Openspace Announcement Discussion with Jack Linden

I suggest you do the same.

I keep seeing a lot of swipes against me taken by posters with 10 posts or less. This suggests to me that posters are using alts to hide the fact that they want to drag someone down who has a different opinion than theirs, or they may have been disciplined for making threats.

I am not here to win a popularity contest. I am here to discuss the latest change. I bring to it my own opinions and my own past experiences with LL. I am not here to do anyone's research for them or answer questions about why they are being "punished".

To keep on topic, do you agree with the price increase Valkyrie?

And FYI if people do a little research they will see that the backpedaling HAS already begun, with Jack entertaining a suggestion that people may be able to convert their OS's to full sims for free, from the protest yesterday. I got the info from a chat log of the protest posted on a blog.

Well I will be giving up my open sim and if they increase the full sim prices I will give that up too......Lets get a show of hands now on this blog with who will be dumping their OSS and how many.

URL? I haven't seen that one..

I must admit to getting puzzled by this.

My understanding is that when LL set up OS, they anticipated that a sim that ran on 1/4 CPU would absorb 1/4 of a CPU's resources (25% load). In reality (they say) the load is more like 50%.

What puzzles me is why this costs LL. To me, load is : physics & prim drawing, texture, script and avatar handling. If i'm wrong, others more expert than me will correct me.

So

The prims and textures are based on 1/4 of a full sim .. I don't see how that can end up as '50% not 25%'. That leaves scripts and avatars. I can well believe that once you get 65k sq m to play with you can spread a lot more scripts about (birds, bees, etc etc). On a normal sim excessive scripts results in sim slowdown (the CPU can only handle so much so scripts run more slowly and more importantly, the information on the sim is updated more slowly.. i.e lag). In other words it's the sim (and the 3 others running on the same CPU) that suffers, not LL. A laggy sim doesn't cost them anything .. it just annoys the hell out of the residents of the other 3 sims.

So .. why the 66% price increase? The only thing I can think of is that to get sim lag to more reasonable levels on the the overlagged OS sims they plan to upgrade the sim server, which costs money. But this is only one solution (throw performance at the problem). What's more, it isn't a Linden problem, it's a resident problem. It doesn't affect LL's bottom line. It just affects residents enjoyment of their sim, and believe me, a 50 USD price hike puts a severe dent in this as well

So, IF this is the case (and as has been noted elsewhere, LL's clarity as to the actual cause of the problem is a bit lacking), there are some solutions, in keeping with the spirit of SL.
1) Limit avatars (yes, i know they contribute to lag)
2) Provide a means for establishing who your sibling sims are (the 3 others on the same CPU as you)
3) Provide tools for accurately measuring load on OS sims, and of measuring the source of load on your own sim
4) allow residents to submit tickets if they believe they are being adversely affected by another sim. This means LL doesn't have to spend resources identifying and policing (which costs money)
5) In the long term, introduce true load balancing .. a sim only gets 25% of the CPU processing power. That way lag becomes the sim owner's problem.

Not unless we get estate tools on the mainland it won't. It's like saying a dry baked potato should cost the same as one with the works, because they're both potatoes.

Remember those open space sims that were called out as an example of LL overusing open space sims themselves? Well they are no longer open space sims.

This has gone way way into a very bad territory now.

A sim with 1875 prims, yes. A sim with 3750, that came later, along with a bunch of people going "wait a second, what about the overhead"? Well, surprise surprise, that overhead matters after all.

She hopes it will send people back to her rental business.

Sorry you're wrong,the only ones complaining are not only the ones who abuse OS by opening businesses.
They are probably complaining the least,it is we who do not abuse OS islands that have had this increase shoved down our throat,i think it is us who are complaining the most,besides the estate owners who now have to shove it down their renters throats
The ones operating businesses will just pack up and move on,leaving those of us who love our islands with a choice of whether to pay or give up

OMG!

That is so bad in so many levels for Linden Labs. They really destroy for themself right now

Try Prok's blog, I'm pretty sure there was a copy of that chat posted there.

Thank you Rebecca.

I freely admit that my thoughts that this will help the grid and economy are purely my own speculation. I will believe that people are leaving the grid en masse when I see statistics on it actually happening.

http://secondlife.com/whatis/economy_stats.php

as of October 28: Total Residents 15,657,054

as of now: Residents Online Now 66,426

I remember when the grid used to crash if there were 10,000 people. So far it seems to be up and running.

i have leased two OS sims and i will dump them and i doubt the estate owner will find someone new for them so they will probaly disapear

LL is not a government though, I also pointed out that they are a for-profit business. I think a lot of people will feel better when they start thinking of LL that way instead of a government that provides welfare.

the abuse was all done by "most reputable Real Estate Co" pushing prices so low and not caring what they were used for, just so they could get rid of their useless full sims, well now their chickens have come home to roost. if this hike gets rid of them then great.

At approx. $150 USD for the new OSS monthly tier payment this bill will be more that my:

heating bill (excluding peak season)
water bill
Satillite TV
telephone
electric (non peak cooling season)
Trash bill
Internet bill
(I could go on)

At $300 USD for a Full Sim we are near my car payment

And this is for a virtual experience which means I get nothing tangible and nothing I can resell with any assurity as LL can devalue it at any time.

I think it is time to re-evaluate where my money is going. As I said previously, to many the issue is cost and disposable income vs. the SL experience. Leaving my OSS means a degradation of that experience and, therefore, SL becomes of less value to and interest to me. Increasing the probability that I move on to something me enjoyable and less hassle.

Sorry, Baloo ... and I'll try not to get insulting ... (deleting insulting comments) ..

Lastly, I think most of the people I've read here are using OS sims sparingly, for simple WIDE-OPEN spaces and elbow room away from the masses on the mainland and some other crowded estates.

These are the RESIDENTS (not Mall owners) who are getting burned by this.

But, I do agree with you that it was a bad decission for businesses to use OS sims. So, LL should contact them, explain the situation, and give THEM them choice ... scall down or get out.

Ah OK, so what LL are saying (reverse engineering them a bit) is that the overhead of running 4 sims on one CPU doubles the load.

But my point is still there .. why does this cost LL? It costs the CPU processing power which has the effect of making the sims laggy .. but why should this affect LL's bottom line?

Unless .. people living on a laggy OS sim might give them up which means that LL loses revenue stream so the obvious thing is to up the price and price people off the OS which means LL lose .. er .. hold on a minute, something not quite right here

Ok I have mixed emotions about this. Although I dont think its right that everyone should be "punished" for what a few (or maybe its many I dont know) have done I do think that there needs to be tighter restrictions on these openspace sims.

My husband and I pay over 300 US dollars per month to rent what was supposed to be a private class 5 sim. An island. No neighboring sims, just ocean view as far as the eye could see. When these open airs became readily available recently our sim owner added a bunch of them to her land holdings and now we are no longer an island but connected to another 30+ sims all of which are being rented out! Now we deal with constant trespassers and have no privacy. Now I love our sim owner dearly but I have no problem saying I felt doing that was completely unfair. We've considered moving but at this point whats to keep it from happening again and like I said, I really like the sim owner and aside from this issue she has been very good to us. So now, we just moved our nightclub and shopping mall to the island where our home is and had some of our friends move on to the island with us. Might as well make the best out of an iffy situation.

Do I support the Lindens cracking down on openair abuse? Absolutely. Do I support them punishing everyone? No. But how many people would they have to hire to monitor this situation? Whats next? The SL police? If people could act like grownups and play by the rules there wouldn't be a problem.

lol, nice one Viktoria, someone asks for a url to a post and you suggest they get that url from another post - without a url, too funny

url to proks blog?

I can honestly say...I'm shocked and disappointed! This..with no warning.. I saw your 'tester' enter my open space sim and they said absolutely NOTHING to me! A kind word saying...hey, you need to cut down on this or that...would have been fair. Price gouging, on the other hand, is not! My open space sims are not for rent, just for people to explore and play (usually small numbers of avatars at a time ex.. 5) My full sims are for renting and business, so essentially my open space sims are for personal use... I have not used up all my prim and I don't have any scripts that are extremely high (like to keep them below 0.100 each) and even on my full sim rentals my renters are told to keep theirs below 0.100 also. So, why the big increase? Why the 'punishment' of everyone instead of just those responsible. Plain and simple.... GREED!

Linden Labs should be ashamed...trying to blame us for their own greed, shame!...just be honest and say it! You just want to charge us more money for......what?....pixels! thanks!
As simple as that, for if it were because we were abusing limits then we ought to have been told individually and given the opportunity to correct things. Many people may not realize the script count or the number of avatars on a sim causes the problems the lindens are having.. So, instead of just giving us the chance to fix things correctly...they charge more! right!

It's just greed folks! Don't let their excuse for raising the rates make you think it's nothing more than than their own greed for money... and I wouldn't even have known about this at all if it wasn't for my wonderful friend..... BANANA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wOOT!

Will this offer to convert OS to full sims only apply to those with 4 OSS?

If not what about those of us that dont have but one....are we stuck?

For those with less than 4 sims, they should offer to at least give us back our purchase price....heck I would take a refund of half my purchase price to get out of my OSS

Yes it is a personal issue .. one that affects many people on many different levels. One must ask the question as to why you continue to post here and make matters worse. Is taking the attention from the issues and hijacking the thread your purpose or is this exchange entertaining you? You obviously aren't affected by this situation, so why are you posting here at all making comments about emotions and outrage felt by many subscribers. Perhaps you should walk a mile in the shoes of all concerned and remove yourself from the shooting range, unless of course you are enjoying all of this. I sincerely hope thats not the case because that would indicate that you are only an instigator and enjoying the chaos being created by these unfortunate circumstances and you are stirring the proverbial pot. I would hope that you have more compassion and sympathy for your fellow subscribers that are being affected by this to do something like that.

To everyone that's been taking this bait, please stop the flame war and focus on the OS price/limitation issues and the impact that these changes will have on so many. As another poster stated earlier, allowing this thread to become a flame war is only counter productive.