Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Answers to Questions

For me SL is not a game by itself, so probably we have very different views about it.



Yes, exactly that. Why is that so difficult?

I am a furry in SL. Although I do like adult stuff from time to time I don't run around with a flag or title that says "yay I yiffed people". As an adult I know how to behave according to my environment and not force kink down the throat of others who might not want to hear about it.

If all of your SL is made of sex and nothing else (that would be really sad because there is so much more), then you can stay in Ursula/mature sims.



Hmm. Why would someone say something like that in a casual conversation? Unless I have an intimate interest in Bob, I don't give a dam about his sexual preference. I don't discriminate people by what kind of sex they like. I treat everyone the same. The private life of others is just not that interesting to me, neither in SL nor in RL.

That does not mean dress codes are always unreasonable, or that freedom of expression should be unlimited.

Should people be allowed to wear slanderous statements on t-shrits, for example? Or dress or act literally how they please no matter how annoying?

And none of the homosexual people I have met have ever introduced themselves by gender preference.. which should not be surprising in that none of the heterosexual people I have met have felt the need to do the same.

If they have been interested in more than just casual conversation then the conversation goes that way, but they do not open with it any more than people go around in public asking others 'do you want to have sex' without expecting to be slapped or at least shunned.

And for that matter, how is being gay 'adult content?'

Honestly I'm surprised at myself for that mistake. I don't really consider it much of a game myself. At least that's the point I was making some pages back. *^_^*;;



Public intolerance... especially from a fur, considering all the predjudice they get, is an ugly thing. You might wanna do something about that. You come off as pretty bigoted and segregationist there. What happens if they decide furs are adult content too and ship you off in the traincars along with the rest of us perverts? Does it not become okay then?

Actually, as far as my SL experience goes, I tend more toward the sci-fi end of things. Nothing BUT adult content would be pretty boring, I quite agree. But I've got things in my SL profile that pertain to my sexuality that I don't feel I should be banned from PG-land for. That I would feel decidedly discriminated against if it became an issue.



The point wasn't that Bob would say that in casual conversation. But that's likely how bob's going to identify himself. Just like someone else might say, "I'm straight." or "I'm bi." or even, "I'm kinky." They don't say "I behave in a hetero/bi/homosexual manner. They don't say "I engage in kinky activity. they say the former. Not the latter.

It is part and parcel of their identity, and as much an extension of themselves as your car is of you when you drive it. If you're in an accident, you say, "That guy hit me!" not, "That guy hit my car!" Your speech really gives you away when it comes to extensions of yourself.

Missing the point. (see above post) I wouldn't say that being gay IS adult content. But if open displays of gay or lesbian affection in public, or a shirt with a double male or female symbol on it, or something in someone's profile is openly sexual can get you shipped off to pornsylvania, then where does it stop? It is a decision based on their behaviour, sure. But that behaviour was based in sexual identity.

Now I'm not talking about someone totally dropping a double poseball and making the beast with two backs in the middle of a mall somewhere. But what is acceptable? Dancing on a dual dance poseball in a club together? Hugging in public? Holding hands? Yes the latter examples are legal in RL whereas the former decidedly isn't. But you get complaints about the latter all the time from people offended by homosexuality. Monalisa Robbiani's previous reply is a great example of that. People that may think it's okay for you to be gay... just not around them.

You question whether slanderous slogans and obnoxious behaviour should be allowed, no matter how annoying. The problem here is that your definition of slanderous and obnxious, as well as anyone's, is a relative thing. One person's anti-bush activism is another's slander. One person's pink triangle is another's porn. Another person's holy symbols are yet another person's hate speech or symbols of evil. You see how this can get out of control once everyone who feels the least bit offended starts running off to Momma Linden to tattle about the thing that annoyed them or hurt their feelings? Once the bigots start chiming in with their opinions too, people are going to start getting shipped for increasingly puerile and marginalizing reasons.

And this is adults we're talking about here. People who are supposed to be mature enough to be able to deal with other adults without running off to a parent, guardian, or admin to use as a cudgel to enforce their beliefs on others. What happens if the Lindens let children into the game. The same kids you see spouting hate speech and all manner of offensive behaviour? The adults with that precious snowflake sensitivity are going to be slaughtered emotionally by these kids.

Yiff is indeed adult content, and I have no problem being classified as adult when engaging in that activity. Avatars as such are neither adult nor PG, as stated several times by several Lindens here (ignoring the tried ad hominem and the slightly hinted Godwin traincars in your post - not going to that level of discussion).



I can't imagine a casual SL or RL situation where any of those things would be of interest to anyone. I don't discuss my sexual preferences with random people. Unless we talk about an adult environment of course. There we discuss them with random people



We identify ourselves by many many things. Age, language, interests, profession, personal beliefs, gender, political affiliation, favorite movies, cars we drive, food we like... Not all the time all of those things are of interest, sometimes they might not even be appropriate. That doesn't mean I discriminate against anyone nor am I a "bigot".

Different places demand different behavior.

Hey odd question I wanted to run by the people who are thinking about this most actively:

Do you think this is simply an extension of LL's move to zone mainland into specific areas?

And if so do you think that eventually it will reach to commerical vs residential zones? and/or human vs furry zones?

Just curious as to what ya'll think.

If by mainland we mean the global 3D World that SL is the forerunner of then yes. Providers using LL-provided 3D World servers that connect to the LL-OGP enabled 3D World will theme their offerings and we will be able to choose those places in the LL-OGP 3D World that suit our needs.

Pretty sure that although the definition of marriage is debated and legislated, simply being gay or showing the same level of affection that a heterosexual couple can show in public is not only not 'adult content' but might be constitutionally protected (it would be here in Canada).

That would include a bi-gendered gender symbol, which could just mean 'unisex' anyway, and would not automatically refer to anyone's gender. None of those things are contrary to any RL dress code or other code of conduct (other than perhaps in certain churches), so why would they be any different in SL?

People get offended by a lot of things that have nothing to do with adult vs PG or G. That does not mean that everything anyone gets offended at is 'adult.'

Yes. An adults only area, and an adult & teen area.

Maybe. Maybe not. It is common practice on many private islands though.



There are many human-only "zones" (mostly RP areas where furries would not fit the storyline) but I don't know of any furry-only zones. What would be the point of such zoning anyway?

You start to annoy me by constantly accusing me of things I never said.

I am going to rephrase what I said, once more, so you will understand, hopefully. Bear in mind that this is not my first language, so I apologize for any misunderstandings that might cause.

Being gay (or insert any other sexual preference) isn't adult or PG or mature per se. Behavior is. A gay person can be as "adult" or "PG" as a straight person. It just depends on what they *do.*

Was that clear enough now?

That's been my feeling too, for quite a while - either that, or in time, Ursula will become undistinguishably Adult/Mature, while the existing mainland will become PG only. As half-baked as the relocation is (for all the reasons expressed in this thread), there is a certain logic considering the many extraordinary builds on the mainland. Still doesn't make me a fan of the idea

1 we need 3 classes not 2: G/PG "mature" and Adult Only

2 part of the filter list needs to be published with the label "anything on this list IS Adult Only but additional keywords may be considered Adult"

3 on this subject there should be a 3 linden rule before you AR/ban/relocate a person/parcel
3 lindens should look at the situation 1 of these lindens should be an older linden

4 POST THE RULES AND FOLLOW THEM YOURSELVES any AR/Ban should cite chapter and verse

This is a very good idea, and ideally which 3 it is should rotate rather than always being the same 3.

My main problem with this beside the general censorship issues is:

I do NOT believe that it will be "Verified = Adult Interested in so called Adult activities"

Instead --> Verified Will NOT equal Adult!


What will happen is:

Verified will equal;
1) adults who have verified to get at such content
2) kids who have stolen or faked such info needed to verify to get at it
3) those who had paid accounts for other reasons and still do NOT wan to see adult stuff
4) those who have paid account and also happen to be interested in adult stuff
5) those who wish to verify on principle, Declare they are adult or support verification.

Not Verified will equal:
1) those unwilling to verify for other reasons {there are several reasons at least}
2) those unable to verify for some technical or legal reason.
3) underage who are willing to lie to get in but to stupid to get past verification
4) those who are uninterested in adult stuff and have no other reason to verify
5) those who strongly object to verification on principle


What this will accomplish is separate the many Actual Adults who fall in to the wrong category from the ADULT content they are interested in. There by hurting their experience and the providers of such content and incidentally SL economy as a whole.


Additionally:
It has been repeatedly stated that this will not keep minors away form such content if they are smart enough to get in they are smart enough to verify.

There also appears to be no way to opt out of being interested in adult content and still be a verified supposedly over 18 account. So those Verified for other reasons will appear to be into ADULT stuff and might possibly end up accidentally seeing it. OH THE HORROR! (this also has multiple implications which I won't get into)


I do NOT want to keep Unverified OFF My Property!
This WILL Eliminate many "ACTUAL ADULT" Customers who want To Be There!
But Will Also NOT keep out minors or necessarily those who maybe offended.
Verified Will NOT equal Adult! !!!!!!!
This WILL adversely effect many SL business and their customers!

I personally believe that more Adults will be separated from Adult Content then will have access to it. (At least until those without access to it decide to simply leave) 2 to 4% is a ridiculous unrealistic figure!

The current plans will do nothing but inconvenience a lot of people and hurt SL as a whole.



Please note: My own place is not a major location in SL, but it is mine. The primary ADULT content is only accessible by TP pad. And I have other more general content there, separate locations won't exactly help either set of content. I am however more concerned over the over all impact then what will happen with own my place.

Sigh, but kids willing to commit theft or fraud to get in are going to be fewer than those willing to simply lie about their age. Also, kids willing to commit felonies are occasionally considered adult by society anyway.

Those who will be verified but do not want to see adult stuff will not have to go see adult stuff as it will be on a separate continent and thus flagged as such.



And yet similar age restrictions exist all over the place in RL, yet the RL economy goes on. There are RL vendors who would be quite willing to offer adult services to minors, or at least not have to worry about checking id, yet the restrictions remain.



Saying 'yes you are 18+' is not the same as stealing or forging 18+ identity info. The first is likely not even a misdemenor, the latter is a felony, and in these days of identity theft, taken seriously indeed when someone is charged, even a minor.



Hello? That is the whole purpose of Ursula.. moving it all to another continent so you cannot accidentally simply fly into the middle of it.



There is a lot of room between all and nothing, you know. Something does not need to be 100% effective to be useful.

You're missing a whole class of kids who will say "hey mom, can I get US$3 so I can play this game?" while they're on the adult grid and get themselves 'verified.'

/me grows tired of finding new ways that this whole plan will not work..

Hellloooo!
Think you missed the point of my post.
But since you seem focused on it.
Why can't they not go to place now!
Ever hear of Fences etc. This is too much!
Remember, Something does not need to be 100% effective to be useful.
You totally missed the point.
How will verification separate out the right people?

I am concerned about the verification flagging as a whole,
not the casual flying intruder who is offended,
which has been cover in plenty of detail.
Most people travel mainly by TP.
Your points are totally beside the point to the one I am making.
Is that deliberate? Or you just don't get it?

PS. There is also is a lot of room between 100% and 2 to 4%

Yeah. I'm annoyed too. Let's chalk it up to miscommunication and forget the whole damn thing. I dislike arguing with people in the internet... what happened to the level-headed person I used to be? Ugh!

Verification will sort out the people it is most important to sort out, the underaged other than those willing to commit fraud (the minority).

And 'Mom can I have $3 to play this game' still translates into 'Mom, can I charge things against your credit card.' At least the mom has to make a conscious decision to hand over the card, in which case the mom's negligence is stronger than if the kid just said yes to being 18+ without the mom knowing.

Actually the more common situation would be the kid using their own credit card.

Personally I dislike the PIOF option being in the mix, and do have trouble justifying it being there. Note I have not said anything about the LL's actual verification scheme being useful, merely that a working verification scheme has merit.

I have also said that we should be concentrating on working towards a working screening process instead of trying to argue against any screening process.

And for the record, I beleive that LL is obligated to do its best to facilitate moves, and cannot just say here is your new land and some help files, go to it.

Holy mixed statistics batman...

The 100% issue was a reference to screening on whatever gets flagged adult. The 2-4% refers to LL's estimate of how much of the content will be flagged adult. They are completely different stats.

LL has provided conflicting information on where the 2-4% is derived from. In theory, a main purpose of this thread was to discuss what the definition of adult should be and why, but the majority of discussion has been people digging up any arguement they can think of, no matter how far fetched, to say why this should not be done at all.

And then people wonder why threads like this get shut down.

Not everyone has been like that.. there has been some constructive discussion and some legitimate criticism, but it gets buried amidst all the naysaying.

/me missed that.. Got a pointer where they gave ANY detail on where the 2-4% numbers came from? Aside from where they say "careful research" - that just doesn't count.

There I think you got a least part of the point.
100% , 2 to 4%?

What I wan to know is what % of actual interested adults will get blocked form such content. Or customers who wont be offended but might buy something else.

The rest is just a break down on how verify won't do that.
That is the issue I am most concerned with at least here.
It also effects existing adult island businesses,
which of course wont be moving to the adult continent
This is not just a mainland issue only!

Not that I wan to move either.


Yes and people do wonder about why these threads get shut done.
Maybe out of context quotes to make different point?


--edit--
Never mind maybe some people got the point. I hope.
If not reread it in the context of what verify will do, which is what I am referring too.

Frankly, Blondin is either inexperienced at this, or has not been given enough of a time budget to do his job properly, or both.

He should be the one weeding out the off topic posts, and setting up new threads for them where neccessary. It would likely have been wise of him even to set up a ranting thread of some sort, with a disclaimer at the start that he will read the thread, but that it has been decided this *will* happen, so people should not be expecting to change minds in that regard.

As for how many potential consumers will be kept out from any given business, that would be really difficult to determine in advance and would depend in part on the definition of adult content, which does not seem be being discussed here.

My own personal definition on that is 'anything that is normally age restricted in RL.' Most such restrictions are context based and common sense. One of the other problems in this thread is people trying to play word games to trap the lindens, such as saying they will just declare their adult whatever a nude beach. In RL though, I doubt there is any formal definition of a nude beach, and real nude beaches are just that, not sex playgrounds or strip bars.

Once 15 year old Johnny is verified using his dad's info, or even just using his dad's already verified alt account, how then does Linden Labs handle verifying that Johnny is underage and just using dad's alt, or using dad's info for that matter? What do they require at that point from Dad to prove that he is the only person using his computer?

I have a feeling the scenario above happens or will be happening quite often because the Teen Grid is currently only available to teens within the U.S. To me, the current Beta Age-Verification seems pointless. Kind of like showing a card at the door to a bar and the bouncer glancing briefly and waving you on in. Until there is a better way to verify the person behind the computer is actually the adult, it is just unrealistic to think it can be enforced.

If there was a better way to assure everyone visiting an adult website was over 18, then I'm positive they would have implemented more than the "Click yes if you are 18, or give us your date of birth to enter our site."

By the way, I do not feel I should have to question if I should verify that I'm well over 18, and compromise my identity information, just so a handful of kids can be spared the sight of some nipples or pee wees. If I could be assured that no child would ever be able to access the Adult Grid, I might actually risk Age-Verification.