RC Questions
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Darien Caldwell
Registered User
Join date: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,127
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05-10-2009 08:31
From: Lord Sullivan Sadly I have to agree with you, it is these people both sides of the coin, with name calling of the opposite side that need to grow up and act like Adults. Reminds me sometimes of junior school kids in the playground  Everyone in this issue has the right to be heard, for or against without the need to resort to name calling or labels. Just my opinion though  There are plenty who agree with that sentiment, such as myself. |
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Darien Caldwell
Registered User
Join date: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,127
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05-10-2009 08:35
From: Qie Niangao This morning I submitted an application for an SL6B exhibit that, if approved, will help visitors learn how to get qualified for Adult content and how to set their viewers for different maturity ratings of land access and Search results.
Of course I won't know until June 1 whether or not the application is approved. It may be a topic too sensitive for a birthday party (and might be a little *too* germane to the "Future of Virtual Worlds" theme); they may not even believe my assurance that the exhibit will be strictly instructional, not taking a position on the policy itself.
Even if they don't approve it, I think there's a need for something like this, in-world, so I'm going to build it anyway, and drop it on an otherwise unused parcel next to the Forum Cartel Hangout. So now I'm thinking more seriously about what this thing should be and how it should work, and looking for help with the following:
Brainstorming. Any suggestions? I'll eventually post what I already have in mind for this, but before I contaminate everybody's brains, I'd greatly appreciate any ideas for making this thing as informative and fun as possible.
Translation. I have command of at most one language, and that's on a good day. As much as the exhibit should be interactive and fun, it's going to need some text to describe what attendees need to do to get verified. So, to maximize the reach, it will need multilingual text content. (Also, a question for scripters of multilingual apps: is llGetAgentLanguage() worth using, or do too many people have the "Share language with objects" preference disabled, or choose a different language anyway?)
Content specifics. Most of the details can be gleaned from LL's own KB content, release notes, and the viewer behavior itself, but some things aren't so clear. At the moment, my deepest bafflement is how to get an answer to this question: Basic members with Payment Info On File according to their account page but not in-world need to get Support to fix that; what should we tell them about how they can go about filing that Support ticket? This seems to be a pretty common problem, and it seems everybody who has tried so far has gotten from Support the instructions for manual *age* verification--as used for disproving spurious ARs accusing a resident of being underage--which must be about the worst possible course of action both for the resident and for Support, who would have to process all that material if it were actually sent. So, can anyone help with that? (Blondin?) Qie, Any more info on this, I think it's an important and constructive project. Or are you waiting to see if the idea is approved? |
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Ryanna Enfield
Registered User
Join date: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 225
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05-10-2009 08:57
From: Ann Otoole What forum posts regarding SL6B? Do you mean the blog comments that turned into a fight between 2 people on the extreme far ends of the issue?
I have not seen any other SL6B discussions. I would love to know where they are. Sorry Ann. I did mean the blog comments. You are right, it seemed to be a sort of back and forth between two people on the very extreme end of this entire issue. But honestly, I'm seeing this in other posts as well. It has been echoed throughout these forums by some, and even in other areas such as the Slexchange forums. It just seems to be a driving rift in the community so much more prominent now than it ever was before. That is what I was speaking about, and that is what I'm finding a bit depressing. But I suppose it is the growth and diversity that have caused this in a way. More people with more segmented views on how things should be within SL. I don't think there is anything wrong with opposing views. I just feel the changes that the Lindens are proposing to Adult Content are only driving that wedge in further within the community.
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Couldbe Yue
one unhappy customer
Join date: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 1,532
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Rubbery Figures
05-10-2009 09:18
assuming the adult content figures were only applied to currently mature land.
Breakdown of current regions by Ownership and Classification:
* Estate - Adult: 6
* Estate - Mature: 17883 : 4% = 715
* Estate - Offline: 2
* Estate - PG: 3452
how many of those estates house soon to be adult content is of course unknown. Along with how many estate managers will flip over. Without knowing parcel sizes I can't guess how many people are going to be affected, either because they don't want to stay on adult land or because the land won't be reclassified and they'll have to move.
* Linden - Adult: 7
* Linden - Mature: 3980 : 4% = 159.2
* Linden - Offline: 1
* Linden - PG: 1422
160 sims are required minimum.
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Assuming it was applied to the whole grid.
Breakdown of current regions by Ownership and Classification:
* Estate - All: 21343 : 4% = 853
* Linden - All: 5410 : 4% = 216.4
assuming there are an average of 4 parcels per sim = 865.6 move requests.
10 people to process @ 3/4hr per request ( there will be complex ones like multiple people wanting to share a sim etc)
6 hr productive day (8hrs with 2 hrs for all the other things that waste your time) with 8 requests processed each day.
= It will take 9 days to process everyone.
I can't even begin to guess the average size of an adult business, but if it drops to something like 2048 then the total number of move requests jumps to 32 per sim.
Which will make it 72 working days for those 10 people to process everything.
and of course it's first in best dressed with this.
_____________________
Satiated Desires: Toys for Grown Ups.
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Tcko Cazalet
Less Freedom=Exodus
Join date: 16 May 2007
Posts: 163
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Sea of Red fences
05-10-2009 09:22
After all is said and done and the swap is over...all the people left behind will be so worried of being Ar'ed that I believe the majority will put up red fences/security orbs.
mainland will become almost impossible to navigate and will be totally worthless.
I for one will lockdown my sim and set it to group only if I don't get the swap..such a shame
SL will destroy themselves!
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Couldbe Yue
one unhappy customer
Join date: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 1,532
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05-10-2009 09:28
From: Tcko Cazalet After all is said and done and the swap is over...all the people left behind will be so worried of being Ar'ed that I believe the majority will put up red fences/security orbs.
mainland will become almost impossible to navigate and will be totally worthless.
I for one will lockdown my sim and set it to group only if I don't get the swap..such a shame
SL will destroy themselves! I don't think there'll be any choice in this but to lock everything down. If I'm forced to stay then I'll have to have the account verification slapped on the shop and thinking of that, there'll be issues because some people will be age only, some account only but i think if I put both on then avs will have to be both - there's no way to specify it as an or. So my choice is to leave it open to all, despite knowing I have adult content or shutting it down so much that only those with both age and account verification can get in. S**T! someone please tell me it's an *or* rather than an *and* 
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Satiated Desires: Toys for Grown Ups.
Inworld: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Norf%20Haven/186/132/55
XSL: https://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&MerchantID=77743&&sort=age&dir=asc
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DanielRavenNest Noe
Registered User
Join date: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,076
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05-10-2009 09:52
From: Milla Janick There aren't enough regions in Ursula to accomodate the current mainland PG regions that would be displaced.
Presumably there are some people living in Mature regions that would prefer not to be upgraded to adult. There is no plan that will make everyone happy, not even "leave things the way they are". What I am looking for is an option that they might accept, and does the least harm to people. If they go forward with the proposed new PG definition, that is so restrictive that I think very few people would want it. The simplest option would be by-parcel rating of Adult, but they haven't built the software that way. The next best would be to allow landowners in a sim to petition to change the sim rating. Estate owners can do this, based on their tenants, the Lindens could do it on the mainland if they chose to. What's disruptive is creating adult sims *only* on Ursula, then forcing people to move there. |
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Talarus Luan
Ancient Archaean Dragon
Join date: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 4,831
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05-10-2009 09:55
From: DanielRavenNest Noe I'd like to hear what people think about this alternate plan:
* Upgrade ALL mainland regions one rating level (PG to Mature, Mature to Adult)
* Create Ursula as a PG only continent Sounds great to me, but it has already been presented to LL multiple times, and they have repeatedly responded "that doesn't meet our goals, sorry". |
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Talarus Luan
Ancient Archaean Dragon
Join date: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 4,831
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05-10-2009 10:09
From: Cal Kondo I agree it would be dumb of them. It would happen though if LL offered free swaps, and it would be in no ones intrest. I don't think it would happen nearly enough to be considered significant, and definitely not as a reason against offering them. From: someone That's exactly how I thought. It's like subscribing to pay TV then getting some channels removed because you didn't watch them. However, when I'm honest with myself I'm really not going to be hosting public adult activities on my home parcel (I rent out another parcel which is a another story). For me, if I changed my mind I'd be happy to know that I can sell my M land and replace it with A land without incurring unreasonable cost. That's great for you. I, however, have actually made some plans to that effect, essentially having an "adult" section to my mall/store. I have adult content that I have made and can sell; that I haven't yet in no way invalidates my desire to exercise the privilege to do so on land that I have rightfully paid for to do it on. From: someone LL do not make zoned continents... until now. This is a special case, they can change the rules, it doesn't even need to be permanent. It's only a suggestion for a solution though. It seems unlikely that LL would ever offer free land swaps for all, no questions asked. However, I'm sure that there would be general agreement that it should be easy for residents to get themselves into the correct rating. Discussions should work to solving that problem. I understand that you are making the suggestion, and that's fine. The problem is that LL has given no indication that they are going to budge from the way they are going to open up Adult Content land. Jack HAS said that, if the prices go haywire, they will "look into it", but that is hugely non-committal. They can grandfather private island tier as a compensation for shifts in their price structure. They can graduate the Homestead prices to ease the pain of that price shift. They should also make sure that those who paid for the privilege of having Adult Content can continue to do so without significant hindrance. Failing that, people have ever right to be pissed off, and can feel justified in tiering down, cashing out, and leaving. I know that's EXACTLY how I feel right this minute. From: someone I don't know this is true, although it is becoming a reasonable assumption given LLs silence on the issue. I wish they would engage a little more. Well, I can only go on what they actually say and what they actually do. So far, they get a big, fat "FAIL" in customer relationship management and communication. |
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Talarus Luan
Ancient Archaean Dragon
Join date: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 4,831
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05-10-2009 10:13
From: Argent Stonecutter Yes, on the other hand it's easy to block keywords, it doesn't take much programming so there's hardly any effort wasted if it doesn't work. I'm not so much worried about them wasting effort; that's on their heads. I'm more worried about the damage it will do from "not working". I would RATHER they put in more effort to avoid the epic fail scenario that they seem so keen on making happen. From: someone Most of the changes in this RC have nothing to do with Adult Content, and most of them should probably have been deferred. They should have done a 1.22.12 release based on the 1.22 code base if they needed to get their nanny client out quickly, instead of advancing the regular release cycle to force it out on schedule. Yeah, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, either, but that particular state of affairs they seem to be pretty consistent at maintaining. :-/ |
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Waterstar Eilde
Registered User
Join date: 12 May 2007
Posts: 404
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05-10-2009 10:42
From: Ciaran Laval Has anyone found any words that are filtered in PG search but not mature, or is mature just a behaviour issue and PG search worthy to all intents and purposes? I've been doing a little playing around, using some of the words I previously checked, and some new ones. I can only assume LL are going to rely on the adult flagging of land to filter some of these from search in Places. Unfortunately, they don't seem to have realised yet that words don't exist in isolation... Some results in Places: sex = only returns in adult bukkake = only returns in adult, BUT bukkake bliss = returns in adult & mature bdsm = only returns in adult, BUT bdsm party = returns NOTHING in adult BUT lots of sex-related results in mature gor = only returns in adult, HOWEVER woman - returns gor-related venues as well as ads like !!! Skins Cocks Pussy Nipples Sex Animations and ShOp Cinema Porn Sex in mature AND PG boy - returns just as many sex-related entries in mature AND PG leather - returns Strapped Submissive, Extreme Factory of Gay Sex in mature AND PG Classifieds (specifically, Shopping) behaves itself with sex, bukkake and bdsm, BUT bdsm party (which I deliberately chose to see what happens with compound word searches) still returns sex-related entries in PG, as do 'woman', 'boy' and 'leather', including gor-related, gay and lesbian sex, fetish, sex beds - oh, and The Diaper Superstore I'll continue to see what other creative options I can come up with, but clearly, Search as it stands is never going to meet LL's expectations. |
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DanielRavenNest Noe
Registered User
Join date: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,076
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05-10-2009 10:56
From: Talarus Luan Sounds great to me, but it has already been presented to LL multiple times, and they have repeatedly responded "that doesn't meet our goals, sorry". Which is a BS non-answer, as is the "more predictable experience". What is less predictable than changing the basic rules for your land? Even the claim of opening the grid up for educational use does not hold water, since they just announced a *separate grid* for that, just like we asked them to do for the Adult-shy:  What I am searching for is something that is less impact on all of us than "downgrade everyone's rights on their existing land, and make some people move by force", and that they find acceptable. |
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Wynochee LeShelle
Polykontexturalist
Join date: 3 Feb 2007
Posts: 658
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05-10-2009 11:20
From: Waterstar Eilde gor = only returns in adult, HOWEVER Not that I would have any relation to Gor, but this is another mad move from LL. Because my region and city Vienna is in SL, Austria is in SL and some small towns of Austria are in SL too. What if Gor likes to be represented in SL too? Gor (Spain), a town in Granada, South of Spain or Gor, Hungary, a village in Hungary or Gor, the ancient name for Firouzabad, a city in modern Fars Province, Iran or if someone searches for: Government Office Region, the highest tier of local government in England or GOR method, a method for secondary structure prediction, developed by J. Garnier, D. Osguthorpe and B. Robson or GOR, Government Officers' Residences in Pakistan and more... |
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Innula Zenovka
Registered User
Join date: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 1,825
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05-10-2009 11:35
From: Wynochee LeShelle Not that I would have any relation to Gor, but this is another mad move from LL.
Because my region and city Vienna is in SL, Austria is in SL and some small towns of Austria are in SL too.
What if Gor likes to be represented in SL too?
Gor (Spain), a town in Granada, South of Spain
I took Blondin's reply at the office hours last week, From: someone
[16:23] Blondin Linden: [16:21] Hiri Nurmi is still waiting on an answer why her sim will be set to adult because it uses a word from novels deemed prefectly acceptable to publish in the 1960 ANSWER: I think YOUR filtered word will also be removed from the list
to mean that, like BDSM, "Gor" is likely to be removed from the list of filtered words. Guess if it's not, before too long LL will be having to try to figure out how to filter words like "Counter" and "Earth". |
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Talarus Luan
Ancient Archaean Dragon
Join date: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 4,831
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05-10-2009 11:50
From: Waterstar Eilde woman - returns gor-related venues as well as ads like !!! Skins Cocks Pussy Nipples Sex Animations and ShOp Cinema Porn Sex in mature AND PG
boy - returns just as many sex-related entries in mature AND PG
leather - returns Strapped Submissive, Extreme Factory of Gay Sex in mature AND PG Oh, that is funny. All this effort, all this pissing off their customer base, and someone types "woman" into search and gets all that adult content returned, then promptly reports to the media "SEE! SEE! SL IS STILL JUST FOR PR0N!". Classic. Epic. Fail. XD Their alternative? Add the entire dictionary to the word filter.  From: someone I'll continue to see what other creative options I can come up with, but clearly, Search as it stands is never going to meet LL's expectations. That's for damn sure. |
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Kalderi Tomsen
Nomad Extraordinaire!
Join date: 10 May 2007
Posts: 888
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05-10-2009 11:58
From: DanielRavenNest Noe I also think we are kinda worn out talking about this, I'm trying to collect the good ideas in one place, but we are repeating ourselves a lot. I tend to agree with you, DanielRavenNest - this discussion is going round and round in circles. All the brilliant new ideas I see have been suggested countless times already (oooh, create a PG continent - that's a new one!!!!). LL have said that they're not going to do that,l but somehow we feel that continuing to suggest it will make them sit up and change their minds.... This move has been likened to just about pretty much every RL crime against humanity (slavery, Hitler, racism, McCarthism) - not sure there's much new there and even if there were, it wouldn't change anyone's minds. A lot of people are very upset about the direction that LL is going, how this will personally affect them (and not "effect them" , or about how badly LL are managing this huge change to the world. I'm not sure that there is much that can happen, short of LL abandoning the idea, and I see no sign of them doing that yet, in spite all the points that have been brought up, and the veiled threats of legal action (oh sorry, they weren't threats, they were supposed to be educating LL to the legal aspects of this that their own lawyers didn't tell them about). From: Day Oh It just occurred to me that either this RC is gonna become a required SL Viewer update, or if it's not, they're gonna have even more complaints and trouble tickets than one may have previously imagined, as people try to figure out what's keeping their teleport or search from working as expected... This may be spectacular  I read that what is going to happen is that those who do not upgrade to a 1.23 version viewer will have no access to Adult land or search results. So people who do not want access to this can happily go on with older versions. I think that it's going to take the uncovering of some major new show-stopper to get LL to rethink this. The currently presented ones aren't moving them.
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Wynochee LeShelle
Polykontexturalist
Join date: 3 Feb 2007
Posts: 658
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Update about deleted protest signs
05-10-2009 12:19
Jack Linden and Harry Linden answered both and Harry Linden informed me today that neighbors felt harrassed by the size/position of the sign(s). Residents in the region had reported the signs as visual spam in the region. Harry Linden reviewed the signs and I am welcome to install the sign(s) again, he just asked that I do not use the signs to harass other residents view nearby in the region. I am ok with the answers and the solution and I thanked Harry Linden for that. It sounds ok for me. I updated also the wiki about that. http://www.slapt.me/wiki/index.php/Scarlet_Linden_deleted_several_adult_content_protest_signs |
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Tcko Cazalet
Less Freedom=Exodus
Join date: 16 May 2007
Posts: 163
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05-10-2009 12:26
From: Wynochee LeShelle Jack Linden and Harry Linden answered both and Harry Linden informed me today that neighbors felt harrassed by the size/position of the sign(s). Residents in the region had reported the signs as visual spam in the region. Harry Linden reviewed the signs and I am welcome to install the sign(s) again, he just asked that I do not use the signs to harass other residents view nearby in the region. I am ok with the answers and the solution and I thanked Harry Linden for that. It sounds ok for me. I updated also the wiki about that. http://www.slapt.me/wiki/index.php/Scarlet_Linden_deleted_several_adult_content_protest_signsLOL...you should have seen my 50m cubes rotating..one neighbor complained (in the next sim) but didnt file against me...hell they were big enough to be seen several sims away  bad tcko bad, bad |
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Couldbe Yue
one unhappy customer
Join date: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 1,532
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05-10-2009 12:36
From: Wynochee LeShelle Jack Linden and Harry Linden answered both and Harry Linden informed me today that neighbors felt harrassed by the size/position of the sign(s). Residents in the region had reported the signs as visual spam in the region. Harry Linden reviewed the signs and I am welcome to install the sign(s) again, he just asked that I do not use the signs to harass other residents view nearby in the region. I am ok with the answers and the solution and I thanked Harry Linden for that. It sounds ok for me. I updated also the wiki about that. http://www.slapt.me/wiki/index.php/Scarlet_Linden_deleted_several_adult_content_protest_signsohhhhh i wonder if their noses grew as they typed those responses... if your neighbours had ARd you then when the objects were returned you should have got a wagging finger email. sounds like a rats in the corner excuse to me. It's easier to blame your neighbours than it is to say the lovely Scarlett stepped over the line.
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Satiated Desires: Toys for Grown Ups.
Inworld: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Norf%20Haven/186/132/55
XSL: https://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&MerchantID=77743&&sort=age&dir=asc
Blog: http://satiateddesires.wordpress.com/
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Lord Sullivan
DTC at all times :)
Join date: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 2,870
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05-10-2009 12:58
From: Wynochee LeShelle Jack Linden and Harry Linden answered both and Harry Linden informed me today that neighbors felt harrassed by the size/position of the sign(s). Residents in the region had reported the signs as visual spam in the region. Harry Linden reviewed the signs and I am welcome to install the sign(s) again, he just asked that I do not use the signs to harass other residents view nearby in the region. I am ok with the answers and the solution and I thanked Harry Linden for that. It sounds ok for me. I updated also the wiki about that. http://www.slapt.me/wiki/index.php/Scarlet_Linden_deleted_several_adult_content_protest_signsThanks for updating the wiki as over time it will become a good collective resource for people to read and detailing this sort of Faux pas from Linden staff. Its nice to see people working on it and building it up and just reporting the facts as they present themselves. I hope people continue to post the chat logs they have with Linden staff etc. the press and blog posts and all the other pertinent information because as it grows so does the picture
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Lord Sullivan
DTC at all times :)
Join date: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 2,870
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05-10-2009 13:01
From: Couldbe Yue ohhhhh i wonder if their noses grew as they typed those responses...
if your neighbours had ARd you then when the objects were returned you should have got a wagging finger email.
sounds like a rats in the corner excuse to me. It's easier to blame your neighbours than it is to say the lovely Scarlett stepped over the line. They typed it with their noses lol and yes I agree with you here as LL will of course close ranks when one of theirs steps over the line and blame the neighbors as we can never prove otherwise, just like some LL staff take advantage of their jobs with land deals etc. LL say they will act transparently but still they are as transparent as a sheet of lead
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Independent Shopping for Second Life residents from established and new merchants. http://slapt.me slapt.me - In-World HQ http://slurl.com/secondlife/Bastet/123/118/26
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Wynochee LeShelle
Polykontexturalist
Join date: 3 Feb 2007
Posts: 658
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05-10-2009 13:07
From: Couldbe Yue ohhhhh i wonder if their noses grew as they typed those responses...
if your neighbours had ARd you then when the objects were returned you should have got a wagging finger email.
sounds like a rats in the corner excuse to me. It's easier to blame your neighbours than it is to say the lovely Scarlett stepped over the line. I have that feeling too and had it while reading the mails, but I can live with the result, hehehe But there is a 99,99% chance that you are right in your oppinion yes. |
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Lasher Oh
Smelling the coffee
Join date: 3 Apr 2007
Posts: 140
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05-10-2009 13:22
From: Wynochee LeShelle neighbors felt harrassed by the size/position of the sign(s) Governor Linden doesn't happen to be a neighbor does he? or maybe Scarlet has a secret parcel close to yours - pah pathetic excuse!
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^L^
We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are
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Viciously Llewellyn
Not Really Vicious ;-)
Join date: 27 Sep 2007
Posts: 332
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05-10-2009 14:01
From: Lasher Oh Straightforward common sense, it's the way to go - I'm guessing you won't even get an answer to the question other than 'we don't want to do that' or something equally uninformative - I hope I'm wrong.
^L^ What if people living on PG land, don't want to swith it to Mature? Will they have to move? You know, it's bad enough that people that want to sell and advertise pornography will have to move, but making people that don't sell or advertise pornogrpahy move, to accomodate those that do ... is just illogical. |
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Qie Niangao
Coin-operated
Join date: 24 May 2006
Posts: 7,138
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05-10-2009 14:36
From: Darien Caldwell Qie, Any more info on this, I think it's an important and constructive project. Or are you waiting to see if the idea is approved? I'm not waiting for approval; I'll install it next to the Forum Cartel Hangout and anywhere else anyone wants a copy, when there's something ready. But I was hoping to gather any fun suggestions first, before plodding along on my own. I'm grateful for the generous offers to help in a variety of ways. It may be a couple of weeks before I have stuff ready to review and/or translate, but maybe I can make some progress this week; I'll try.
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