Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Answers to Questions

What if your customers have no faith in the assurances of your "white label age verification service" because they have a record of not only retaining demographic information, but *selling* it?



So your answer is:

"We won't be doing that because we hadn't planned to do that?"

What people here and on other threads have been trying to tell you is that the people who are *offended* by adult content are the *minority*.
Most of the residents either approve of, or simply don't *mind* adult content. they are perfectly happy with a "mixed use' mainland.
The only people *unhappy* with a "mixed use" mainland are the ones who want a "pg only" experience in SL.
You won't be able to give it to them unless you prohibit everything else in a given area, mercilessly enforce PG only standards, and put said area off by itself so that it doesn't border any "offensive areas".

How do you expect to accomplish any of this without segregating the *PG only* areas?
It is an impossible task.
Also, your goal of knowing for certain the age of every SL'er that is exposed to "adult content" is silly on the face of it. there are supposed to be *no* residents under the age of 18. *none*. you literally have an entire population of residents who are old enough to choose for themselves whether they wish to see such things or not, and who are mature enough to suffer no ill effects during the brief time it takes them to teleport elsewhere.

Putting all the "adult content" off by itself won't solve any of your problems. It will only add to them.
The only only logical answer to what LL hopes to accomplish is to create a new "Disney/corporate/airlock" land mass that serves as a PG only area, a place for corporate clients to set up in-world operations, and as a place that all new residents are restricted to until they have payment/age info on file.

I mean seriously- Is some minor's mother going to be *more* upset that little jimmy is hanging out at a strip club, or a nude beach? or going to a free sex club, or having pixel-sex with someone in a private home?

Yet your plan leave little jimmy free to wander the "mature" areas of SL at will, experiencing all the sex and violence his black little heart desires, as long as it isn't *commercial*.

this seems like an *awful* lot of trouble to go through for something that inconveniences possible a *majority* of SL residents, and doesn't do *anything* to address the issues that you *say* LL wants to deal with.

What is the *actual* agenda here blondin? because LL's plan doesn't do what you say you want it to do.


-V-

I resent the implication that I am attempting to weasel a loophole when I have stated clearly that the whole 1/4 sim is MY HOME which covers indoor and outdoor areas just as my RL home covers my house, yard and garage. I have a 8 ft privacy fence enclosing my back yard and yes I have BDSM equipment IN my yard and have had it for yrs. As it is not overlooked by anyone and I obey the municipal noise bylaws I can do whatever I like on my private property...including hold yard sales, tupperware parties and fetish parties.

Had you read my original question to Blondin you would have seen that I stated that the external two sim borders have 40M high walls extending the full length of my property. No walls are needed within the sim because our extended RL family owns the full sim. The gardens had trees, structures, shrubs and all the usual landscaping as well as BDSM toys which I view both as functional items and as decorations. I do not have a dungeon and why should I have to hide my toys in some hole to avoid some prude's cam?

I am asking why SL cannot apply the same courtesy in a virtual environment which was supposed to be an escape from such prudery...and so far the responses have indicated that SL will soon become a boring, bland "clean" world where the only activities will be griefing and dancing in bot camps.

Morganna

a: You can *see* kids, therefore an argument of "They said they were 18- it's not my Fault if their parents weren't watching them" isn't plausible or reasonable.
The more information you have, the greater your responsibility to act upon it, if appropriate. That's a cornerstone of the law *anywhere*.
Which is why LL asking for *more* information is a bad idea *FOR LL*. It puts them under greater responsibility to *act* upon that information, and opens up whole new areas of liability if they fail to do so.
Rather than *reducing* their responsibilities, they will be *adding* to them.

This is not a "straw man" argument, by the way. Arguing about how children are kept from being exposed to adult material in real life, and then comparing a real-life x-rated movies and activities with a *cartoon* interactive computer program with Sex animation poseballs....

Now *that's* a "straw man" argument!

-V-

Stability is the zillion dollar question. Unless the other worlds can outperform LL on this then it wont matter how beautiful they look.

I agree in RL i would go and crack some heads but as we all know this isn't RL and LL rules in whatever way they see fit, irrespective of whether we like it or not, or however crazy we think it is. Problem i can see there is that all adult venues could continue, using the model you describe. Example on our plot we do not charge for anything and we have 3 homes also on the plot, we are certainly not here to make money nor do we ever cash any L$'s out. we also have playthings out, so technically we could change a few things in search etc and declare our plot a homestead type affair and then apply the rules that you apply to yours, so again the whole thing just leaves things open for yet more abuse across the grid and that is why i would imagine LL are being extreme in many ways over this.



As Blondin quoted above page 70 post# 1174 it "seems" that anywhere that holds public events and advertises the same is considered an "Adult venue" Perhaps if it people didn't advertise gatherings of an "Adult" nature and just invited a few select friends, perhaps they could get away with it unless the PG Grid police got wind of it and reported it, who knows eh?

Personally I hope they get this sorted and as soon as possible so we can get on with our adult activities on the new adult land

Thanks for all the answers to my puzzlement about why the IDV age-restricted parcels/sims in addition to the Adult only sims. On the sub-Adult sims, it does make sense that the landowner may want to allow access only to proven of-age residents, even if the content doesn't meet the "Adult" criteria.

I'm still a little unclear about the use of IDV restrictions on already Adult sims. It seems an admission that the other forms of gaining Adult access (PIOF, etc.) are really not all that effective at screening out minors. Of course we know that's true, and we also know that IDV isn't any better. But if we're trying to please the prudes and PR people, it would seem important that the lip-service be internally consistent.

When I asked the question, I had a vague idea that this was about landowner liability. LL might think that being on an Adult sim wouldn't absolve the landowner from liability for Little Johnny seeing prim boobies, but having the parcel IDV age-restricted would mean that Aristotle would be sitting at the defense table along with the landowner when Little Johnny's parents tried to cash-in on his delinquency. By telling landowners that they should still IDV-restrict Adult content, LL might hope to avoid being a party to litigation about Adult content that wasn't IDV restricted.

Well at least 1 of my questions has been answered thanks to Ceera's persistence. Now perhaps Blondin would address the question of whether the aforementioned "sexual content" covers BDSM toys which are on display in outdoor areas of a private residence as previous responses have implied that BDSM content would only be acceptable if hidden from view in some manner such as in dungeons, bedrooms or skyboxes.

If my private residence is a 1/4 sim with house and gardens then the whole 1/4 sim should have the same expectation of "privacy" as someone in a skybox on 512 plot and therefore if someone cams into my sim or lands in it "unexpectedly" then they cannot AR me for having Adult content on a Mature sim...correct?

I have accepted that under these changes I am no longer able to have social events or share my home which is sad but I want to know that SL still has something to offer me otherwise I'll simply go back to Seducity and save my money.

Morganna

Really? Sticking everything "adult" into a little corner, restricting access to it on the basis of giving either LL or Aristotle personal information that makes you financially vulnerable, and being told that the laws of the land are going to change *after* you have paid your fees on the assumption that the terms and conditions of the sale would stay the same?

If segregation of all "adult" content is to *opposite* of disneyfication, then I vote that LL subject all of SL to the *opposite* of "personal responsibility and free choice".

Just a thought

-V-

Which doesn't keep anyone (especially government agencies and schools) from doing it. When I went to university, my SSN was my student number, and it decorated every transcript, and communication from the school. Stores used to ask for it on checks, banks even printed it *on* the checks (along with Driver's license number and address).

The law that you mention is pretty recent, and it hasn't really sunk in yet

-V-

Thank you for responding to my questions as now we, meaning our entire RL family of 25+ accounts, can decide if we will continue to pay tier for a sim that no longer meets our expectations or collective needs.

As a side note I should state that of that 25 accounts which reside in our sim only 3 of us would be considered "alternative" lifestyles (1 RL Domme and 2 practicing submissive Pagans) which are affected by these sweeping changes. The REST of that group are the very same mainstream "general" audience Linden Labs is so desperate to attract by forcing all Adult content behind walls and underground. Some of them so PG and vanilla they find Nickalodeon "too adult"!

If we, the unacceptable "Adult Content", leave SL those 22 accounts will go with us and so will the tier they pay and the $L they spend. I am sure that pattern will be repeated over and over as friends and family of departing "Adult" members choose to vote with their wallets and support other worlds and services that do not segregate and sanitise in the mistake belief that every adult wants a "predictable" experience with no imagination, excitement, creativity...or sexuality.

Morganna

Or what about the fact that often BDSM scenes have NO sexual activity whatsoever? Genitals stay covered at all times with no physical contact between Top and bottom? Just because one ties a sub to a post and spanks him/her does not automatically mean that sex will follow...

(SM is now generally understood to stand for SubMission or Slave and Master/Mistress)

Morganna

This is all really depressing. I can't wait for the new adult continent to be available so we can move there and forget this whole stupid argument. My questions is: will i have a right to get help to relocate there or will i first have to prove that i meet some kind of extreme for adult behavior before i get relocation help?

Owww, my head hurts...

First, according to Blondin, if LL had our payment info on file, we were OK. Now, he only thinks so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blondin Linden
You mean if you already have it on file? I THINK that if we already have that info, then we don't have to do anything and you are good to go.

First, it was only the extremest of the extreme going to the gulag, now, it's anything that smells of sex and group activity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blondin Linden (in response to Morgana Reggiane)
ANSWER: While individual interpretations will inevitably differ with regard to what defines a venue or a personal build, what is described sounds like an Adult build.

I can't keep pace - people with more power than Blondin obviously have a pretty clear picture of what they're attempting to achieve, so why not just cut the bull, lay it on the line and get the painful bit over and done with?

Actually, *this* thread is for Q&A about the new policy in general. one of the previous threads was to discuss the definition of "adult content"

As for the people giving reasons why it shouldn't be done, well, that's a question isn't it? One that never gets answered by the way!

"Given x, y, and Z, why does LL *still* insist on enacting a policy that doesn't do what they say they want it to do?"

Your answer is evidently that it's all for the children, who aren't supposed to be here in the first place, should be getting raised by their parents rather than LL, and will get in regardless of the steps LL takes to prevent them with the possible exception of "going out of business".

There are certain facts, suppositions, and deductions that people in this and other fora have brought up as to why LL is pursuing a course which will not only anger many residents but will leave it open to *greater* liability than before, while protecting it no better than a simple checkbox on the "create an account" screen.

I'd think that LL would *like* to have that information, wouldn't you?


-V-

I would be more than happy to advertise adult services on my land for any business people out there who would like some free advertising: if that would help to secure me free relocation to Ursula in a few weeks time. LL might not publish the exact criteria but it surely isn't going to take much imagination to make sure i am on the right side of the line for the assisted move to adult land.

Anyone out there like to put up some billboards on my land? I live in Baramdoli close to the border with Bora.

Ummm... Actually, it *is* age restricted. at least in the US it is. NA beer is *beer* with most of the alcohol removed, but a small amount remains. A local building trades teacher was actually fired for giving his 16-17 year old students a "near beer" each to celebrate the completion of the house that they had been building all year.

this *is* a small amount of alcohol in it, and it *is* age restricted.

"Sparkling grape juice" isn't wine. it is carbonated juice. and some places restrict the sale of that stuff too. as well as things like "just add alcohol" drink mixes

-V-

I think the adfarmers just south of me are trying to get relocated to Ursula.

I have a feeling this only the beginning. I think the mainland going to have more screaming xtreem signs and builds for a while than was ever there at the height of the land wars. lol =) o well maybe LL figure it be easier to move PG to Ursula instead.

Good Luck then

Its going to be so funny to watch it unfold

Oh is that a reference to me?
Where do you live Argent?
K.

/me wonders if I had a micro-network of 16s selling XO products if LL will give me the same in Ursula given the intention to parcel match.

Forcing all of SL to age verify in order to go where they want to go rather than merely continuing to police rare instances of ageplay as or when it happens, is tantamount to forcing the entire RL world to register as NOT a sexual offender rather than simply registering and keeping sexual offenders away from those they wish to harm.

I may not have worded it well but basically it's operating in reverse and doing much more harm than good. But then, as much as I am for strengthening laws and sentencing against sexual predators/offenders, I am also for less government and intrusion into private citizens' lives in general.

Arguments like yours are basically saying that all should pay a penalty based upon what some MIGHT do.

LOL you can keep your ad farmers, I wonder though if they will be disallowed in the free land swap as they are not an adult venue as LL defines

Now here is the Issue, myself and many other LEGIT ADULT BUSINESS owners have. There are a TON of people that aren't actually engaged in the *business* end of the adult business, however they support our right to be there, do that. What i see happening is a rash of people, knowing the changes are coming, suddenly developing an *adult* business simply to get the free land swap, so that as land becomes scarce on the *adult continent* that can then charge a HUGE amount to sell, and make a tidy profit.
Blondin has suggested a few things... but one thing that flat out has me pissed... 9 days. They say 9 days of dual ownership... so i am supposed to:
1. keep my current business running.. . LL wants their tier, regardless of how much our adult businesses suffer due to THEIR actions....
2. Round up all the people that own the 15000 prims on my FULL SIM, and move, set up and be back running 100%... in 9 days..while STILL making money to pay the teir....
3. Wait and wonder thru the numerous rumors, and speculation on when this will happen.

I own an Escort Agency. 3 years. We are adult content, on a full sim. as a 5 year resident, paying land teir on one account or the other the ENTIRE time... suffering thru numerous changes...I simply want to make sure that LL treats us as fairly as possible.
I don't want to see anyone suffer.. but honestly. Sally Joe on her 4096 she's owned for 3 months, will have little problem moving in 9 days. Billy Bob on his 2048....same deal. However....Joe Jack on his 1/2 sim, and me and the others on our FULL sims.. simply CAN'T move in 9 days. Size of currently owned land, length of business, and seniority should count for something.
And where is the schedule for the *brown-bag* meetings? I'd really like to attend one.. but i seem to not hear anything till afterwords...Anyone know where these are listed?
~Brie