Openspace Announcement Discussion with Jack Linden

hehe the thieves start to run..... lol

Interesting.....I entered a post this morning with a link to a very interesting picture showing our governing Lindens as being a major culprit in the overloading of sims that they're claiming as being the reason for this price increase. The pic showed a certain sim owned by Governor Linden with a parcel prim usage of about 100 prims over the parcel allowance. I find it interesting that that post is mysteriously not here...... I also find it interesting that they're blaming and punishing us for their own indiscretions. As I said in that previous post....it's all about greed, nothing more. LL could use a lesson in ethics, I believe.

If that is the case this really get's more pathetic every second. Does anyone else feel we are watching a prim train wreck here? Wow is all I can say.

OK, maybe it's me but just wondering...

If OS was never meant for much more than a twig and a leaf, why did LL decide to include 3750 prims to do 'nothing' with?

Jack ...

This is not good. Either someone has made a serious business blunder or Linden Labs really doesn't care. Neither of these is good for the future outlook of SL.

Sorry if this has been said before ...

You alluded to having to add infrastructure to support the abusers. And, of course, that will take money. But, there is another solution. DON"T SUPPORT THE ABUSERS.

The general concepts that OpenSpace sims seemed to be designed for is sound for the enjoyment of the vast majority of residents. From a business standpoint, you could affort to loose the abusers (and the required upgrades) rather than loose the majority of happy people (who aren't very happy at the moment, I might add).

Or, is there another agenda here?

Great - now we will all end up paying the $100 conversion cost for them to switch from the OS to the Full Sim!!!! Just so they can stay within their acceptable use levels!!!

I've just been to both Mos Ainsley and Castle Valeria, both now support 15,000 prims. I don't know if they were previously Openspaces but if they were and they've now done this it really does take the biscuit.

What LL is proposing here is in direct violation of Danish law (I'm a Danish citizen), even if the TOS allows for it - I don't know if it has merit though.
I am invoiced in Euros by LL and LL charges me extra 25% VAT on top of all purchases and fees, which I assume they forward to the Danish purse. (Yes, it's not a joke - we actually pay 25% VAT on everything in Denmark…)
To my knowledge EU directives are not above Danish law in consumer protection issues, although I think EU practices and precedents covers the LL proposal too.

I don't know what the legal consequences for a US based company is - there might be none - but does LL want to knowingly be in violation of EU and/or national law, which covers a considerable number of their customers?

If LL really carries this through, the existing open-spaces must be grandfathered. They may be somewhat regulated in usage, but they must be grandfathered - or our investment of US$ 250 per open-space must be returned to us!
Either of the two will have LL as a law abiding entity.

The 50$ raise means that I would have to raise the weekly tier from 1995 L$ for 937 prims to 3045 L$ for 937 prims, for the 4-5 inhabitants of each of my 2 open-space!
I only have respectively 4 and 5 residents on the 2 open-spaces and I have never seen more than 6 online at the same time on any of them.

I'm a Danish citizen and am 'blessed' with the highest VAT in the world - 25% - which Linden Lab dutifully invoice on top of all purchases and maintenance fees… That is why my weekly tiers have to be of that order, if the sims have to barely pay for themselves.
That is of course ridiculous and impossible, so I too shall have no choice but to abandon the sims - I doubt anybody will buy them, as there will be an absolute glut of open-spaces on the market when we reach 2009.

As it has been a labour of love, not primarily a business project, it is a dream that is shattered too.
I have dreamt of surrounding my full sim with 8 open-spaces after the same concept of the two I already have - now that is of course out of the question.

At the moment I'm mostly inclined to bid SL goodbye and abandon my primary sim too, if the proposal carries through in its present form.
I may seriously consider joining a Danish/European group for legal action against LL, if it proves necessary and viable.

You pretty obviously don't ride with the boat owners I know.. Thier rule seems to be that getting 10% of the interest list = back to full throttle!

If LL filled the ocean between the old N & S continents, it would be with protected openspace sims. Maybe some rocks and scenery and stuff but nobody would call it their home. It's for moving thru, even if you stop for a few to top off your drink and sit and chat, not staying in.

now they delete posts faster one can read them

oKAY; I GO BACK SHOPPING FOR MY MONEY ; WILL NOT GET BANNED

That scares me. It really, really does.

No word from the Lindens whatsoever, but they quietly erase any evidence that shows that OS sims could be and were being used for more, even by the Lindens.

That's damn scary.

All no doubt has been said above here, just wanted to add my protest

Then they need to either get a firm grip on reality and unplug for a while, or seriously re-evaluate their business model and diversify.

by law its 30days baloo. by law. otherwise that landlord can go to jail for 60 days to 3 years depending on the state.

Really get your facts right.

What disturbs me about this is not that they set a bad example - Im used to that. I could care less what they do with their own resources. They own the server it runs on, none of my business.

What disturbs me is that they are sitting there behind the scenes, right now, watching this debauchle unfold, without comment. Quietly sweeping their little messes under the rug and pretending there's nobody home.

Quit peeking out from behind the curtains jack.

Peek-A-Boo... we see you.

Whatever LL says: 66% is insane!

The Fantasy Continent for example will completely disintegrate into 5 seperate sections. People have paid with bloodm, sweat and tears to build their sims and now the arrogant Linden toerags wish to monopolize SL again?

I think all the sims lost will cost LL a fortune, not to mention all the RL lawsuits for money and effort put into these sims (hint hint).

We might well see the end of LL (duh duh DUH...)

Do you know how long those sims were openspaces?

See @#1780 (or before, if anyone deletes a preceding post):

I might have miss a post some where but as of post 2180 I have yet to see a response from Jack.

Are we ever going to get answers Jack?

Jack are you here?

Hello?

Bueller?
Bueller?
Anyone?

Throttle? I'm talking about messing about in boats, not driving gas-guzzling shoreline-trashing stinkpots. That's why I asked you if you'd ever gone boating in RL. Very little of it involves concerning yourself with the throttle, whether it's a sailboat or a powerboat. The whole point to boating is being there, in the boat, on the water, in the place... not getting from point A to point B.
Which brings me back to my original question, what does it mean to call something your home, in Second Life? My "home in second life" has "some rocks and scenery and stuff" and rarely more than that.
Why not? You never *have* to "move through" anywhere in SL: anywhere you are in SL, you're there to *be there*. You teleport in, spend a while, teleport out. Even if you're going down a road or a river, you're doing it because you're being there on the road, or in the river. All the corridors are destinations, too.

This is really upsetting. My partner and I "own" an OS through an estate and have for a very long time (not a product of the recent push). We are rarely in SL now but have maintained the sim and continued to pay tier in part because we love it, but also because we know many other people enjoy using the sim. In particular, our sim is the one linkage point joining two large and otherwise separate groups of water-based, sailing-oriented sims. (Incidentally, we are only using around 1,500 prims and that almost entirely for landscaping).

So what happens now? If we push the abandon button, who gets the OS? Does the sim, and therefore the link between the two sailing estates, suddenly disappear? Would the estate owner have to pay again to create that sim if she wanted to relink the two estates? (Obviously I would talk to the estate owner first, but given how many open sims there are in her estate and how many may get abandoned, I imagine she is going to have enough worries about keeping things going).

Moreover, how is the relationship between the estate owner and an OS "owner" affected by the end of OS transactions? We currently have the right to sell the land to anyone, although they must obey the covenant (not that anyone would buy it at the moment, let alone for what we paid). If I am reading the blog correctly, as of January 1 we will ONLY be able to transfer the sim back to the estate owner and not be able to sell it to anyone else. Am I understanding this correctly? If so, this is going to drive the value and usefulness of OSs in estates down even further. I am really afraid the whole SL sailing system will go down since there won't be enough OS left extant to support it.

How sad this all is, and what a stupid decision. This probably will be it for us and SL (and this is not something I have ever even thought before).

I appreciate that there are changes that need to be made, and I think working out a throttling program in the meanwhile would be best suited. Control each OS to take up exactly 1/4 of a sims allowances.
I'm not a tecchie person, and I'm sorry if I can't provide more, but this upsets me as I would be paying more and yet recieving no given bonus to my money each month.
As I said in another thread on this topic, as to how and if it affects me, here you go:

This does affect me.
Although I do not currently own one, shortly after Christmas I had plans to purchase two open sims to add on to the ambiance of my main one, places for people to leisurely walk around, and for a little more privacy then I currently have.
However, I will not be making this upgrade now, nor do I plan on it if LL continues to raise their prices.
My budget barely accomodated for the two that I want before the price hike, and will not accomodate it now.
There is 500$ lost right away, and the 150$ each month in tiers for them both.
At 125$ each month in theirs it no longer becomes worth it to me for one open sim.

Furthermore, this will affect my business. As someone who has been trying very hard to make a presence via medieval and rustic furnitures - hearing the constant protests of not buying L$, not logging in, not spending L$ horrifies me, I truely wonder if I will be able to afford the full sim I have now after all of this.
LL is destroying the economy for me in more then just one way.
I understand frustrations, I understand why people want to do it, but boycotting one thing doesn't mean boycotting everything. This may just well mean death for smaller business owners, especially those not in the fashion industry as I am.

I fear that the L$ will drop, making the already dwindling amount I make be pennies on the dollar to what I was making months ago.
I was just anticipating coming out of the summer slum of SL to a great and flourishing fall. Ah, well. I don't see that anymore.

If things continue as they are, LL will see that my main full prim sim will also not be feeding into their greedy hands during this time of economic crisis.

So you state that it is great for business/education but yet you are upset about the terrible customer service you receive along with a 148% price hike?

Where I come from a 148% price hike with terrible customer service from a provider would probably make the service NOT a viable business/education option.

Isn't that what you are saying? You want the service but don't want to pay the extra price?

Triz ... When you press the abandon button, the land goes back to the Estate owner. It would then be up to her/him as to what to do with it.

I'm faced with the same thing ... And I love my build and neighbors and Estate owners.

This would be a sad day for SL .

This whole situation kills me!

I am out of the market as a land-borrower/leaser/renter, but I have had an OS, up until I couldn't any longer justify my personal cost-for-entertainment ratio anymore.

I know how much love I put into that first good terraform and full-sim build, and don't doubt that each and every one of you feels the same...and in that spirit, I'd only say this to those of you planning to sell/abandon/downsize:

Get lots of pictures, then trash it to HELL before you go! Don't leave them (Linden Crystal-Meth Lab) ANYTHING of your creativity, vision, artistry, or heart that they can use/market/resell unless they are willing to spend all of their spare tech-time rolling back sims.