Dear employees of anshechung.com...
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Jonquille Noir
Lemon Fresh
Join date: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,025
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12-22-2005 16:18
Helloooooooo! Have you not noticed the dozens of threads about those signs? The hotline posts? People bitching about them up one side and down the other? Did none of that sink it at all? Or are you just grasping for something to put people down about. I understand you like to come into a thread and tsk-tsk everyone, but for fuck's sake, at least don't be so damned transparent. From: Cocoanut Koala Without getting into (or paying much attention to) all the he saids and she saids, I just wish people would get as worked up about somebody spamming the entire landscape with huge, visual notecards you have to pay thousands to not see as they do over one lousy notecard that can be deleted in an instant.
But - oh yeah, the signs and land extortion prices are "free speech" but this isn't. OK, I'm straight on that now. This notecard is against the rules!
coco
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Little Rebel Designs
Gallinas
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Pol Tabla
synthpop saint
Join date: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,041
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12-22-2005 16:35
Fortunately it's not up to you to decide what is spam, Anshe. I don't care if you receive 100's of notecards; I do not, nor do I ever want to. That's what this thread is about. Anyone who sends an unsolicited commercial message to me will get exactly the same reaction. It just so happens that anshechung.com is the first to send me one in the 2 years that I've been a member of SL. Please consider this thread my way of thanking you.
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Joy Honey
Not just another dumass
Join date: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 3,751
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12-22-2005 16:40
From: Anshe Chung Hi, I am sorry if anybody feels offended by having received a quote for his sim from us. If you received a notecard from us this was: a) after one of us individually teleported to your sim and assessed it b) personally read your profile c) manually checked your online status You then were manually handed one notecard that explained to you a) what we do with private estate sims b) why this particular week we need more sims c) why we can offer you a good price for your sim just now Spam is if you send lots of messages to lots of people and usually this is done in automated ways. As I said above, we assessed each sim individually, manually and made an offer where we considered it appropriate. There are many sims where we did not make an offer for one reason or another. As such, we did not spam and never did so before. I really don't see how calling us out on the forums for sending quotes to some selected sim owners, after we visited each sim individually, would contribute positively to anything in any way. I am however not going speculate about other people's real motivations. Anyway, let me thank some posters for their suggestions on this thread. Flipper, I am sure the ideas you shared are well meant. I would wish your opt-out concept would also work with advertising billboards that you placed in residential areas all over Second Life. This week I myself received more than 100 items/notecards/cards from people I have never done business with. They were all Christmas wishes, usually containing some prominently displayed business/brand name/logo or even the landmark to some store. I did not mind, most I just ignored. Some I looked at, in one case I found one interesting product sample, tried it and even went to the retailer's store. If anyone on this thread really is concerned about receiving uninvited items/communication, then I suggest to make one general thread and address this issue in general, or to systematically abuse report the many businesses (most of them content creators) who send greetings, wishes, ads, free samples or information to people at about every holiday occasion. But being silent, not bother for months, but then come to forum and shout ANSHECHUNG.COM all over, after receive one quote from us that was handed to you manually after one manual review of your sim is definitely uncalled for. Btw, many sim owners were quite happy to have received our quote. Not only one, but several happily took the chance and sold their sim to us. Being approached by us was highly useful to them. I am sorry this wasn't the case with everybody we contacted. In any case I like to wish everybody here one Merry XMas  Anshe, maybe if you or one of your agents IMed someone first and asked if they were interested in selling? Just a thought. I think that since notecards, like textures, just open on the receiver's screen, it would be nice to find out if they are interested before sending something that pops up on someone's screen. Hell, my browser has a pop up blocker.... ooo I see a feature suggestion. Like when someone sends you items and you get the message asking to accept or decline... why don't notecards and textures/photos do that?
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Reality continues to ruin my life. - Calvin
You have delighted us long enough. - Jane Austen
Sometimes I need what only you can provide: your absence. - Ashleigh Brilliant
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Moopf Murray
Moopfmerising
Join date: 7 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,448
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12-22-2005 16:45
From: finn Jensen Moopf in the examples above, there was nothing aimed directly at anyone, if anyone felt they were a target, that is because of their analyze of themself?
I admit my respond to you in game was not professional, I know I should have been polite or ignored an Im saying I do not want any of your spam notecards or Ims. So I apologize to you for the in game respond Moopf ( Your Im was just so unexpected, especailly the tone).
What has been said here in the forums , lets say I have been arguing in my sparetime, beliving this thread was more or less a joke. My tone, and I'll repeat "my tone" for the benefit of anybody who may have missed it: From: someone Hi. Can you remove me from your notecard distribution list please - I'm not interested in recieving such spam That was my tone. Nothing nasty, nothing antagonistic - just saying "do not send me your spam". As for the rest of your post. I just have to say you're an absolute fucking idiot who shouldn't be coming within a 100 miles of a customer facing position. You just simply do not get it. |
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Moopf Murray
Moopfmerising
Join date: 7 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,448
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12-22-2005 16:51
From: Anshe Chung Hi, I am sorry if anybody feels offended by having received a quote for his sim from us. If you received a notecard from us this was: a) after one of us individually teleported to your sim and assessed it b) personally read your profile c) manually checked your online status You then were manually handed one notecard that explained to you a) what we do with private estate sims b) why this particular week we need more sims c) why we can offer you a good price for your sim just now Spam is if you send lots of messages to lots of people and usually this is done in automated ways. As I said above, we assessed each sim individually, manually and made an offer where we considered it appropriate. There are many sims where we did not make an offer for one reason or another. As such, we did not spam and never did so before. I really don't see how calling us out on the forums for sending quotes to some selected sim owners, after we visited each sim individually, would contribute positively to anything in any way. I am however not going speculate about other people's real motivations. Anyway, let me thank some posters for their suggestions on this thread. Flipper, I am sure the ideas you shared are well meant. I would wish your opt-out concept would also work with advertising billboards that you placed in residential areas all over Second Life. This week I myself received more than 100 items/notecards/cards from people I have never done business with. They were all Christmas wishes, usually containing some prominently displayed business/brand name/logo or even the landmark to some store. I did not mind, most I just ignored. Some I looked at, in one case I found one interesting product sample, tried it and even went to the retailer's store. If anyone on this thread really is concerned about receiving uninvited items/communication, then I suggest to make one general thread and address this issue in general, or to systematically abuse report the many businesses (most of them content creators) who send greetings, wishes, ads, free samples or information to people at about every holiday occasion. But being silent, not bother for months, but then come to forum and shout ANSHECHUNG.COM all over, after receive one quote from us that was handed to you manually after one manual review of your sim is definitely uncalled for. Btw, many sim owners were quite happy to have received our quote. Not only one, but several happily took the chance and sold their sim to us. Being approached by us was highly useful to them. I am sorry this wasn't the case with everybody we contacted. In any case I like to wish everybody here one Merry XMas Good grief Anshe, please spin away! I've never had a bad word to say against you before but standing up for unsolicited advertising (which is pretty important in the definition of spam, regardless of what you may think) and not even adressing the totally unacceptable way in which your representative dealt with complaints (want the transcript? more than happy to provide it) really does erode any respect I had for you. And as for being silent. I approached this in exactly the same way as I always do with unsolicited, spam, notecards: 1. IM the person to tell them it's not wanted again. 2. If it happens again AR them. Unforutnately in the case of your representative I was subjected to a response that caused me to just AR it straight off. I've never really thought you were full of shit until now. |
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Finn Jensen
Registered User
Join date: 5 Jul 2004
Posts: 140
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12-22-2005 17:25
I apologize and is beeing called a fucking idiot, so what do you want me to do, come and give you a hug in game?
The problem with your request was that there IS no list to remove you from, which I explained to you. Maybe you could send me the transcript on a notecard so I would excatly remember what was said? I promise not to AR you for it
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Moopf Murray
Moopfmerising
Join date: 7 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,448
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12-22-2005 17:33
From: finn Jensen I apologize and is beeing called a fucking idiot, so what do you want me to do, come and give you a hug in game?
The problem with your request was that there IS no list to remove you from, which I explained to you. Maybe you could send me the transcript on a notecard so I would excatly remember what was said? I promise not to AR you for it You apologise at the same time as trying to back-track and are still being dismissive. You said you should have just ignored my IM? You say you directed nothing at anybody who complained in this thread? You say you've just considered this thread a joke? Oh, but you apologised in the midst of all that. Sorry, must of missed that, it all got clogged up in the other things you said. That's why you're an idiot and shouldn't come near customer service. Mind you, your employer doesn't seem to have a problem with it. Maybe you're in line for a bonus! I'll happily send you the transcript when I'm next in-world. I think you'll find that you couldn't AR me for sending you a transcript of a conversation that happened between you and me, but then let's not cow-tow to the obvious eh, shall we. Oh and you've solicited it as well! Double no-AR |
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Aaron Levy
Medicated Lately?
Join date: 3 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,147
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12-22-2005 17:40
What in the hell is there to "manually assess" on a sim?
It's a bunch of code running on a server that you'll wipe clean if you buy it. There... there's your manual assessment.
And I must say Anshe -- your writing style changes from post to post. How many people are using that account anyway?
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Sexy Partridge
Registered User
Join date: 5 Feb 2005
Posts: 208
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12-22-2005 17:51
how can they can away with sending you notecards/im's time after time. When I owned the Pink rose, I got a disciplinary letter from lindens saying I violated TOS because I sent out one single notecard and an IM to someone ONE time to see if they were interested in renting form me.  I guess I didn't own enough land to be able to be annoying? |
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Toy LaFollette
I eat paintchips
Join date: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,359
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12-22-2005 17:54
From: Anshe Chung Hi, I am sorry if anybody feels offended by having received a quote for his sim from us. If you received a notecard from us this was: a) after one of us individually teleported to your sim and assessed it b) personally read your profile c) manually checked your online status You then were manually handed one notecard that explained to you a) what we do with private estate sims b) why this particular week we need more sims c) why we can offer you a good price for your sim just now Spam is if you send lots of messages to lots of people and usually this is done in automated ways. As I said above, we assessed each sim individually, manually and made an offer where we considered it appropriate. There are many sims where we did not make an offer for one reason or another. As such, we did not spam and never did so before. I really don't see how calling us out on the forums for sending quotes to some selected sim owners, after we visited each sim individually, would contribute positively to anything in any way. I am however not going speculate about other people's real motivations. Anyway, let me thank some posters for their suggestions on this thread. Flipper, I am sure the ideas you shared are well meant. I would wish your opt-out concept would also work with advertising billboards that you placed in residential areas all over Second Life. This week I myself received more than 100 items/notecards/cards from people I have never done business with. They were all Christmas wishes, usually containing some prominently displayed business/brand name/logo or even the landmark to some store. I did not mind, most I just ignored. Some I looked at, in one case I found one interesting product sample, tried it and even went to the retailer's store. If anyone on this thread really is concerned about receiving uninvited items/communication, then I suggest to make one general thread and address this issue in general, or to systematically abuse report the many businesses (most of them content creators) who send greetings, wishes, ads, free samples or information to people at about every holiday occasion. But being silent, not bother for months, but then come to forum and shout ANSHECHUNG.COM all over, after receive one quote from us that was handed to you manually after one manual review of your sim is definitely uncalled for. Btw, many sim owners were quite happy to have received our quote. Not only one, but several happily took the chance and sold their sim to us. Being approached by us was highly useful to them. I am sorry this wasn't the case with everybody we contacted. In any case I like to wish everybody here one Merry XMas Fair warning, do not ever come and assess any of my property...Im not interested in selling any of it. And if this post is the way your conduct business I would rather give a sim away, which I have done before, rather than sell to you... kthxbye
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"So you see, my loyalty lies with Second Life, not with Linden Lab. Where I perceive the actions of Linden Lab to be in conflict with the best interests of Second Life, I side with Second Life."-Jacek
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Jillian Callahan
Rotary-winged Neko Girl
Join date: 24 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,766
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12-22-2005 19:07
A thread chock full of proof that - paralelling the old truism that an evil man does nothing evil in his own eyes - a spammer passes no spam in his own eyes.
There's no convincing 'em. It's wrong to spam, and they know they don't do wrong things. They'll have any nuber of (astonishingly dynamic) arguments as to why thier notecard/e-mail wasn't spam, but instead... a service! Yes! A service... or a... seasonal greeting! Yes, that's what it was, with a little business tacked in becasue, well, you'd want to know. Part of the service.
If you ever do manage to make them see it was spam, then they switch to: "It was only one". Which is true. It was only the one. It's not relevant - the one time was one intrusion amongst many (from others, but still). Doesn't matter to the spammer at all.
...
Ok, I lied. It does matter to the spammer, but he's denying that he's made a mistake, so he can't really act on it.
Unlss he's one of them evil people - then just forget it.
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Musicteacher Rampal
Registered User
Join date: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 824
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12-22-2005 20:05
From: finn Jensen The issue I had with Moopf was that he wanted to be removed from a list, a list I do not have. It was not like I was planning to contact him another time either, so I did not see why it was so importnat to make a list for a one time thing. So I replied about , fine if you do not want to sell, then just have a merry christmas lol. Then it went on for a few lines about some list and spam. I think I said something like I am not going to make a list of people who I am not supposed to talk to under any cisrcumstances, but if you insist I can make a picky, touchy ppl list and add you there. I must say I thought this guy was joking with me and wanted to have a cheek in tongue conversation, but I was wrong so I aplogize. He was actually death serious that one cannot ask him a question without him getting upset. I am sure that clicking discard took like 1 sec, all IMs and posting in forums 1h?
I repeat I have during my 1.5 year stay sent out 40 notecards, all to peoples whose sims I visited, some for quite a while. I could have sent an offline IM also yes. But this particular individual asked not to be IMed either, so I guess the outcome had been the same.
But I have learned my lesson, do not contact people in SL no matter what, it might piss them off. I guess the old phrase "Get a life" would fit in here. If you insist on taking everyone literally i can understand why you might be a bit frustrated...however, if you don't have a list to take people off of, make a list of people who are requesting not to be contacted by anshechung.com and distribute it to all the employees. It's responsible business practice. If I request a telemarketer take me off their call list and they fail to do so within 6 weeks I can sue that company (a USA law...not sure about other countries). The problem here isn't so much the origional contact, it is that you refuse to take steps that will result in keeping your company in the good graces of potential customers. You don't have to take things too far and say "do not contact people in SL no matter what", just respect their wishes if they ask no to be contacted by you for business purposes. If you have purely social reasons for contacting people and they are ok with that, then go for it. Simple social skills. From: finn Jensen Maybe people who do not like visitors, comments about their sims, questions about their sims or products should simply hide their sims from map, so one do not by mistake enter them, since it seems to offend them so much. Maybe you should look for a "for sale" sign before making offers for people's sims! I don't think these people are against visitors, question, and comments, they were against you offering to buy what was not for sale! |
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Khamon Fate
fategardens.net
Join date: 21 Nov 2003
Posts: 4,177
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12-22-2005 21:24
From: Lewis Nerd If I was Anshe, reading this, I'd have fired him without a second thought after this thread. Agreed without batting an eye. I might, might, have to think about it, keep him on if he posted a simple apology here and agreed to have no direct interaction with my (potential) customers until told otherwise. What surprises me most is that Anshe spent her entire apology defending the notecard distribution which is far far less damaging than Finn's continually damaging posts.
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Visit the Fate Gardens Website @ fategardens.net
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
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12-22-2005 23:28
I can't believe this drama is still going on... geez havent people got anything better to do?
The guy apologised for a one-off action, which wasn't entirely offensive in the first place.
Anyone sends me a notecard, I read it, and either discard it, or act on it. Takes a few seconds and doesn't interrupt whatever I'm doing. Yes, spam can be annoying but honestly, is it really worth all this hassle?
Isn't there something in game more exciting to do right now?
Lewis
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PetGirl Bergman
Fellow Creature:-)
Join date: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,414
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12-23-2005 00:33
From: Lewis Nerd I can't believe this drama is still going on... geez havent people got anything better to do?
The guy apologised for a one-off action, which wasn't entirely offensive in the first place.
Anyone sends me a notecard, I read it, and either discard it, or act on it. Takes a few seconds and doesn't interrupt whatever I'm doing. Yes, spam can be annoying but honestly, is it really worth all this hassle?
Isn't there something in game more exciting to do right now?
Lewis --->>> AGREE!!!! Do something better.. pls.. Good Morning all... The day before Christmas (we celebrate it the 24th).. lots to do.. last cleaning, last gift wrapping.. polishing the silver Christmas china taken out.. take care of the Christmas tree.. (they are not done as in SL) and I have no cute Chip and Dale in my... Lock the tread - and do something creative instead...put some dollars (real ones) to a helping fund as - Red Cross, Amnesty.. or what they are called in your country... and take care of you and your family!!! Tina.. Owner of the brand [EXAKT] in SL... |
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Corwin Weber
Registered User
Join date: 2 Oct 2003
Posts: 390
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12-23-2005 00:36
From: Lewis Nerd
I can't believe this drama is still going on... geez havent people got anything better to do?
You're new here, aren't you? |
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Finn Jensen
Registered User
Join date: 5 Jul 2004
Posts: 140
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12-23-2005 03:25
Well lets look at this thread and what it is about.
A guy who has played 3 years get one notecard, his first notecard in 3 years, so can see how spam is a major problem for him. He even takes it to the forums, but here is the mistake, he do not start a thread about spam in SL, but makes a post that is more or less directed towards me.
The therad has already been found by the flamers, and as we know when they are here NOTHING is going to make a difference. I make a simply post stating what happened, I try sarcasm, I try humour, even try facts. It just goes on and on.
I try to compare different types of unsolicited mail, to prove that some we get are due to a cause some not. But no, some people just keep yelling spam is spam no matter what eg
If a telemarketer calls and offer a magazine or if a hospital calls and tell your aunt is dead; all the same, I did not ask for it , is uncolitated, so SPAM! Kill the spammers.
The therad goes into a more general level of discussing customer service, I made some comments and translations of what was said, what was told to me is the right thing to do; yes I used a vulgar term so maybe people would notice that what they say are just vulgarity discuised in pretty words. But ack, I forgot it is the forums. Here people are so good at quoting text that is totally out of contexts and somehow gluing it in to make the original poster look even worse.
I have admitted not acting professionally when it comes to moopfs, I have apologized for that, and he called me a fucking idiot. Well, lets turn this around a bit.
I AM a customer of Moopf, I contacted him as his customer, with a proposal. He cold handed declined wanting to be my customer, so he is still a potential customer. I called him sensitive ( which I have later apologized).
So, I have aplogized my potential customer for considering him sensitive, he has called his customer fucking idiot. Now the question. How come the flamers have not attacked him for beeing unproffessional or vulgar?
To other people who here in forums have bashed and mocked me. If you run any kind of business in secondlife, remember, when you mock me or someone you mock your customer or potential customer.
I find it highly ironical that some people having taken part in mocking me here, and loudly yelling how unproffessional I have acted. Go look at yourselves, you are insisting on rules that you cannot live up to yourselves.
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
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12-23-2005 03:32
From: Corwin Weber You're new here, aren't you? If 2 1/2 months of paid play and only owning two 1024 sq/m plots makes me "new" then, I guess so. Lewis |
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Frans Charming
You only need one Frans
Join date: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,847
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12-23-2005 03:43
From: Lewis Nerd If 2 1/2 months of paid play and only owning two 1024 sq/m plots makes me "new" then, I guess so.
Lewis I think he ment new to the forums, drama can go on for days and days.  |
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prak Curie
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Join date: 4 Jun 2004
Posts: 346
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12-23-2005 03:45
From: PetGirl Bergman Lock the tread - and do something creative instead...put some dollars (real ones) to a helping fund as - Red Cross, Amnesty.. or what they are called in your country... and take care of you and your family!!! I would like to celebrate the holidays by reading and posting to this thread for the next couple of days. Why is it you feel the need to deny me that?
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-prak
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Finn Jensen
Registered User
Join date: 5 Jul 2004
Posts: 140
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12-23-2005 03:50
Yes Lewis, the trolls live here. Be carefull, one wrong word and the flamers will flame you to death. No matter what you say, it just goes on and on. Its the place where people with low moral, pretending to have a high one, demand other to live up to standards they are way below themselves. Its the home of hipocritics and frustrated people that love to mock others. Just so you know Lewis |
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
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12-23-2005 03:56
From: finn Jensen Yes Lewis, the trolls live here. Be carefull, one wrong word and the flamers will flame you to death. No matter what you say, it just goes on and on. Its the place where people with low moral, pretending to have a high one, demand other to live up to standards they are way below themselves. Its the home of hipocritics and frustrated people that love to mock others. Just so you know Lewis I have been posting on the TSO Stratics forums ever since they were moved there... I am fully aware of how forums work! I'm sure if half the people put half the passion into SL that they do into creating forum drama.... they'd spend half the time here because they'd be enjoying themselves! Wouldn't it be helpful if "free" accounts could read here but could only post in one specific 'leech' forum, which would remove the amount of alts that are here specifically to stir anonymous crap up? Lewis |
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Finn Jensen
Registered User
Join date: 5 Jul 2004
Posts: 140
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12-23-2005 04:05
Khamon I have apologized to the person I own a apologize. His respond was "fucking idiot".
This is a person whose customer I am, so maybe you should also educate him in how one talk to ones customers, eh?
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prak Curie
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Join date: 4 Jun 2004
Posts: 346
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12-23-2005 04:06
From: Lewis Nerd I'm sure if half the people put half the passion into SL that they do into creating forum drama.... they'd spend half the time here because they'd be enjoying themselves! Not really. The editor on the forums is nearly lag free and the API does not seem to be missing important parts. Plus I get lonely there.
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-prak
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Finn Jensen
Registered User
Join date: 5 Jul 2004
Posts: 140
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12-23-2005 04:10
True Lewis, mocking with alts, its just sooo brave....
Maybe people should also be a bit more concerned about their own behaviour than others.
Wonder what actually keeps the flamers going on. Its obvious that FIC has their victims, but people who are not part of them. Maybe they think they will become FIC if they insult and hurt enough people in the forums, especailly individuals that FIC is known to dislike.
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