Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Answers to Questions

I haven't either.

I've seen a few signs up at adult oriented clubs (and I'm not even talking nudity, but ones with, say, goth, vampire or such 'dark' themes maybe 'too scary' for kids) and an odd protest in a group announcement here or there, but really, the flood is coming and all of SL is barely aware of the first dribbles is what I've noticed.

Probably an unfortunate analogy...Lol.

Alexander - don't you ask yourself why all of the sudden this is a burning necessity? Hasn't LL had 'a legal team' all along?

Well I'm not in this for profit Brie, i just want to live somewhere where i am free to get on with SL the way i like it. And i figure that i will want to move to the new adult land. I agree that for me with 2048 it will be easy to move: the main obstacle will be some kind of outrageously inflated land price imposed on me because i am not a proper adult business and therefore in theory i don't *need* to move.

I also totally agree with your point that a real business like yours needs more than 9 days. 90 days would possibly be more reasonable.

K.

Well LL are trying to be the bouncer themselves in limiting physical access/creating an adult continent. That's obvious.

I don't agree with it, but I also wouldn't want MORE personal info in my profile. People can already see if I am online, if I have payment info on file, etc. I don't really want to be tagged and bagged more than I already am. Just on instinct/principle, it goes against the grain.

And people do use those things to bad ends sometimes aimed at others, whether giving them crap for (supposedly) being an alt (NPIOF) or seeing who's online etc. Yes I know you can uncheck preferences so only friends see you online. But then no one can teleport you except a friend and that can be inconvenient too.

Then you could also get into the issue Ceera of how far can any club hiring strangers on the 'net trust their "bouncers"? Or stores, with their staff. Etc. Anyone can be anyone online and people feel all these little token labels/rules will help, I don't think they do.

I agree; especially if linked to a payment-verified or age-verified account, that is the LEAST LL can do in way of appeasing some of this strife. If they are linked up, there is no anonymous-account issue, and people would actually have built in incentive to do this. But not if penalised with the 5-av rule.

LL's servers should be able to handle it...Heck, they are already (well sort of). I don't believe that avs are the cause of SL's problems, and I do think this incentive would actually cut down on superfluous 'griefer accounts' that are never used again, if anything.

Win/win, IMO.

I think that's the risk: that all those little 16s and 32s will get a few pr0n prims, notti-sounding parcel names and descriptions, and age-verified access restrictions.

I kinda doubt they'll spring for listing the parcels in Search, however, because L$30/wk is more than ten times the cost of tier for 16sq.m.

QFT. /me applauds.

Post more!

Hey, a question of mine was answered. Thanks Blondin.

To answer the "it depends": Well I haven't worked in or of course been a customer in either bordello but from what I understand it operates er, realistically too, how visually realistic, I don't know. Roleplay basically. Yes the violence is much more John Ford. No gore. Just shoot 'em ups and rare ones at that. Think old movies like OK Corral.

Another question. What about cages. Some sims that include slavery roleplay like a Roman times sim, or even Gorean sims, might have shops that cater to part of that by selling cages. A cage can be used in a totally PG way (think of the film Spartacus or Gladiator) to house a slave or it can be used in, er, other ways. Will there be definitions regarding items or shops such as this? Will it be animations-based, menu-based, or what? As far as deciding what fits adult criteria.

If a shop sells that and other things, will it either have to cease selling 'other things' or else move to Ursula? Is that basically the choice that will be offered to shop owners soon?

Dogboat, I think that the point that was being made was that being a US company, LL is governed under US law, and subject to US regulations.
In that respect, i'm afraid that LL's customers in the rest of the world are stuck with US law and regulations affecting their SL experience

-V-

One of the *many* reasons why segregating the "PG only" enthusiasts would be a better idea- the line between "pg" and "mature" is *already* defined and established, and the folks who are accepting of "mature" standards are used to them including so extreme stuff.

Also, *nobody* complains that "there's a bunch of *disney* stuff that I ca see from my land! I want it covered up *now*!" so it's an easier sell for the mixed use folks too.

Seriously, why shouldn't the people with the *problem* be part of the solution, rather than the folks that they have a problem *with* shouldering the whole thing?

-V-

i was accused of US bashing, so i wanted to clarify that wasn't the case, thats all, no big deal.

Is listing the parcel in search reqired for the land swap?
I have set up my first 1024sqm ready for a move to ursula, I also listed it in search, but is that actually neccessary?

If adfarmers start using 50 of their 16's To place out advertising to their other small plots as intimate booths complete with animations they have advertised the plots as public places and kept within the PG guidelines for advertising.

Would that not qualify them for a move?

It may even qualify the 50 ad plots if all set to the same group.

Also would they now want to give up the 16's and make the move?
I am guessing they still sell their parcels, they don't seem to be dropping prices and abandoning them so must be at least covering tier still.

how about this:

General: no sexualisation of avatars or clothing, sex, violence nor anything that is currently illegal practice in the majority of the english speaking world (i.e. america)

Mature: sale of, provision of or executing: non paid for missionary position sex, polyamoury (think utah), killing people cleanly with guns (think hollywood), drug use, economic and vanilla relationship slavery (think most places in the world).

Adult: sale of, provision of or executing: consensual non missionary position sex either free or paid for, visually consensual fetishes, non apparent consensual non violent slavery, fighting and killing people with other means. naked people on poles.

Extreme: sale of, provision of or executing: apparently non consensual sex, slavery, bigotry and violence.


I'm just joking and it's a clumsy attempt but comments?

We might be better off writing the damn policy ourselves after all., that's what self regulation is for.

But the process of evaluating what is or is not adult roleplay kind of reminds me of early Hollywood. Hayes code.

One foot on the floor is okay, is necessary if two adults are on a bed. Otherwise the scene is adult and is cut out of the film.

Married couples sleep in separate beds or it is adult. Note: Lucy and Ricky Ricardo's twin beds. Yet somehow magically they have a son. You cannot say the word 'pregnant' on tv even if she is about to pop.

Certainly no nudity and no swearing.

So I am wondering if Tombstone will be left alone, but it sounds like they might be asked to change the roleplay in bordellos to something like: Remain clothed, at least longjohns and corsets/bloomers; chat in IM only; do not go on a bed; no public swearing or suggestive talk.

If the outlaw gang captures anyone for ransom they can tie them up and brandish a pistol or even shoot them but like in an old black and white cowboy movie no blood and no sex and no swearing.

That's just an example, but is that kind of how it would be for all adult or semi adult roleplay sims? (Some other types of sims also have roleplay that can lead to capture or more, but are not their main focus at all.)

I'm not being facetious, I think this will all come down to literality and practical matters like actual lists of do and don'ts. I do not agree with it but it seems it is happening, so I am actually trying to offer some sensible POSITIVE to residents suggestions to make it less painful than just cutting the scenes out completely.

The way writers used to try to work around censorships and Hayes officials by offering a more pleasant alternative than the ones originally suggested. (See: "A Streetcar Named Desire" in which a broken mirror symbolised Blanche's rape; although this censorship-inspired symbolism did also lead to a lot of trite cliches: trains through tunnels and fireworks in the sky, anyone?) We can combat this with thoroughness and creativity - MAYBE. We are not given another option, the changes are coming; except to quit SL.

In which case the forum discussions while not changing the ruling or reality of the censorship can at least possibly mitigate the implementation (which is kind of what Lindens have said - help us find ways to best implement). So once their Rom is over (I can't help thinking of Romulons) can we all get to brass tacks? I mean really nailing down definitions and dos and don'ts for roleplay areas, and products in shops. If it has to be, then at least let it be clear and even as possible, so the creative user base can begin its response - adapt or die (leave SL).

Dogboat, this is the kind of thinking that makes nannying by the state of *all* sorts of things possible.

For example, I don't enjoy football, or see why anyone else should either. It seems purely insane for someone to be paid astronomical sums of money for running up and down a pitch occasionally kicking something(or someone). Why anyone should enjoy *play* it, let alone *watch* it is beyond me.
However, just because it is beyond *me* doesn't mean that it is beyond *you*, or anyone else. The argument that nobody should have a right that you don't happen to want or need to use is the very definition of "slippery slope". Which is why the UK law is a *bad* idea. it makes it that much easier to do the same thing with something *else* that a bunch of people don't think anyone needs to do. LIke read a book with dirty words in it, or look at a picture of someone without clothes on.

-V-

I'm not saying you exactly Kirsty.. and i agree that even if i DIDN'T own an adult business, I'd still want to be on an *anything* goes sim, VS rules/regulations. I'm not thinking that people of a like mind will be the problem. Those that simply want the freedom, by all rights should have it. I think the best way to handle that...Legit, known, full or 1/2 sim long-term business owners should have first shot at the land. We have NO CHOICE, from what it seems, if we wish to stay in business, but to pack up and move. After all known businesses are moved, LL should offer a chance for any current land owners that wish to swap to file a ticket, and then be allowed to move on a first come/first serve basis. Speaking for myself, and numerous other business owners i know.. we WANT good neighbors. Ones that we don't have to worry about protest signs, griefing the business, the ones that may not choose to do what we do, or even LIKE what we do... but respect the fact that as adults, we should all live and let live. Its hard to imagine that we have made it to 2009 and still face such gross intolerance in such an *enlightened* age.
and as far as 90 days... even 30 days is more feasible for a full sim. 90... that would be AWESOME... i'd settle for AT LEAST 30.
~Brie

You know I had typed out a very long lindens labs bashing. However, as I went through ready to post I read the reply by Clarissa Lowell at 11:53 AM. Pretty much, in it's entirety, I agree. We're all adults, so let's get down to business. We need definitive guidelines first and foremost. When will these be coming?

Not necessary. Along the last 4 weeks we did all the Rom work for the company and we've outlined the goal for the next 999 years: stop that farce!

But happy easter-eggs-hunting!

Hint: in most of all cases, the eggs are to find, where people concealed them before..., means: if you hided the colored eggs behind a specific bush in your garden in morning, you will find them exact behind the same bush in afternoon.

Normally I avoid to explain that to adult people, but in case of Linden teams and managers I thought it can help to come over the easter-holidays without trouble.

Yeah i think you are right there

Yes, I thought the same along the weeks. I started to build a relative long and a relative thick sculptie nose for my avatar, wich will start a small firework-particle-effect on touch.

In my rooms I will hang pictures of macro-shots of orchid - and rose-blossoms plus oysters and Phallus impudicus mushrooms

http://kamniski-vrh.net/gobe/images/phallus_impudicus.jpg

And I will use red and blue LEGO-toys, created as belt attachment, to symbolize the act...

While a child can be escorted in to an R rated movie, they still cannot get in alone. There is still age verification. The only difference is that the parent effectively can vouch for the kid, and even then if the kid came back alone later they would not be able to get in to another R rated movie or even the same movie unless their parent was with them again.

Online, there is no way to be certain of any escort being present. If a parent *does* wish to escort their child into SL, they could always do so by letting their kid watch them play or by letting their kid play an alt they set up while watching their kid play (Not sure either of those would be legal under the current legislation, mind you... there is no provision in the current child protection act that I know of that lets a child work as stripper, real or virtual, merely because a parent is supervising).

Ad for South Park, the Saddam scenes you mention are meant to portry Saddam as a villain. They are meant to portray him as 'worse then Satan, and the one *really* in charge of Hell. If you were paying attention to the series, Satan is portrayed as the abused partner, and he does try to escape the relationship at one point.

In other words the intent of those scenes is not particularly sexual nor glamourizing of that kind of abusive relationship. The funny thing is that you zero in on that part of the South Park rather than the many things Cartman gets away with because neither parents *nor* authorities take any responsibility. The whole reason that the kids do end up having to keep saving the day and advising everyone *including Satan* is precisely the kind of attitude you are representing.. that it is all someone else's problem. Like you, the parents in South Park pretend to take responsibility, but usually just rationalize their actions.

Saying it is the parent's responsibility is all very well and fine, but when a parent fails to take responsibility, it is the kid that pays for it. Not unlike in South Park.

Yup. I have been in the real estate business for nearly three years. People are like rainwater flowing down a mountain. They will fill every crack and crevice and exploit ANY opportunity to arbitrage. That is because the economy is like an ecosystem. Every time Linden Lab walks into the rainforest with a chainsaw, they alter the ecosystem in unexpected ways.

Sorry if I was being too cynical.. my cynicism on such matters is from a little different persepective than that of the rest of you, perhaps... seen a lot of entrepreneurs trying to argue in favour of loopholes that they firmly believe should be allowed.

If you put up reasonable precautions to limit the view and do not advertize your 'playground' I don't think you should be considered 'adult content.' And I did say that if people are camming in and then ARing, they are the ones who should be banned. Camming equates to voyeurism, and even though it is a virtual world is still offensive and likely violates the concept of right to privacy.

That is another issue too which, while I haven't ready every single post in here - I have read a vast majority of them - and I don't think it has been discussed. But...

There needs to be a clear and well defined policy in place for grey area decisions. There are many many many things in SL that are not inherently adult, but that turn adult when used in a certain way.

For example (to use the Tombstone example above) you might have a set of "stocks" in which to imprison criminals. Not adult - and quite common in any Old West town. But, if I go there with my girlfriend and break out my "spank" hud - suddenly it's a bondage toy.

Now, imagine I have an entire medieval dungeon. There's nothing in there that causes death (well, it could if you didn't feed them and left 'em chained to the wall, I suppose). It's just a bunch of stuff that "ties" the person up, or locks them in their cell. There is absolutely nothing that is inherently sexual or violent here. BUT... the people who tend to use these types of things do tend to do it because it provides some sort of sexual pleasure, arousal, whatever you want to call it. Thus, if someone comes through, they might very well be offended by it all because the two people using it (fully clothed, but in leather and spikes and chatting in IM only) are obviously deriving some sort of adult pleasure from the place.

So... this Dungeon now is suddenly a popular BDSM hangout (primarly because it's the only place on the grid that new people can find). What happens to the person who has created this roleplay area on a Mature sim? Do they get shut down instantly? Are they given a notice that "It's come to our attention that this is being used for Adult purposes - you need to remove it or relocate yourself within 1 week". or are the people who are there using the place given some sort of punishment? Does a person who has a place like this have to plaster their sim with warning signs saying, "No SEXUALLY ORIENTED ROLEPLAY!" Do they really have to spoil the illusion they have created by spamming their sim telling people that it's not for adults play? Wouldn't, in fact, the mere explanation of what is not acceptable on the sim be considered adult material? (That a stretch I realize, but... without something clear, I have to bring it up).

Then - take it a step back... If I make restraining equipment, slave collars, cuff systems, or anything like that... it's not inherently adult, but I know full well that a vast majority of the people who purchase it will be wanting to use it for adult purposes. Do I have to move to an adult sim? And if so, how can that not possibly affect my overall sales? There are certainly many people who have non-adult sims that purchase my restraint equipment for a non-sexual means.

I make an "Outfit Manager" that uses functions from the RLV (Restrained Life) viewer which allows a person to set up specific folders in their inventory and, with three clicks on their HUD, change avatar/outfit setups, strip naked, get dressed, and so on. It's probably the most handy tool I've ever seen for people who have many outfits and avatar setups that they like to swap in between. It's not at ALL sexual in nature, but because it requires the RLV platform in order to work, the people who use the LBOM system are almost all using it in conjunction with adult roleplay. (There is also going to be a plugin available soon where someone else can access it and change your clothes, strip you, and so on - also not adult, but you know it will be used for that!) So, is this adult? Or mature? If it's mature, but then the morality police decide differently - what happens to me? And my shop that sells it? Do I have time to change over?

Near as I can tell - the answer now seems to be "if in doubt, go the safe route and call it adult." But, and believe me - if you hang out at my shop and read profiles for an hour - there is very little out there that ISN'T a sexual turn on for some people in some scenario or another. There are going to be TONS of things that fall into this "Hmmm, I better not risk it!" category. Which means that your Ursula Continent is going to be a lot more populated than you think it is going to be. It's also going to take a lot of the great content that isn't inherently adult and pull it off the main grid, too.

We make horse jumps where the rails drop when the horse hits it, the rails fall. We also make one preset course for fetish ponygirls - but ANY of the jumps can be used for that. So, to be safe, I should probably take the entire line off the main grid and mark it as adult. Then, of course, no one will ever find the products - so I might as well discontinue the line.

Virtually every furnished prefab house comes with one of those basic Multi-Love-Pose beds in it. That gets used for sex. Poof - all the great furnished prefab homes vanish from the grid. Better not risk it.

So, to repeat the question - since I guess it got lost in examples: "What is the process when something that is grey/undetermined such as a set of stocks is deemed to be adult even though it might not have been the intent of the designer at the time?" Will they have time to move smoothly? Will the get shut down? What about people who have products that are both adult and not adult - do they really have to totally isolate the stuff and develop a whole new brand?

People being asked for ID in a bar are not being accused of being sexual offenders. Kids being kept out of bars/strip joints/adult movies are not being accused of being sexual offenders either.

Age restrictions are to keep kids out, not to find sexual predators...

The only clear and objective definition of 'adult' throughout most of the world is legal age, usually 18+

All other definitions of 'adult' are subjective, arbitrary and problematic.

Good luck.