she hadn't even TRIED building or scripting or anything, and didn't intend to. I welcome them with open arms, and they're more than welcome to do whatever they like, but I'd probably be playing World of Warcraft a lot more if I couldn't create stuff here.

I think one of the fundamental concepts here is "user-created" fun, not Linden-supported fun. They make the box, we can put whatever we want in the box. I don't want them to drop pie into the box, because then it will be a watered down, politically-correct, made-for-the-masses pie. I want EVERYONE out there who is talented enough to make pie to go out and do it, and I'll buy the pies I like from them.

Not if it's a game to you.

You sure are proud of your little houses, though, aren't you!

I was in the (apparently short-lived) events workgroup for just that reason, Sienna.

As for waiting to see what the Lindens will come up with, a lot of it has been in the direction of penalizing entertainment/events.

. Just before I arrived, they removed the event subsidies.

. They then limited the events one could list to three a day - taking it up to 5 a day after people like me strongly advised their doing so at those event workgroups. They also created the categories as a result of those workgroup meetings, and that was great.

. They almost removed the Classifieds on the forums.

. They removed the "events" button and replaced it with a build button.

coco

Is there some reason I shouldn't be, Enabran?

coco

ooooo oright now i get it, ur thinking of it as a game. not being mean but, this isn't a game, it's opportunity.

But Jamie, I think Michi's point is if someone came up with a good enough event, people would pay for it. I know I would. I'm not going to pay someone to stream MP3's to me while I run a dance animation on loop and talk to people. I'm sure a lot of people out there enjoy that, I personally do not. I think if enough people REALLY, REALLY did enjoy it, you could charge for it.

If there was a cinema showing SL-made machinima, I'd pay to go see it.
Hell, if there was a clever enough poetry reading or game I'd pay for it, I went to a couple "Slictionary"/"Primtionary" events and payed money into the pot recently because I had a lot of fun.

I agree with you totally! I'm COMPLETELY here for the fun of making things, and I think that is obviously and clearly the "hook" of SL, and something that never stops drawing people.

But due to the constraints of entertainment, as opposed to re-sellable physical content, I don't think the opportunities are there yet for entertainers. (And they way things are going, it's getting worse.)

coco

I started trying to hold events 2 weeks before they pulled out the Linden-support money for events too. But I said, "Oh well" and went on doing other things. If I end up making a game, I'll probably hold events to play it, even if they have entirely eliminated dwell by the time I finally get around to finishing one of my inworld game ideas.

No, it's a game, because I want it to be a game.

And it's marketed in gaming websites.

So it must be a game.

I want it to be a game.

For me.

There is no way!!!

People have TRIED!!!

I use the word "game". That doesn't exclude any concept of opportunity, nor my taking advantage of that opportunity. It's just a word.

coco

oright b4 i go on let me correct my name, it's Sierra (thought it was a typo b4 lol)

but i'm curious ... y was the group "short-lived"? what was the reason that it no longer worked? was it due 2 2 much effort or lack of support or something else?

Hey, you know what's crap, guys? The cable company is only getting $70 a month from me. For providing all those hours of entertainment! Think about those bastard car companies who sell those damn cars ONCE and make all that money. It's disgusting!

"But Jamie, I think Michi's point is if someone came up with a good enough event, people would pay for it. I know I would. I'm not going to pay someone to stream MP3's to me while I run a dance animation on loop and talk to people. I'm sure a lot of people out there enjoy that, I personally do not. I think if enough people REALLY, REALLY did enjoy it, you could charge for it."

You'd think so, Logan. But I think what you run up against here is what I used to call the "worker-bee Sim" phenomenon. (Sim being the term for avatars in TSO.)

People - even on a game/platform/okra - tend to feel rather guilty if they aren't accomplishing something. Yup, yup! That's why the money balls and dwell chairs are good. They kind of make you feel less guilty for not WORKING on something.

The idea of paying to goof off is kind of contrary to that work ethic that even game-players have in spades. (Win that tournament; conquer that level; set that record; earn those advertising contracts; etc.)

Once INSIDE the entertainment, even though it is in our free hours, we tend to want to be productive. I think that's the psychology of it.

That is why I think paying for entertainment (with a very few exceptions) doesn't work in here or in any online environment. But, as I said, that may change.

Meanwhile, I think the entertainment sector needs something, and in fact, they have just gotten things taken away.

coco

Exactly what I did!

People told me to come here and do Game Show Channel, which I'd been doing for over a year.

I looked at the economic environment, looked around and said, "Oh, well," and went on to do other things which I enjoy equally, if not more.

It is for the balance of the game that I advocate more support for entertainers, since too many of them do what you and I did.

coco