Openspace Announcement Discussion with Jack Linden

) thank you Katt )

As strange as it sounds, we are reacting exactly how LL wants us to act - believe it or not.

Lets go through the numbers...

Assume for a moment there are 800 Open Sims on 200 servers - and those servers are "bogged down" due to overuse. At $75 per Sim per month, they are making $60,000 a month.

Now - if they raise the price to $125. and lose 33% of their clients, income is now $66,000. and they can redistribute the remaining 528 sims across 176 of the 200 servers at THREE each rather than FOUR sims per server.

10% income increase, 33% better performance, and 24 extra servers ready for 72 new customers.

Like it or not, it's a win-win for the lab. Even if NO ONE quits, they increase income by $40k for new servers. Bottom line is it doesn't matter what we do... so make your choices based on your own situation and needs - not whether it's right or wrong.

I know, it stinks.

BC

A think it is the network bandwidth which is the underlying problem.

An agent on a sim generates the same amount of network traffic between sims (in terms of messages about what you can see in neighbouring sims) and between the sim and the central servers (messaging, asset servers etc.) regardless of the type of sim the agent is on (openspace or full sim).

A server typically hosts two full sims or 8 openspace sims. So a server hosting 8 openspace sims with 1 agent in each sim would generate four times the amount of network traffic compared to a server with 2 full sims each with 1 agent in.

The budgetted network consumption for openspaces is based on the assumption that occupancy of openspaces will be about a quarter of that of full sims, and that most openspace sims will typically be empty most of the time.

The solution (as many have pointed out) would be to either limit the occupancy of openspaces to 1/4 of that of full sims and/or throttle the network bandwidth of openspaces so that they can only use 1/4 of the available network bandwidth allocated per sim.

Matthew

Hello Boaz

next will be, we all need to use megaprims like the creators of nautilus ( to make mainland more laggy) than will follow to reduce draw distance no more than 64 m )

huggs

Thank the person who rented it to you without explaining what it was.

http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2627

WHOA! You spend $70K USD a year here and concierge told you to go post your issue in a forum thread!?!?! What kind of crap customer service is that?

Though I am a mainland resident and have no interest in islands or openspaces, hearing about that kind of treatment really pisses me off. I really feel bad for those of you who have a lot of money invested and are freaking out about this and can't get the time of day from LL.

You seem to be suggesting that they did not notice the (btw the number is more like 20,000) 20,000 or so $250 setup fees rolling in, or that they dont print out reports, or that they weren't anticipating the pent up demand when they decided to re-engineer the product to support twice the prim count, or that they somehow missed the clamoring masses screaming about how they couldnt wait to finally get their very own sim to live on.. Much of which is historically preserved on the blog.

Openlife Grid, sighs not cross platform us Mac Users get left behind again

Thanks.

However, I think the far better solution would be to build into the simulator code (for both openspace and full sims), proper resource management so that a sim can be prevented from exceeding its fair proportion of memory, cpu or network - either co-operatively (e.g. when another sim sharing that resource is not using its full share) or as a fixed throttle.

Is there a jira for that?

Matthew

Since Jack isn't talking here, you might want to see what he said over there.

http://secondthoughts.typepad.com/second_thoughts/2008/10/jack-jacks-the.html

Greetings – I just wanted to tell you that I am very concerned about the recent announcement regarding openspace sims. I have worked on SL for over a year now for two purposes. 1. Education with my college. 2. I personally own Project Hope an openspace sim dedicated to child abuse & domestic violence prevention, awareness and healing resources. I pump a good deal of USD into SL. These changes may halt my work entirely and reduce revenues to LL. Thank you.

It wasn't just the prim count that changed - they also removed the requirement for opensaces to be attached to full sims and allowed them to be created anywhere on the grid.

That was a clear indication that LL no longer expected them to be used as just filler sims between full sims but that they could also exist completely independently (and seperate from) full sims.

There seems very little point to allowing you to create a seperate openspace sim in the middle of nowhere, disconnected from any other sim if it wasn't intended to be occupied!

Matthew

My friend and I personally pump over $260 USD into LL monthly to keep our projects going. This is possible due to openspace sim current pricing. We could not afford the increase and would likely have to cut back projects; thus limiting funds going into LL. Losing nearly 70,00L$ from two people…. Multiple that by others that will be forced to do the same. This is not good business.

Class 5 sim hosts have twice as much memory as a class 4 hosts. The increase in prim count on openspace regions could well have been due to them finally running out of class 4 hardware that they thought could be recycled..

Ok Jack so you claim ppl are abusing them fine here i what is owed to EVERY single person who spends money in SL.I want to know the problems I wanna see the stats on it I want to know your EXACT plan BEFORE the 67% tier increase is put in I want to know how the 67% price increase is going to be used to fix the OS and only the OS as its only the OS getting the tier increase every dime of it needs and deserves to be spent on the OS's not some other project LL needs funding on. Then I want you to offer every single OS owner out there a refund.Pretty simple anyone who has the nerve to jack up tier price 67% owes us ATLEAST a detailed planned not some silly rambling over few things in the blog that certainly did not explain LL game plan.

You sure can bet your A** if I went to one of my RL clients and told them a job I had taken on to do for a set price needed to be upped 67% in cost I would be having to explain every single detail of it and I am sure if your bandwidth providers jacked your costs up 67% you guys would want to know why and where it was going and what the inproved result will be.If not then I hope ppl do file a class action on you and sue you were every dime this game makes.

Ok so everyone knows about the stock exchange crashing, and how many things have come down in price to help everyone to cope but you guys are raising the price of the openspace sims :| have u guys even taken a thought to the currancy of other countrys that play your sl, the aussie dollar for instance is worth $0.61681 to the US Dollar $1 so your increase to $125 will be $202.82 to Australians, how many aussies that own sims will have to give them up due to your price increase, are u guys insane, do you realise how much you will lose by this increase :|

The question is very simple

Did Linden Lab ever outline what could and could not be done on an open space.

The only thing I/we ever saw it was suggested they be water and landscape Sims
There was no list issued upon purchase.

If the OS Sims were supposed to be used this way why were they assigned 3750 prims.
No limit on the number of avatars or scripts.

It seems to me they put little thought into this before jumping into the revenue stream.

So now those who use them to the fullest extent allowed by Linden Lab are abusers.

This seems rather arbitrary.

Linden Lab if you give it to them they will use it.

There is no logic in this decision except to force owners from their Islands to again put the
blame on the customers and not where it belongs but on the short sighted creators.

Dear Mr Linden

I have listened in world to the barrage of complaints and unhappy people and I have watched with interest as the corporations are wholeheartedly supported by Linden while the small projects struggle to make ends meet.

Only three months ago, I bought a 'package' deal of one main sim and two open spaces. I paid $800 out of my own pocket ... not a deep pocket, but I wanted to be part of this community. One of the open sims had sitting tenants and the other was set up for tenants. I questioned the usage and was advised by the outgoing owner and the Linden Labs support teams that low usage renting of these sims was acceptable and on this I based the financial support of the Spacexcape Project. I paid $100 for each open sim and $100 transfer fee. At NO TIME was I informed that there was an abuse of the terms! When did you EVER warn me while I paid you tier that I was in breach of any agreement? NEVER. We have NEVER done anything on those sims but LOW USAGE!!!!! neither of those sims has ever used the prim usage and there is practically NO traffic on either of them! WHY WAS I NOT WARNED????

In view of the drop in the pound against the dollar, my costs are now at much more than they were two months ago. With this increase, my costs will rise even more. I am one of the many who will be abandoning Second Life because they can no longer afford it. I did not budget for this! I will immediately abandon the two Open Space sims and evict the 4 people who have homes there. Then I will search my soul as to whether I can any longer pay into this farce you claim to be a community. How can a community exist if you do not speak to your residents? My investment in Second Life far exists $4,000 in the last year. I deserve better and so do my team of hardworking collaborators.

I hope that the short life of the Spacexcape Project is remembered in the shadow of your despicable behaviour because if you do not reverse your decision then that project will be closed down forever. I am sure that the Linden Nautilus Project, getting all off your advertising attention is a supreme corporate achievement ... but ours has soul.

Spacexape Bridges
http://spacexcape.com

That question needs answering and it would not be difficult for any Linden, even the missing Jack to issue a simple statement confirming or correcting that in here.

As I posted way back, if Jack is unavailable he has a responsibility to his customers (us) to delegate responsibility to another Linden to answer. That's Management 101, he fails.

Snowflake is doing a excellent proxy job by making people think through some things but the fact remains the Lindens (collective guilt) are deliberately ignoring everyone as usual. Jack's talk in SL? Neither he nor any other Linden linked to it in here for forum members.

I'm sure due to the outrage expressed by many, they are probably busy trying to figure out a better way to fix this. I would hold off a few more days to see what compromise they come up with before doing anything rash.

It is therefore important to understand what these regions are; they are provided for light use only, not for building, living in, renting as homes or use for events. As a stretch of open water for boating or a scenic wooded area they are fine, but we do not advise more serious use than this and will not respond to performance issues reported should you not use them in this way.
http://blog.secondlife.com/2006/09/21/information-about-openspaces-void-regions/#more-326


specifically right there. I've seen tons with clubs, alot of scripting and so on.

Thanks for sharing. Isn't it nice to share discussions without attacking people personally?

Do you have a source for 1/2 the logins being campers?

Avatar render cost is client side and has nothing to do with the sim.

if you have leopard you can use Sl through the Windows interface. however, stand by, as they are developing Open Life fast and we (the Mac users) will soon be all inclusive! Second Life's days are numbered!