Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Answers to Questions

Oh is that a reference to me?

Where do you live Argent?

I haven't either.

I've seen a few signs up at adult oriented clubs (and I'm not even talking nudity, but ones with, say, goth, vampire or such 'dark' themes maybe 'too scary' for kids) and an odd protest in a group announcement here or there, but really, the flood is coming and all of SL is barely aware of the first dribbles is what I've noticed.

Probably an unfortunate analogy...Lol.

Alexander - don't you ask yourself why all of the sudden this is a burning necessity? Hasn't LL had 'a legal team' all along?

Good science fiction has strong ties to reality. It is a believable look into the future. If it was just random abstract shapes, it may evoke emotions but I doubt it would be considered good literature.

You know I had typed out a very long lindens labs bashing. However, as I went through ready to post I read the reply by Clarissa Lowell at 11:53 AM. Pretty much, in it's entirety, I agree. We're all adults, so let's get down to business. We need definitive guidelines first and foremost. When will these be coming?

Now here is the Issue, myself and many other LEGIT ADULT BUSINESS owners have. There are a TON of people that aren't actually engaged in the *business* end of the adult business, however they support our right to be there, do that. What i see happening is a rash of people, knowing the changes are coming, suddenly developing an *adult* business simply to get the free land swap, so that as land becomes scarce on the *adult continent* that can then charge a HUGE amount to sell, and make a tidy profit.

For those merely observing, the existing 'are you 18+' with disclaimers seems to be enough, but for those participating (which includes in animated acts as of the 2006 amendment), they need to be formally ID'd to verify age. At least that is my understanding of the legislation.

If the legislation is upheld and they do not immediately comply, the whole mess could be shut down or LL get jail time. That is pretty strong incentive. They cannot really gamble on the courts agreeing with the majority in this discussion as to whether the legislation is valid or not. That is my take on it at least.

JBut people need to know that if someone abuses the privilege of having lots of alts, LL has a real and usable way to ban or suspend all their accounts at once. The problem with multiple alts isn't quantity - it's a lack of accountability, and how easy it is for anonymous, unverified alts to be used for bad purposes, (snip)

At this point, this thread needs to get off the "Why?" and "You're nuts to even try!" type conversations and get down to what's really important here. It's going to happen -

Another thought.. to all of you saying 'this is just cartoon sex', do you really believe people just partake in this for the artistic value, or that RL feelings never become involved?

Most, likely all of the 'cartoons' that have been tested in the courts have not been interactive to anywhere near the degree available in SL. They have not been anywhere near as social. If you cannot see the difference you have blinders on.

Have none of you been burned or left confused by SL relationships? Do you really feel that the availability of even simulated sex does not complicate matters or that anonymity does not always result in positive effects, since not everyone can leave there RL feelings at the door as easily as others?

If you get into any sort of sexual play with a minor, even though the minor lied about their age and hid behind an avatar, could you really say that your conscience would not be haunted? That the potential profits you would have lost from age screening justify any resulting harm? Harm is not always physical, and emotional harm usually runs deeper and a lot longer.

Saying its the parent's responsibility is a cop out. It is easy to point the fingers at others and say its their problem. If that society agreed on that, there would be no ministries of child services, no child protection legislation. It would be deemed the parents' responsibilities and the kids would be left solely in their care, good or bad.

The lobby to shut all adult activities down outright on the grounds of child protection is out there, strong, and getting legislation passed. The legislation gets stronger, rarely weaker, and when it is struck down they revise it and draft again. The majority of society does not care what your potential losses are any more than the majority of society worry about the losses of anyone else they object to.

Meeting them part way with age verification is a way of showing that yes this is taken seriously here, and LL is taking all reasonable precautions. Aristotle might not be the best means of age verification, but some means nees to be put in place.

And simply asking age is not enough. If kids were considered responsible enough to answer that question accurately, then they would also be considered responsible enough that the question should not be neccessary.

Dogboat, this is the kind of thinking that makes nannying by the state of *all* sorts of things possible.

For example, I don't enjoy football, or see why anyone else should either. It seems purely insane for someone to be paid astronomical sums of money for running up and down a pitch occasionally kicking something(or someone). Why anyone should enjoy *play* it, let alone *watch* it is beyond me.
However, just because it is beyond *me* doesn't mean that it is beyond *you*, or anyone else. The argument that nobody should have a right that you don't happen to want or need to use is the very definition of "slippery slope". Which is why the UK law is a *bad* idea. it makes it that much easier to do the same thing with something *else* that a bunch of people don't think anyone needs to do. LIke read a book with dirty words in it, or look at a picture of someone without clothes on.

-V-

Frackin' unbelievable. First you support "land speculators" that are going to screw over residents, and now you are restricting our options on previously unrestricted land.
<snip>

I restate my original question:
For those who aren't going to be forced to move... will we be given an opportunity toward the end to opt into a free land swap to Ursula?

Is listing the parcel in search reqired for the land swap?
I have set up my first 1024sqm ready for a move to ursula, I also listed it in search, but is that actually neccessary?

If adfarmers start using 50 of their 16's To place out advertising to their other small plots as intimate booths complete with animations they have advertised the plots as public places and kept within the PG guidelines for advertising.

Would that not qualify them for a move?

It may even qualify the 50 ad plots if all set to the same group.

Also would they now want to give up the 16's and make the move?
I am guessing they still sell their parcels, they don't seem to be dropping prices and abandoning them so must be at least covering tier still.

But Ceera - not to make things personal but someone has mentioned that you, yourself have many alts, for roleplay purposes.

So who is to decide, and on what criteria, whether that person and those accounts are "quality" or not? Your proposed ruling could very well be used against you - haven't thought of that?

Yes, I thought the same along the weeks. I started to build a relative long and a relative thick sculptie nose for my avatar, wich will start a small firework-particle-effect on touch.

In my rooms I will hang pictures of macro-shots of orchid - and rose-blossoms plus oysters and Phallus impudicus mushrooms

http://kamniski-vrh.net/gobe/images/phallus_impudicus.jpg

And I will use red and blue LEGO-toys, created as belt attachment, to symbolize the act...

Interesting, thanks.

I don't know offhand whether the Lindens have officially spoken on the difference there. I haven't really been looking for statements on that aspect of it. I vaguely recall their supporting the idea that people not be 'exposed' to 'adult content' even visually - seeing ads for it in search. Certainly not 'stumbling across it' in mainland.

I still wonder how anyone manages to 'stumble into' a porn shop, RL or SL. ;p

Are you kidding? The most powerful scifi of all time takes reality, puts it on its head and dresses it up in chickenfeathers and fish scales! "Fantastic Planet" is as unreal as it gets. "Matrix" gives reality the ultimate mindf***. If all SciFi is to you is spaceship and the forehead of the week, you need delve in deeper - you are merely scratching the surface.

I have for some time said I support the idea of a single master account, with payment info, age verification, and whatever, and the ability to link alts to that main so LL has a clear and definite "paper trail"...

On the topic of master accounts linked to alts, one other idea - allow people to link at least one BACKUP payment method to their account, that will be used if the primary method is overdrawn or unavailable....

That is another issue too which, while I haven't ready every single post in here - I have read a vast majority of them - and I don't think it has been discussed. But...

There needs to be a clear and well defined policy in place for grey area decisions. There are many many many things in SL that are not inherently adult, but that turn adult when used in a certain way.

For example (to use the Tombstone example above) you might have a set of "stocks" in which to imprison criminals. Not adult - and quite common in any Old West town. But, if I go there with my girlfriend and break out my "spank" hud - suddenly it's a bondage toy.

Now, imagine I have an entire medieval dungeon. There's nothing in there that causes death (well, it could if you didn't feed them and left 'em chained to the wall, I suppose). It's just a bunch of stuff that "ties" the person up, or locks them in their cell. There is absolutely nothing that is inherently sexual or violent here. BUT... the people who tend to use these types of things do tend to do it because it provides some sort of sexual pleasure, arousal, whatever you want to call it. Thus, if someone comes through, they might very well be offended by it all because the two people using it (fully clothed, but in leather and spikes and chatting in IM only) are obviously deriving some sort of adult pleasure from the place.

So... this Dungeon now is suddenly a popular BDSM hangout (primarly because it's the only place on the grid that new people can find). What happens to the person who has created this roleplay area on a Mature sim? Do they get shut down instantly? Are they given a notice that "It's come to our attention that this is being used for Adult purposes - you need to remove it or relocate yourself within 1 week". or are the people who are there using the place given some sort of punishment? Does a person who has a place like this have to plaster their sim with warning signs saying, "No SEXUALLY ORIENTED ROLEPLAY!" Do they really have to spoil the illusion they have created by spamming their sim telling people that it's not for adults play? Wouldn't, in fact, the mere explanation of what is not acceptable on the sim be considered adult material? (That a stretch I realize, but... without something clear, I have to bring it up).

Then - take it a step back... If I make restraining equipment, slave collars, cuff systems, or anything like that... it's not inherently adult, but I know full well that a vast majority of the people who purchase it will be wanting to use it for adult purposes. Do I have to move to an adult sim? And if so, how can that not possibly affect my overall sales? There are certainly many people who have non-adult sims that purchase my restraint equipment for a non-sexual means.

I make an "Outfit Manager" that uses functions from the RLV (Restrained Life) viewer which allows a person to set up specific folders in their inventory and, with three clicks on their HUD, change avatar/outfit setups, strip naked, get dressed, and so on. It's probably the most handy tool I've ever seen for people who have many outfits and avatar setups that they like to swap in between. It's not at ALL sexual in nature, but because it requires the RLV platform in order to work, the people who use the LBOM system are almost all using it in conjunction with adult roleplay. (There is also going to be a plugin available soon where someone else can access it and change your clothes, strip you, and so on - also not adult, but you know it will be used for that!) So, is this adult? Or mature? If it's mature, but then the morality police decide differently - what happens to me? And my shop that sells it? Do I have time to change over?

Near as I can tell - the answer now seems to be "if in doubt, go the safe route and call it adult." But, and believe me - if you hang out at my shop and read profiles for an hour - there is very little out there that ISN'T a sexual turn on for some people in some scenario or another. There are going to be TONS of things that fall into this "Hmmm, I better not risk it!" category. Which means that your Ursula Continent is going to be a lot more populated than you think it is going to be. It's also going to take a lot of the great content that isn't inherently adult and pull it off the main grid, too.

We make horse jumps where the rails drop when the horse hits it, the rails fall. We also make one preset course for fetish ponygirls - but ANY of the jumps can be used for that. So, to be safe, I should probably take the entire line off the main grid and mark it as adult. Then, of course, no one will ever find the products - so I might as well discontinue the line.

Virtually every furnished prefab house comes with one of those basic Multi-Love-Pose beds in it. That gets used for sex. Poof - all the great furnished prefab homes vanish from the grid. Better not risk it.

So, to repeat the question - since I guess it got lost in examples: "What is the process when something that is grey/undetermined such as a set of stocks is deemed to be adult even though it might not have been the intent of the designer at the time?" Will they have time to move smoothly? Will the get shut down? What about people who have products that are both adult and not adult - do they really have to totally isolate the stuff and develop a whole new brand?

I've always enjoyed the irony that many who espouse to be Liberal wish to have Government involved in as many aspects of our lives a possible. When did Liberal come to mean "Let someone else think for you?"

But Ceera - not to make things personal but someone has mentioned that you, yourself have many alts, for roleplay purposes.

So who is to decide, and on what criteria, whether that person and those accounts are "quality" or not? Your proposed ruling could very well be used against you - haven't thought of that?

If we succeed in the effort to provide clear definitions as to what qualifies as Adult content, this kind of ambiguity should be well mitigated.

Eh, It doesn't mean that. What it means is that you sometimes have to kiss a hysterical person's butt to get them to side with you on something that *you* think is important.

Unfortunately, this has given many people the idea that they have *right* to never be offended or uncomfortable by something that triggers their sensory apparatus.

and I'd say that things are at least as bad with the religious conservatives- "I don't like that, God/Allah/Ahuru Mazda/the flying spaghetti monster says it's sinful and wrong, so *nobody* should be allowed to do it!"

Again, it's not about "Should we allow it?". It's about "Is there a good reason why we should *prohibit* it?"

-V-

Most advocates for freedom of speech are all in favour until someone says something that annoys them, then scream as loudly as anyone else. Not everyone does, mind... some people really do believe in complete freedom of speech and are not hypoctritical about it. They are the exceptions though.