RC Questions

Just do what the rest of us do: sigh and scroll past the post. Alexander is clearly putting more time into writing them than the combined amount of effort of people reading them.

I would argue that the disaster is ALREADY happening. People ARE closing up shop. Land is being sold off dirt cheap. Many are going basic from premium. Estate owners are circling the wagons and trying to figure out how to survive. Some by unloading regions. But the absolute WORST disaster is that with this coming so fast on the heels of the OS debacle (and with the second price hike now bearing down on the grid fast) residents have lost ALL trust in LL. People are thinking 4 times before the deposit any cash, buy any land, make any purchase. Why? because they don't trust LL. They wonder when LL will screw them personally over and make their investment worthless.

I am in this for the long haul. I won't quit till LL pulls the last plug on the last server. But then again I wrote off my investment years ago. I don't care if I get a cent back. I just love building stuff. But many many people cannot see SL that way and right now they are feeling harried and threatened with no recourse at all.

Linden Labs throughout it's website refers to "buying land". When you buy something, you get a fixed set of rights. In the case of a physical object like a banana, the object itself, but in the case of all sales, including intangible intellectual property, you get a set of rights. The seller cannot afterward come back and take those rights away, that's the basics of owning something, they give up the right to do some things in return for money.

With real life land, they give up possession, the fruits of the land (timber, mineral rights), air rights in some cases. With a book, you can have first publication rights, translation rights, royalties. The exact bundle of rights in a sale depends on the sales contract, but you cannot have a sale without *some* transfer of rights.

So, by virtue of advertising to "sell land" to us, Linden Labs is on the hook for *something*, the exact something will likely require a court case to decide. If they had done business by advertising "rent virtual land", with a lease agreement, that would be different.

Trying to claim afterwards that they didn't sell us anything, cause the fine print of the TOS says so, is simple consumer fraud. The big obvious sign on the front of the website says "Interested in owning your own piece of virtual real estate?". The parcel info says "For Sale" and "Purchase", pretty clearly not "For rent", even though there are maintenance costs after. An equivalent is a condo in real life, you own the actual unit, but you have to pay maintenance costs afterwards. That is the impression Linden Labs gives the average buyer.

What about those of us who have items that straddle all three areas? I'm on mature land and sell erotic art, items that have sex and cuddles and pure pg stuff.

I'm resigned to losing the erotic art and having others display it on comission, possibly having to remove the sex animations to keep the shop on mature but losing the pg search market on top of this is just not acceptable.

Therefore I need land in all three area just to be able to advertise effectively but will survive on mature and pg. My land allowance is full and I'm not going to sell some of my mature land to buy some pg when I would expect is a swap akin to what is happening for ursula so I can contine to reach all markets.

Separating content is one thing but hanging content creators out to dry is something else.

Agreed.

This is why I totally revamped my business plans and am going totally PG. No straddling the fence. Is it going to be a pain in the butt to do? You bettcha but I am done reinventing myself and my business every 6 months for the next brilliant LL idea.

Here is the current distribution:

* Estate - Adult: 9
* Estate - Mature: 17883
* Estate - Offline: 2
* Estate - PG: 3417
* Linden - Adult: 7
* Linden - Mature: 3988
* Linden - PG: 1422

Tyche Sheperd keeps track with a survey every week at this site:

http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/business-land-economy/8523-new-second-life-sims-past-15.html

I am sure I have seen this word - owner - thousand times and more - but just to assure myself again, I jumped short in and opened my about land window. If my english-german translation program is correct, the viewer is telling me that I am the owner of *my* land...

If owner means the same what it means in german language, then it will be maybe better if I take a screenshot, in case LL would come to the idea to change owner into "renter" over night (we never know).

I tend to take *owner* literally. As owner I pay some clerk folks (LL) for tech. maintenance and bureaucracy fees, but as owner I have no contract with them which would allow them to make culture - or apartheid-politics on my land, with my land, or against my property and its content which I *own* additional.

The keywords are indeed *buy*, *sell* and *owner*.

This alone is a stable enough reason for showing a relative robust resistance against the actual impertinence of LL since the company tries to undermine my/our ownership.

If I own a bicycle I would not allow the former dealer which is often also the later authorized repair shop, to steal my pedals or my handlebar or to make my property useless.

Are you going to comply with the current 6010? I'm betting that this will be in force within the next 12 months - no matter how much they change it to get us to go along quietly this time.

I've made the decision that I'll play nice and do what they want but I'm no longer going to subsidise LL. The moment I have to start putting my hand in my pocket for tier then I'm out of here.

LL's push with xsl and in general seems to be to get us to provide cheap products to newbs to make SL more attractive. LL is only profitable because it's skimped on things like having a customer information and billing system and most of the work it should be doing it suckers the residents into doing - from organising its birthday party to testing its viewer (RC my arse - that first release was not even alpha) to localising its content both the xsl website and the viewer.

If they can't even acknowledge their parasitical relationship with their content creators and treat them with a bit of respect and goodwill then I'm done with being used by these guys. They can't really expect to have business ideas that adversely impact their customers and expect their customers to do the majority of the work to implement it.

but then, who's the bigger fool - them for using this business model or us for allowing them to get away with it?

I am with you on both counts but the last paragraph is the only way to treat SL any money I put into SL (and over the years like you it has been considerable) I write off the minute I convert into L$'s lol

And, in the latest blog entry, I read that Well, at least that gives the lie to people who say Americans don't do irony.

has anyone with piof that hasn't shown up in their profile yet tried to test the verification by going to the hub or to the testing station?

we know that xsl verification isn't working atm, but I'm wondering if non profile piof is.

Same issues here.

This answer by Blondin Linden knocked me out.



I mean what does LL try to tell me here?

I studied art at one of the most renowned academy for arts in Germany. I think I have a clue about art... Blondins "answer"..., seems to me that they expect that an artist has to work in future with a cutter in his head and in self-censorship mode and additional with a constant floating AR-hammer over his head plus unexpected G-team visits with unexcpected consequences...

This is inacceptable for artists and for gallery owners.

Additional I create from time to time some quality architecture plus interior. Since the market asks for multi-functional furniture for example, it is logical that I would shoot myself into the feets if I deliver crippled products. Some of my furniture developments are: PG, Mature and if LL likes the word, also Adult *in one*.

A typical *all in one* concept like so much others in SL. The customer can chose how he/she likes to use the item or not.

However. LL is killing the freedom of art, for example, and any comfy service a residents business could deliver to its customers.

I'm quite prepared to believe Aristotle are, in fact, just checking postcodes against addresses; I was not so long ago involved in prosecuting a scam that depended on one particular financial institution's doing no more than that at a crucial stage (to be fair, it depended on a lot of other things as well, but it certainly depended on the institution's false assumption that several other things had already been reliably verified, and, therefore, didn't merit further investigation, by the time they got to that part of the process).

However, did you have a bank account at your old address? I'm not sure how long credit reference agencies' records go back for, but if, for example, you at the time had an account with an overdraft facility -- even one you didn't use -- it could reasonably be inferred you must have convinced whoever you then banked with you were at least 18.

Just for the record: The address I used with Aristotle had no bank account or credit history about me at that address as it was a short term lodging during a few months while I was with the Military and moving around, so I did not change any bank records or do a change of address to that address, I wasn't even on the electoral roll at the address and had no utility bills in my name either, basically I lived there but had no mail sent there because it was so short term. IIRC credit histories in the UK go back 6 years.

The problem with that method is that it would be very inefficient, especially for the bank.

How does the credit agency have legal access to date though? If they can, why can't Aristotle directly? Or is there specific legislation for credit agencies?

In the UK, the department of transport offers these guidelines http://www.dft.gov.uk/drivingforwork/content/main.asp?pid=40 :



There is also a road transport act that can hold employers liable if their drivers are not properly registered. That is problematic unless there is some way to check.

Presumably there is some legal way to check this? Note that with drivers licences they would not even neccessarily need to know the birthday on the card, since there is a minimum age just to have the licence.

Not sure about passports, unless there is some sort of similar confirmation service for businesses who require their employees to be able to cross borders?

I do agree that they are on thin ice... again that is part of why I feel they should be providing a lot more support (since mitigating the costs is both a good faith measure and reduces any damages those affected might incur, thus reducing LL's potential liability).

The other part of why I feel they should provide more support for those moving and for the businesses affected is, of course, simple moral obligation, but potential liability is a greater issue to most corporations...

I agree that Blondin just does not understand. The other Lindens do not either. Just because someone is not exercising a right this very instant does not mean they do not have that right, or that removing that right is in any way justified simply because they are not exercising it immediately.

All land owners should be given the option to move, albiet perhaps in a second wave a couple months down the line when everything has had a chance to calm down a bit and people are making informed decisions instead of panicing.

Aristotle cannot even conform to the SAFE Harbour rules we have in the EU so I am sure no credible agency in the UK would allow Aristotle access to this data as the company that did would break EU rules regarding data protection and be liable for prosecution.



Companies require you to present your license or License number for them to see it when you drive a company vehicle. The driving license number which also includes your DOB is then registered with the insurance company that can then check to see if your license is a valid one.



16 in the UK IIRC for a moped under 50cc and 17 for a car



There is a passport checking service but again I doubt Aristotle has access to this as they do not conform to the basic EU requirements regarding Safe Harbour rules

http://www.ips.gov.uk/identity/working-pvs.asp



This is more for banks and the financial sector than this type of verification service and as it is done via the telephone Aristotle doesn't use it. I hold that all Aristotle check is that the UK address is valid against the public postal records for address and nothing more.

http://postcode.royalmail.com/portal/rm/postcodefinder

Banks and other financial institutions, when you open an account, insist, as part of their terms and conditions, that you let them share certain data with other banks and with credit reference agencies, under certain conditions, but the information can't be passed around willy-nilly.

These credit reference agencies certainly include Experian and Capital One, who would know from the bare fact I have a credit history that I must have convinced my bank I'm over 18 or they couldn't legally have signed a credit agreement with me. I could well be wrong, but Aristotle don't have a UK presence as far as I know; the two companies I named are the major players here, and Experian certainly offer an age validation service to third parties.Yeah, if you're employing someone it's really easy to check his passport and driving licence details.. you just ask him to show you the documents and you look for yourself.

Possibly so, but using a trusted third party who not only knows me but can also confirm with me that I -- rather than an imposter using my details -- initiated the request for confirmation is the only really reliable way I know of to confirm someone's identity in this sort of situation. Anything else relies on the dangerous assumption that, since I'm the only person who should have access to certain information, it follows that, in fact, I am the only person who has access to it.

What do you consider the better course of action? Actually checking people's ages reliably or going through the motions of so doing while actually doing nothing of the sort, because that's less bother?

You might even, after some thought, conclude -- as have I -- that any reliable method would, indeed, be too expensive and inconvenient for Linden Labs to implement so all they can do is rely on people's honesty.

In which case, why not rely on their honesty in answering the question "Are you 18 or over?" rather than wasting time on a non-solution? What's to be gained by this charade of "verifying" people's ages in a way that wouldn't tax the ingenuity of a twelve-year-old to to circumvent?

This is a summation from a thread of mine over at Xstreet. (yeah yeah, I know. After my last emotional crash and burn, I gave myself some space, calmed down, and now I'm back helping to spread the word. Can't leave you lot to it all on your own. It wouldn't be fair. )

ANYway -

Deckherd Cleanslate says:

Now they are getting ready to tell the entire population of SL that:

A- Mature land isn't "mature" anymore
B- the Vast majority of residents will not be able to access anything deemed "adult content" unless they give up their anonymity and verify.
C- the definitions of what "adult" means will not be stable or made available to the population.
D-Only those who pass some mystical "test" after submitting their support ticket will get to trade their current land for adult land, and the rest are simply hosed.
E- later, Adult businesses will be forced to locate themselves on Ursula regardless of how high the land prices are.
F- No two lindens have the same answer to any given question about the vitals of this plan
G- They've screwed around with the viewer again and turned it into a crippleware lag-fest again, unless you get verified and give up personal info.

Ishtara Rothschilde adds:


H- Business owners who offer PG content on mature land will likely not be able to place PG advertisements anymore.

I- Thanks to word filters that are bound to undergo frequent changes and additions, coupled with the ambiguity of many words and phrases, harmless ads might be flagged as adult content and made invisible to the vast majority of residents. Not only that; accidental use of "bad" words can also lead to entire estates being flagged adult and thereby access restricted. Business owners will constantly have to check with unverified alts if their ads can still be seen and their land is still accessible.

J- The advertising options of adult businesses will be crippled. Their land ads and classifieds will simply no longer be seen by the majority of residents, including all new residents. The latter are the target group for advertising; after all, only new residents really need all the basic appearance items and accessories.

K- Future new residents will not even be aware that there is adult content in SL. They will sign up without the need to verify, and then use a viewer that won't show any adult content related options to the unverified. This might cause even fewer new residents than now to stay after a short trial period.

L- Private islands hosting adult content will be subjected to the same rules as the Ursula continent, despite the fact that nobody can accidentally bump into adult content outside of the mainland. People need to explicitly choose to access private sims by clicking a teleport button.
(Points K and L show that this is not a matter of giving residents more choice, but an attempt to hide adult content from the public eye).

M- Mixed residential and commercial areas are a very popular business model. The landlords will now have to either kick all adult merchants from their sim, or throw out all tenants who can't find a way to verify their age or choose to protect their privacy. In either case, this will be a huge financial loss for many (not to speak of the tenants who lose their homes over this).

N- Mall owners will also have to discriminate against half their tenants. Either they decide their mall to be an adult place, thereby severely limiting the business and advertising options of their non-adult merchants, or throw out all adult merchants.
(Points M and N alone are a major catastrophe with the potential to severely damage two of the the most popular business models in SL.)

O- If such malls or mixed residential and commercial areas are on the mainland, the owners will also have to ask their remaining tenants / merchants to relocate along with them. Which is not only a huge organizational effort (nobody knows the timeline yet, things might happen on very short notice). Some merchants will likely decide to cut ties for a while, until they've seen how traffic numbers develop after the relocation.

P- Affiliate vendors are yet another popular business model that is likely to suffer from these changes. Adult content providers who offer affiliate vendors have no control over where their content is being sold. If LL punishes them for unwittingly selling in non-adult areas, affiliate vendor programs are no longer viable for adult merchants, which hurts three businesses at once (the vendor scripters/sellers, the content creators who rely on them and their sales affiliates)
~~~~~

I thought having these points written out like this would be helpful. Feel free to pass this around if you think it'll do some good.

I so entirely agree with this.

And while a proper age verification system might well be inconvenient for the bank, the bank's answer to that might be to charge a fee for the service. Personally i would be prepared to pay a modest fee if it would avoid the mess we are about to be thrown into now

First of all, it is not a given that Aristotle do not have access to the information in question. There is reason to conclude they should not have access, but that is not the same thing.

Ideally, governments should provide this service, and could even do so by implementing new personal ID numbers separate from those they use for tax and other purposes.

It would have to use a blind of some sort... business requesting verification would have to contact the government site, then the government site would have to contact the individual being verified for confirmation... basicly the same thing a bank would do, but better since the person being verified would not have to reveal where they bank and since the bank would have no incentive to cover the costs of providing such services routinely.

Has anyone else been following the armwrestling going on at the JIRA over whether or not it's a meta issue, and people changing the status from show stopper to critical and back again? Not to mention the frequent attempts to close it...

*sigh*