RC Questions

as per information posted here anyone can age verify so the whole aristotle system is a joke.
This info will spread like wildfire once the adult grid is established, LL and Aristotle are going to be highly embarrassed when the press get hold of such an amusing story.
on the flip side LL may be anticipating it and don't really care about Aristotle and looking forward to the exta cash when they announce CC or paypal only gets you into Sin City..
if this is the case, Rip SL.

I completely agree. one the most interesting questions in the press conference yesterday was when some guy asked about stopping the penis attacks etc Cyn admitted they couldn't and started rabbiting on about how this would offer more choice etc.

my notes say:
drexter Q - grid merge outlook - how relevant is this to the merger? it seems educators are afraid penises will drop on their kids

Cyn - we can't stop 13yo doing this but we can provide a predictable search. no decisions on the merge have been made yet
Cyn tries to convince them that cleaning up search will make educators more comfortable
- they'll engage with the community about that (the penis issue).

go here for the archive copy of the press conference non-event: http://www.mogulus.com/metaworld2

Unless the product is completely firewalled from the Internet and the grid, it doesn't address those issues. And it's not, because they HAD that product in 2005... they didn't need to work with IBM to create it. A company that blocks IMAP and POP access to employees isn't going to open up access to the asset servers.

Again, they had a better product for low performance graphics hardware years ago, before Windlight.

Second Life is not developing in a direction that makes it more acceptable to business, it's going the other way.

Agreed 100%.

I work for a major Corporate IT outsourcing company, itself a multinational corporation. Some bright boys in PR tried to use SL recently as a way of getting employees together for a simple celebration of the company's 50th anniversary. They bought 8 sims, and set them up to have the main sim and its 6 mirrors each able to host a full 100 people at a time. (The 8th sim is a sandbox). End result, for this Corporation of 90,000+ tech-savvy employees? The entire 7-sim region had a whopping 90 or so entries in their "guest book", even counting some chit-chat posted in it as repeat replies back and forth between people. And I NEVER saw more than 7 people in the 8 sim region at any one time, not even at the height of the proposed celebration. Most of the time, it was entirely empty, or had only one or two people in the whole area. And that was just to try for a social setting, where security didn't matter! It was an utter flop as a use of company resources.

That same Corporation wouldn't dream of actually holding a business meeting in Second Life. Certainly not on the publicly-accessible grid, or even on those under-used private sims. Too little security, and too little access control. Not to mention that you can't get enough people in a single place for a meeting and still be able to move...

I also do work in SL for a number of major Universities that have a presence in SL. The things that go on between residents on the Mainland don't concern them at all. They have their private island sims, and can control what happens there, well enough for their liking. What some student or professor does elsewhere in SL on their own time is no more their concern than it is in real life.

If LL wants to attract a segment of the population that is offended by the over-18 only adult world that Linden Lab encouraged or at least allowed its residents to create, then they need to make a pure and sanitized seperate grid for those easily-offended people. Open that up to 13 and up ages, and have seperate accounts and asset servers, so absolutely no adult content from the main grid can be had there. Give that a try, with maybe 50 sims. See if they get any takers. Before trying to sanitize a grid of several thousand sims, to create something that there is no proof there is a market for. But even if they do that, there will still be griefers who will whip up a 4-prim wanker in a sandbox, download explicit skins and wear them on clothing layers, and go streaking through the G-rated areas shouting obscenities in text chat and in Voice chat! No matter how much they lock it down, they can't make a publicly-accessible version of Sl that will remain pure and G-rated.

ETA not in my case - all my alts are PIU but none retained the setting (including my main).

Nods. Bizarre griefing will happen if you let every resident create content. "Industrial" immersive environment suppliers are severely limiting which users can create graphical content -- the only things that general users can bring in is media in collaborative spaces. Some allow super-users to create content, but not all environments even do that.

/me notes that one reason why SL is so much more compute-intensive than other environments is because of the user-created content. I doubt LL has the will/resources to ever back away from that part of their platform, even just in a corporate product. It is a big contributor to what Argent correctly cites -- SL is well-suited to entertainment.
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Which is why your comment that these institutions are necessary for SL's success didn't ring true for me. Changing SL to the point where it addresses these needs will leave it as a completely different kind of product.

Occasionally I speak precisely - I didn't say they were necessary for SL's success, I said they were necessary for LL's success!

SL is a wildly successful entertainment service just as it is. However, I don't believe Linden Lab the COMPANY can be successful unless it goes beyond that, to business/education/work communities. If LL stays the provider of a single very popular MMOG (or 3D social network, call it what you will) it will not go public and may not even negotiate a merger that is at all respectable. Which, for the executives and VCs that created/run the company, is what "success" has to mean.

p.s. And, while I am completely convinced that LL COULD make this leap if they wanted to, even if it took creating a stripped-down version of SL's platform, I am pretty sure they do not have the will to do so. This sort of failure-to-grow happens to a lot of extremely promising startups that make single wildly successful products - it is hard for them to believe that investing in a different product/service/market is wise. *shrugs*
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QFT - my own institution was seriously looking at a presence in SL until it became obvious there was no significant advantage, except possibly for international recruiting. We don't have huge numbers of distance students, and the one presentation made to senior staff members was pretty much a disaster - too much lag, a laptop with insufficient RAM, inadequate skills on the part of the presenter - in short, no 'wow' factor. I wasn't present, but I can just imagine

Sun, on the other hand, are much better known and don't leave it up to enthusiastic amateurs to sing the praises of their product. They've made several good presentations with, importantly, a built-in 'comfort' factor (i.e., focusing on ease of use) which is essential for the majority of potential users who are not nearly as computer-savvy as one might think or expect. Sheesh, only the other day, I had to explain to a colleague how to drag documents into a folder!!! (Sadly. I'm not joking.)

Oh, and thanks so much for the bear, Ceera - it will get put to good use

The people advertising adult and violent material have been asked to move, and will move. This is painful for them to be sure. They had asked to have people who did not want to see this sort of thing move, but that isn't how it went.

As I see it, the people that have been asked to move have given much. It is time for Linden Labs to give back.

1. As several have mentioned, the new list of adult words and terms needs to be published immediately, and great effort needs to be made to keep it up to date.

2. When a new person comes to Second Life, there needs to be a part of the orientation process that gives them instruction on how to see adult content, meaning how to get PIOF and/or age verify themselves. This shouldn't be something they have to seek out and find, it should be part and parcel to the initial orientation process.

3. When a person puts PIOF or age verifies, the DEFAULT settings need to be the ability to see adult content, with instructions given on how to filter these things out. This is very important, and would perhaps calm some fears that new people will not know how to get hold of what these vendors have to offer.

4. A panel of end users should be set up, with the goal of laying out a mapwork for an adult sim, to help ensure that two clubs don't end up next to each other, etc ... This is possibly the strongest argument those opposing this plan have ... it is time for The Lab to recognize the logic behind this and take steps to ensure that this will not happen.

5. Adult content needs to be assigned their own G-Team. This G-Team should include opinions by some of the adult content vendors. The reasoning is simple ... they are being forced into a special grouping, not of their own doing ... they should also be made part of the moderation process for that group.

You were too bloody subtle for me. Should probably have explained the distinction you were making up front.

Remember, ferrets have teeny weeny little brains.

I agree with these points and think there should be seperate JIRAs for solutions to the issues the new policy will create. I still do not like or agree with how LL is going about this but as we can see they have made up their minds and are going full steam ahead. I somehow feel though that Legal Linden will not like the idea of telling new residents about the hidden adult stuff though. Who knows. Great points and suggestions though.

This may be partly my fault. What I suggested, way back when, was that attempting to see adult content wouldn't be simply refused... but it would direct you to how to enable it FOR YOU.

For example, when you attempted to teleport to Ursula, you might get a dialog asking if you wanted to enable adult access.

In this case, the "adult" box shouldn't be simply "grayed out", it should pop up a dialog pointing to the preferences if you were verified, or to a web page on verification if you weren't.

It sounds like they half-implemented that.

No, not yet

I volunteered to try out the 1.23 even before it reached RC0. Its in my personal interest as someone who makes a fair amount from adult business in SL to (a) understand the new rules we will have to work under, and (b) understand how the software works and does not work.

Beyond my personal interest, I have lots of friends in the adult side of things in SL. I want them to continue to succeed and have fun too.

So, I will continue to ask for clarification, poke the software, document the bugs and holes and workarounds, and tell as many people as possible in as many ways as possible.

Here is a suggestion:

Instead of trying to filter every possible dirty word in every language on the planet...

How about... Classified ads and search results are based on the rating of the sim, or to parcel rating if LESS than sim rating. No "banned word lists". And the Maturity Ratings need to clearly spell out what can and can't be done in various sim ratings. Then give people a 6 month grace period to move as needed, allowing free moves for anyone who asks to go to a different rating.

So, if you are placing an ad from an Adult sim, it's rated Adult. Place an ad from a PG sim, it's PG. Place one from a Mature sim, it's Mature. This does mean that a merchant who sells mixed ratings would need multiple stores, based on rating.

Allow the individual Residents to choose in Preference a default max rating they want to experience. But it defaults to the max allowed for them. Adult, if they have payment info or are Aristotle Verified.

Keep the three checkbox idea for the search tabs, but it filters based on sim type, not on a banned word list.

SO... If I am unverified, I'd default to Mature. I would see that there are checkboxes available for Adult, but they are greyed out. Trying to check them gets a message on how to get adult verified.

If I am verified but have selected a lower rating, such as Mature, then my search tabs will show adult as greyed out, and if I try to check Adult, it will tell me I ned to change my Preferences limits before I can do that. Maybe it would even ask if I want to change them to match the higher rating.

Setting your preferred rating should be done at either installation of the client or before the first login with the client. Once it connects to the server it will then verify what the account is allowed and give them a message what their allowed rating is and set it lower automatically if need be.

I added some items to the buglist.

* Default maturity and search settings should be made consistent with your verification status on first login.

* You should get a "first time use" popup explaining maturity levels. This should appear the first time you try and change the settings in preferences or search, or the first time you are blocked in search or teleport due to maturity levels.

Currently there is a message when you search for a filtered word, but that's not the same thing. It needs to along the lines of this:

"You are attempting to enter an adult region. To do this you need to have a verified account and set your preferences. For instructions click <here>"

"You are attempting to set maturity levels in search, some levels are only available to verified accounts...."

etc.

When the discussion here has gone on a bit more and RC0 bugs have been identified, we should go and make JIRA issues for reach one so they can be fixed.

(or if the Lindens don't want to fix it, document the workarounds)

Go to Search/All, with mature level checked on an unverified account

Enter "penis balls", note that penis is ignored in search

Enter "penis(balls)", note that results now include penis

/me searches around a little online and finds many places, with very little work, where you can get US$20 pre-paid Visa cards. It's been.. er.. a few years since I was a teen but I don't think US$20 would be too hard for a kid to come up with nowdays.

Again, total failure of this project to meet the goal. Or do you have something else that makes you think this stuff is going to help keep kids out? Keep in mind that they're already lying to get onto the adult grid.

I have to take umbrage to that. There is nothing misguided about this. Can you seriously give any reason children should be able to see adult content? Can you seriously give any reason someone who has no desire to see anything adult of any nature should be bombarded with ads for cocks and whatever else every time they search anything at all? Can you really say that people have no right to a sex free SL?

People seem to have lost perspective. Second Life isn't an alternate universe. It's a service run on computers in the Real World. Real World Rules, Real World Values, Real World Laws, all apply to Linden Lab. They can't just declare themselves their own country and ignore the fact that they could easily get their ass sued off for some of the stuff going on in here. The Supreme Court just upheld that the FCC has the right to fine TV stations huge fines for even *one* small slip of profanitiy on any show, at any time.

LL may be trying to make a better world, but that world certainly doesn't exist outside where LL's offices are. And LL has to protect LL, Foremost, and First. Their plan is incredibly minor in comparison to the alternative, which is to IMVU Secondlife by removing everything. I frankly think people are damn ungrateful for what they are doing.

And I thought this thread was about the RC client, not about rehashing all this again.

The phrase is "Account Verification". It does not involve only looking at the possession of a credit card as a form of identification. People need to get over the Account Verification aspect. First it was "All pron sites need is a yes/no button press and not all this Darth Vader Sith Lord Aristotle stuff". Then, unbelievably, when LL derives how they can proceed legally by way of having a relationship that indicates an adult is driving the keyboard, you people start attacking them for that too.

The vitriol spew facility is over on the jira. This thread is supposed to be for discussion of the release candidate and content filtering because it is going to happen and we need to make sure it happens without catastrophic errors.

I.e.; the protest stage is over. (Actually it always was since this has been the plan for a very long time anyway and nothing is going to stop it) This is the refining and education phase. Some of us want to survive and are trying to figure out how by way of seeing what this stuff really does.

If you place an ad on PG land it's rated PG. If you place an ad on mature land you have a choice of PG and Mature but whichever rating you set, that's it, it will only appear in that search.

So I've just placed a PG ad on a mature sim and nobody who searches just based on adult or mature will see that advert.

Not a fan of this at all.

Yesterday a PG flagged ad consisting of nothing but the word "Apple" in both the name and description placed on a PG rated parcel in a mature rated region would be found in a mature search but not in a PG only search rofl.

This leads me to suspect visibility was tied to parcel rating yesterday.

Again I request Linden Lab tell us what the expected behavior is supposed to be so we can probe it for flaws and report them.

Well I suspect the current Mature parcel rating will be removed anyway. so things will still show up in search that are not permitted until that is removed and sims are flagged by the sim level rather than parcel. If I remove my Mature content flag for my sim I show up in PG search but if I flag it I do not show up at all in PG searches. That part of the system will not be able to be tested until that option is removed. Is it the same way over on the beta grid?