RC Questions

Yes. Which proves that the Jira system is flawed.

I have held a full UK driving license since the age of 17 and 1 month for the record



But if the passport information is not freely available then I cannot see how Aristotle can claim to use it to verify it in less than 5 seconds, I will ask my Bank here in Holland how they confirm my passport, as the UK passport office only says its valid or not, not to who it is issued, I will let you know what they say. Anyone from the EU using their true information with a company such as Aristotle that does not conform to EU data protection standards would be better placed not to use it imho If an EU citizen uses Aristotle and their data is compromised then we have no recourse in law against them. That is why the EU recommends that no one should give personal data to these companies, but people can if they want to its their choice.

But why risk your own information while the Aristotle system is so flawed any dead person will do

As far as UK driving licenses are concerned well 17 is the legal age you can hold a full car license so Aristotle will verify you at that age.

I will do some more digging and see what else I can come up with regarding where Aristotle gets it information from, however I am sure Aristotle is not a trusted service and certainly for us in the EU

As I said in my post there, only the issue creator should be allowed to change those two fields (if anyone, really). People that voted for it voted for one thing, and to change it means it no longer says what they felt about the issue.

What information? My point was that any method of age or identity verification that doesn't involve my nominating some third party, whom you trust, to vouch for me, and that third party then checking with me that your inquiry is a result of a process I've initiated, is inherently unreliable.

As things stand, even being charitable and assuming they're bothering to check anything at all, the only thing Aristotle can verify -- whether by legal means or otherwise -- is that someone claiming to be me appears to know something about me or have access to some of my documents.

That is clearly not the same thing at all, since any determined twelve-year-old should easily be able to rise to the challenge of finding out her mother's driving licence number, do you not think?

My question remains; since Aristotle's method of verification is, even if they actually perform the checks they purport to conduct, completely reliant on people's honesty and, in effect, no more reliable or difficult to circumvent than just asking someone to click a box to confirm they're over 18, why, if you do not advocate their doing a robust check involving a trusted third party, do you say Linden Labs should do any more than ask people to click the box?

Please don't reply, "ideally, Linden Labs should be doing such and such." The point is, they're not. They're using a method of "verification" that verifies very little, and I want to know why -- if you consider age verification at all important -- you do not think they should just ask people to confirm they're over 18 and hope they're telling the truth, or, if you don't like that, you do not suggest they should put their plans on hold until they have a proper solution in place, since their plans rely on a system of "verification" that doesn't verify much that clicking a box wouldn't do.

And isn't that Maxy a kid avatar as well? Maybe they will be complaining when LL stops child avatars, I know not probable but always possible. If they can do this to big section of the customers it makes me wonder what they will do next.

Why do you think I am so involved in this battle when I am a kid AV a lot of the time? I see what sort of precedent this sets, plus child avatars have often been seen as something to be shunned. I know other child avatars that have realized the same thing too.

Does anyone really think Kirk will make the distinction between kids and kid avatars? If there were no RL kids (for some reason) on the main grid he would just point to us instead and figure people will put on blinders when he says 'look! kids!'.

Goddammit.

According to Agent Tairov over at Xstreet, we've got new worries.

Linden Labs has limited the number of prims you can take into your inventory at one time to 1000 prims even for coalesced objects. Moving to the new hellhole just got harder.

There's a jira in the OP on this thread about this issue.

https://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=526559&master=1#526559

I am keeping a regular back up of it and if LL pull it I will make it available on the SLapt.me site as a historical document, I cannot see any problems with this as the search engines can reference and save it and google has a copy cached

There is some debate raging about this but Linden Lab claim it's a technical issue and that rezzing over 1000 prims at a time simply isn't reliable.

Rezzing, I can see I guess. But what about if you get all your stuff returned?

it's already happening on the grid so it will most likely happen. To labour my example, the discovery hunt knocked back anyone who applied if they shared a sim with, or if they were, 'pornographers' as they wanted to keep it 'kid safe'.

It's coming.. there's enough stupid, intolerant people inworld already. Add the new wave of unsophisticates that we'll get and it's guaranteed.




yes Thorn, we've known about this for a month or more.

when you rez it you may find that some of your transfer items go poof..

This is truly what concerns me because so many are not seeing the whole picture and maybe 12/18 months down the line more cleansing will take place as they, LL, got away with this one and as you say kirk will not differentiate when he sends his staff on a find the dirt mission into SL next.

WE didn't. You might have. :-/ I just found out today.

The thousand-prim limit on Take, Take Copy and Delete was forced on us with server release 1.26.3. I opened a JIRA on the issue, which they are largely blowing off.

http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4207

As a large-scale builder, I can tell you that taking and re-rezzing as many as 5000 prims works fine, ***IF*** you are patient and let the perms settle out properly prior to taking it.

Right, all of the negatives associated with this policy change are bad enough just in themselves (both for people directly affected and that it will indirectly affect everyone). The hidden danger is that this tactic can be used in the future by LL and/or Kirk. Even if we can not change things, protesting is important because it gets the policy change noticed (and LL will realize it is unpopular).

People may refuse to see the fundamental unfairness of this move to other people as long as they do not think it affects them. Sad but unfortunately true. Which is why opening up a precedent like this is really dangerous! Everyone will blissfully be unaware, despite the obvious warnings now, when the next Great Purge comes along (/me resists using the Niemöller quote).

This thread reminds me of a movie I saw as a child. Bulldozers hollowed out a huge pit in the earth. A Rancher then drove his entire heard of 100's of Diseased Cattle into the pit. The ranch hands shot them all down with rifles and then the dozers came back and covered them up.

Seems that is happening here. Kirk and LL have identified us as the diseased cattle. The pit has been dug and we are moving closer and closer to it. Soon Congress & LL will shoot us all down and LL will send he dozers back to ursula. AO content in SL wil then be dead and gone forever.



Gosh, I was so young when I saw that movie. But yes,... I do remember hearing a lot of moo'ing

Voted.

Of course, why am I suprised they would do something like that? They have and some people think it is a feature.

I stand corrected on age for drivers licenses... the majority seem to be 18+, but there are some at 17 and a few at 16.

I suppose that would be useful for some things (and that even a 16 year old limit is better than none at all), but unless they can confirm more than just the existance of the card (such as birthday, which seems unlikely that they could do legally), it does seem limited use.

Passports are not age restricted.. for them, they would need to be able to get details for the verification to be useful.

Both of those is a little academic though, since credit cards and payments are not age restricted either, and I know for a fact that minors do get issued credit cards.

My teen daughter and her friends want to join SL teen grid. I had to explain to them that a) the teen grid was merging with regular grid, and b) nothing could ever make the unified grid safe for teen girls to play in. I even got a call from one father asking what was really going on. Once he understood that the main grid was for adults and what could happen there, clean up or no clean up, he wholeheartedly agrees that SL is not the place for his children either.

Yeah, great job you guys are doing on improving your image...

Wow! Just been to the new LL adult hub (yes it's deserted) Arapamia, a single island off the coast of Ursula.

It's rated (adult) and i'm verified to arrived there without a problem.

I walked up the steps into a large building and on the wall, is a set of rules....

No shooting
No blood
No violence
No buying
No selling
No recruiting
No annoying sounds
No repetiive sounds
NO ADULT SOUNDS
NO SEX
NO NUDITY
NO OFFENSIVE LANGUAGE

Yes, this is the gateway to LL's new "adults only" kingdom

Gomez

Listen LL, the entire verification bit you've put together is a gross clusterfuck of epic proportions. You've not thought it through, you've gone so far as to ban pictures of beer, and every step you've made the past year has been at our expense and to our detriment.

And it doesn't have to be this way.

You want a place where teens can be safe? You have it now - it's called the Teen Grid. You are not going to convince me that the single additional asset server necessary is a tremendous cost to your company - the servers are the same and they are sitting in the same racks. You can have a shared area for adults and educators by creating a Crossroads continent on teen grid where adults are permitted (minus their inventory). And you can make the teen grid more attractive by allowing builders who ask to have copies of their stores and stuff for sale (after being checked and cleared) available on the teen grid.

You want a place where businesses want to come and work? What business will want to hold meetings in the mainland where their people could be out playing? You need a Business Grid too where companies have islands all to themselves for corporate work. You will have to have some sort of secure communications first - no company of mine will hold a netmeeting where anyone at the provider can listen in.

Your sin is that of thinking too narrowly. You want to combine all of LL's assets under one grid. That's rather silly, since kids, adults, businesses and educators all have very different needs and objectives. Your current clientele want to be left alone to play in their fantasy worlds. A businessman couldn't care less about fractal trees, but wants encryption on all his corporate discussions inworld. An educator doesn't need encryption at all, but does need an easy way to interact with students and build immersive education builds.

You need 3 grids, not just 1. Just like trains, cars and aircraft have different requirements, so too do your clients. And trying to force all three to use one single grid will only make SL less useful to all and not more useful to anyone.

Ok I have another question now, this is more for private estates.....(Well, partially)

If you have say 50 estates all linked side by side, won't all have to be made either Adult or PG? If not, then whats to keep PG people from camming across and running into the same problem we have with mature next to pg now? Will people have to break up their land masses and move them all over just to avoid "Accidental contact"?

I don't currently own any private estates, but have considered it for quite awhile, (I have something like 25 spaces tied up with reservations from back when you could just buy reservations) but with these new hoops and hurdles, I can't see it being worth while if I wanted to provide things here and there for everyone.

Additionally:
I went through and counted the verified customers I have, and then the unverified, if I decide to move my business to "Adult land" I will loose more then half my customers. It could vary depending on who is actually renting, and who is their guest, could be more then half, could be less, but still a significant number. It could aslo equate to more if people decide to rent in PG land so their unverified friends can visit.
I'm not sure if I will need to make a move to "Adult land" or not since the way things are worded about privacy of what you do in your own home. I learned a long time ago, nothing in SL is private. I'll let it slide that anything inside of my home is safe, For now, until some twit accidently cams into my home and is offended by something I may, or may not be doing, but what about my vamp renter who has a graveyard with her tombs and crypts that are made for sex? Does she now need to have an indoor graveyard? Will people now have to construct entire buildings over their sim or small plots, so it's in the "Privacy" of their home?

Then you get to meet Mr. Ben Dover with his HICA pole.

It's actually worse than I thought. I read all the comments on Ceera's JIRA. I had no idea it was that big of a problem. *facepalm*