Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Answers to Questions

The laws in Canada are similar, but they were written when the concept was new, but for a long time they were not enforced. They may have been amended or strengthened in recent years though. I have not seen SINs asked for in terms of ID. I am seeing driver's licence numbers asked for more often.

If it was illegal to give out a driver's licence number, then reporting traffic accidents would need an entirely different procedure....

This has been answered several times, pretty definitively - Yes, there will be a land swap at no charge. There will be a period of time where you own both chunks of the land, during which you will move the content from the existing mainland to the new area. You will not be charged extra tier for this.

Again, this has been answered several times in the fora - no, nothing in a private home will have to move.

They have been vague and don't have a clear published definition yet. THat needs to come before any changes are made.

The "when" they have said June timeframe, if I recall correctly. As for the why.... the bottom line answer is that this is how LL want their world to progress.

It's an ad slogan, nothing more.

I think that if they can make it work as well or better than SL, it will be a very good thing to have some competition out there. One of the big issues right now is that LL are the only game in town and that if you don't like what LL are doing, you don't have any place else to go.

That means you have considerable creative control. If it was required to be completely true, SL could not exist, since I have no trouble imagining you and everyone else in game handing all lindens (and all RL dollars you spend on anything in game) directly over to me, rather than to LL or anyone else

Maybe this is what they want. They don't want us any longer. Mitch K.spoke much in this direction, last year in August. We Hobos can go, the suits comming in, is what they hope.

Until that they try to make some further money from us, but then... in 1-2 years... the new continent will go in Atlantis-mode, if we are then not longer needed.

But while you said nations..., LL avoided to open floodgates. So far. I receive signs, that the smell reached the Scandinavians, the Germans, the French, and the Brazilians now... - about others I don't know. We few people needed 3 weeks to realize the dimension of the issue and to sort out all possible aspects, but they start now too and yes, the butterflies...

2-4-8-16-32-64-128, you know...like this forum here and some blogs and websites and the ingame group(s).

I cannot remember, where I have read it. It was under a blog entry (not in a forum) but LL mumbled something, they would also have a floodgate-strategy, in case....

I cannot believe that, because: if a flood starts, it will be a big one. Tsunami, I think (hope, wish). And LL has no Tsunami-protection. Too weak. They live from cocooning. But they have no plan B, I think. They have only Blondin. This is not an army. Hahahaha.

They are experts in to make much wind with waving a short shirt, but in this case the shirt could be too short.

I hope not ours, hahahaha.

but close. if you read my further posts you would have seen that when I looked at my march figures they accounted for just under 20% of my income inworld and when I looked at xsl they accounted for only 0.05% of my march income from XSL. So overall they probably account for something like 10% of my income.

The question arises of course where they get their money. If it comes through another account then they will still be able to buy transfer/giftable items and run the alt if they choose to. or they may chose to verify if they wish to maintain the lifestyle without having to fire up the money account too frequently.

But my customer base is probably completely different to those who have a club with shopping attached. Looking at the info that Lord Sullivan provided for his beloved's shop, the npiof make up a larger proportion of sales, but still not the 40%.

What was obvious to me was these people are not blank alts. apart from a couple they all had full meaningful second life profiles.. much more interesting than mine in fact lol

In the end we don't know what these people will do - simply because it's possible a lot of them don't know about it. I have a lot of people who have only European or Asian languages in their profiles which means it is possible they're still oblivious.

Baudrillard does not deny that - his is a philosophical argument centred on the simulacrum. Baudrillard argues that a simulacrum becomes its own reality in hyperreality, not least because humans have difficulty maintaining a distinction between the 'real' and the representation of the 'real'. There's a decent translation of his discourse on the Disneyworld Company here: <http://www.egs.edu/faculty/baudrillard/baudrillard-disneyworld-company.html> Wikipedia's entry on hyperreality isn't bad, and includes a summary of hyperreality versus virtual reality.

So you're playing a war game where you have bought a castle and someone invades that - you feel you have the right to sue them, or the game maker in RL because of that? As I said before. I think you would be laughed out of any court.

You're being specious again, and your comparison is quite flawed. But let's credit you with good intentions and pursue the point anyway. If it were in fact a game, where I bought a pre-existing game asset with full knowledge that in terms of how the game is played, said castle were subject to invasion by someone, I would have no problem with that.

However, If I bought, or in this case drew up the plans for, built and textured my own castle, under the impression that I would be allowed to behave, decorate, or use it as I liked on property I also paid the fees for the use of in a world where those assets have a real and tangible monetary value, I would absolutely have a problem if the people that ran said game changed the agreement without consulting me, invaded that castle, called me a pervert and moved me to the back of beyond, or destroyed it by returning it in pieces to my inventory. Impacting my income negatively in the process by relocating my vendors to a place that has now become disagreeable to access due to lag issues.



Neither should they toss aside the implied promise of the product they offered. Their marketing slogan is not law, but it could in fact be considered to be the offering of a contract to the consumer in the form of a verbal or communicated agreement. Unless it very specifically says somewhere in the TOS that no inferences of offers or contracts may be implied by the website, viewer, or Linden Labs as regarding the performance of the product or the definitions thereof. (If they did put that in there, I imagine it's buried a lot deeper than paragraph 5.3. And likely that would have no lawful validity were it pursued in court.)



A TOS, if it offers something inherently unlawful, or enforces a policy that is a breach of faith is essentially a breach of contract by the offering company and therefore invalid. The contradictions in Linden Labs' handling of adult or mature materials alone are very likely enough to invalidate the TOS from their end. I'm not arguing that they don't own the right to maniuplate my IP as they see fit in world. They have a business to run as well. However, when it gets into sexually discriminatory business practices, again they're running afoul of the law.

They can say they can do it in a TOS all they like, that doesn't make it legal. It just means they said it and I clicked a button that said I agreed with their assertation. Does it say that since I agreed with that, I agree to give up all right to legal redress of grievances of any sort whatsoever? Or that I gave up any expectation of how the product should perform, or how said product is adminstrated?

In effect, have I agreed to something that boils down to, "Here's a product. Invest your time and money into it. We make no promises whatsoever as to whether it works. We make no promises as to HOW it works. We reserve the right to change the rules on you any way we see fit. And even though everything you have is yours, it's ours too. And by the way, our intention, once we have you in the fold IS to change the rules on you, as well as discriminate against you sexually."



You're correct. I would not in my right mind, or in posession of the fact of their intentions (whatever their secret criterion for 'improvement' may be) have signed or agreed to that TOS. I am in fact claiming that the TOS holds no weight as the company itself is pursuing a breach of faith in its intentions, and a breach of contract in its redefinition of mature and adult materials.

And if in fact that TOS renders us powerless and absent of legal recourse or redress, then other avenues must be pursued. As in the degradation of their ability to do business effectively, the same way they are degrading MY ability to do business effectively. If I am going to be insulted and discriminated against 'by the book' because I deal in mature and adult material, the you're darn straight that Linden Labs should be discriminated against by Paypal for violating THEIR Terms of Service agreement. Essentially what's good for the user's good for the provider as far as I'm concerned.

If they're going to quote Linden Labs' TOS at me for their own aims, we can certainly quote Paypal's TOS back at them. One that holds a lot more weight for their consideration than say... complaining about it on a message board. ^_^;;; <-- (Is guilty.)

In terms of looking after inworld business this proposal is an epic fail by Linden Lab. In terms of looking after the inworld economy this proposal is an epic fail by Linden Lab, get Catherine Linden onboard, she's a marketing person, this proposal needs to be sold to people.

Reading Jean's article, there is a lot of raving about the unreality of Disney (gee, it is entertainment and escapism, go figure it is not real) and somehow relating that to the Gulf War (impliing that the Gulf War was similarly fictional).

The evidence of some sort of Disney 'hyperpower' is that various people, including important people, partook of said entertainment facilities, and some how concludes from that (among other things) that 'There is no reason why Disney would not take over the human genome.'

Frankly I think Jean wrote that in a state of hyperreality, likely (but not neccessarily) drug induced.

Lol given the opening paragraph it comes across as "Jean worked or lived in the Lorraine region. Smurfland should have been a success but failed, but disney succeeded. Therefore Disney must be all powerful.'

At any rate it certainly does not come across as 'Disney is only in the business of making money, no more no less, lol.

And last I checked it was the Walt Disney Corporation, not 'Disneyworld Company'

The reality is that the ToS cannot abridge consumer rights. Consumer rights are not as absolute as you think they are either. I am not entirely sure about California rights specificly, but rules on commercial leases are not the same as those on residential leases. Residential you usually have a slew of rights, but in SL, you are month to month, and that is only if you are paying tier.

Much as it may feel to you otherwise, you do not *really* live in SL. As such, they likely can terminate or modify your lease at will, given you have a similar right to back out whenever you wish without penalty.

As for specific virtual property, the term I suspect you are looking for is 'fair use.' You have the right to enjoy the property as property, and if they restrict it too much, it could be considered a breach of contract. However fair use only applies to 'fair' use. If your use can be shown to be unreasonable, harmful, or 'unfair' in some way, then it does not apply. Griefing would be an example of 'unfair use.'

Given that age restricting adult property is common practice RL, including requiring proof of age, it is really hard to argue that there is any breach of 'fair use.'

Also, a contract cannot force someone to breach the law. Even if you had a contract that specificly said you could use property in a specific way, if that way was or became illegal, you could not force LL to allow you to breach the law. You might be able to get damages from them, since they would be unable to fulfil the contract, but you could not get the courts to force them to break the law to fulfil the contract.

Also, if you have not paid anything to LL.. if you are not a land owner, and have just used their freely provided service via a basic account and sold your goods through others in world, you may have no case either, since you have not really given LL anything in return for their services. One sided contracts or gifts are not enforcable as contracts.

Again, I do not know California consumer law specificly, but what I have typed above is pretty consistant conceptually in many North American jurisdictions, at least as I understand it.

Note though that I am not a lawyer let alone an expert in the field. Consult a lawyer if you want to be sure.

No, Disneyland is also a symbol. It has the ice-cold money function, like SL, (but also the self-hypnotic function), like SL - that the rest of the country were not Disneyland. There is also Hollywoodland and a never ending weapon-fairy and an explosion-cult, even to see in every second Hollywood film, to show the world that the USA is able to give armed instructions (euphemism for: war) to others, if needed. Sometimes with full right, sometimes not.

And the skyscrapers speaking much too. Land is big, wide, endless. But it builds high, instead of flat...

Room is enough there, so why build high?

It shows to the world, that it has something in mind (I hope goodies and healthier Burgers than so far, hehehe) and that it prefers to have overview, for reasons. And if it is only the plan, expressed by these symbols, to move slowly from a nations puberty into being mature, oh, well, adult...in new term.

This will need some more Generations. USA is young Playful. Muscles. A grin. In good mood easy going, in bad mood like LL actualy. All that.

This calms down with age. Look at Europe. Sleepy, relaxed, moderate, tired of trouble.

We have all through. Thousands of small and big wars. Any philosophy and technics. Social developements. 2 major systems, like communism, capitalism and a smooth variante of capitalism. Workers movement, womens movement, 1968 students-revolte, whatever.

Symbols are sleepy now and not longer needed here, we laugh about them. Only some old cathedrals, more for tourists, than for their former functions as churchs, symbols, and signs on horizon, to assure some farmers around that there is a "power".

So: we have had our amusement, some 2500 years long, or so. You are fresh and carefree, but: cars go now smaller, the consume greener and the new president is a smart one. Intelligence is back after Bush...

I have hope But Baudrillard was right Philosophical seen. Trust me, I studied that subject.

K, was off topic. Sorry.

Lol, no worries. And I do believe you may really believe all that, but to borrow from an earlier icon, 'there are more things in heaven and earth, Horario, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.'

I think that my comparison is less flawed than those that have been routinely comparing LL's actions to those of the nazis and quoting the United Nations.... this IS an online entertainment product, some call it a game. While I agree that it's not an exact parallel with what I quoted, I think it's hard to find something closer....

How exceedingly magnanimous of you....

I am no lawyer, nor do I play one on the Interwebs, but I think it would be considered on sounder legal footing that trying to sue the company based on an ad slogan...


Right - you agreed with what they wrote, which I quoted above. Now you are turning around and saying that although you agreed with it, it somehow doesn't apply to you?

Yes, that is exactly what you and every resident agreed to. It was your choice whether to invest, and how much.


OK, that is your opinion. I look forward to seeing the details of the lawsuit that you file. I hope the result will cover your legal costs...

I worked for the mouse for 10 years. Disney is a for profit empire nothing more nothing less. It is and will remain all about the money period. Disney is one of the most impressive empires ever. It's reach into the psyche of the planet's populace is remarkable. There isn't a horrible massive natural disaster that won't have images of people wearing Disney images on shirts because Disney keeps a stock ready to deliver to maximize commercial exposure opportunities. Take a trip on Disney Cruise Line sometime and look at the attention to detail.

But they took away Mr. Toad's Wild Ride so they are the essence of evil.

FYI the only super cool jobs are in Imagineering. All the rest of the jobs have military dress and conduct standards. BTW Second Life is pretty minuscule compared to the Disney Enterprise IT wise. But far and away more cool. Disney is pedaling it's metaverse tricycle as fast as it can go to try to catch up though.

LL best keep a wary eye on the mouse.

Ooh, bad choice of quote, I'm afraid - Hamlet was berating Horatio for the narrowness of his thinking (probably a reference to Protestant Humanism) - he was suggesting precisely the opposite, namely that Horatio's thinking could not encompass the idea of ghosts or anything that he, Horatio, might consider irrational. Hamlet might well have been able to follow Baudrillard's abstract thinking, whereas it would have been well out of Horatio's reach.

This one has been answered. Yes, you will be given the same area.

Thanks. It is nice to know some questions have been answered. Hopefully, there will be some kind of announcement letting adult merchants know when the land is available. Also hopefully they won't put it up for sale. (Land bots... *shudders* Always with the land bots.)

But the most serious question to date is what is adult and what's not? Because I have friends who sell skins that would be considered adult (hair, nips, etc) or would these fall under mature?

Many answers, but few and far between. Also, I'd love to know what prompted this. Because I've read through just about everything and it still looks to me like it was a whim, because someone saw a peenie somewhere. *laughs*

Maybe. Who knows. But probably in three years the Metaverse has grown into something much bigger than we can imagine now.

Wasn't it? And normally I'm such a nice person too...



We agreed to that in good faith under the impression of the grid and environment being administrated without discriminatory practices, censorship or otherwise undue interference in our own business practices. They have, in effect renegotiated the contract without consulting us, and gone in a different administrative direction than we thought we were agreeing to.

Were this a game with no chance of monetary loss or loss of otherwise billable hours when I thought I was working at a business, then I'd agree that they have every right to change the rules of the GAME without notice or negotiation. As such, it's not just a game. The billable hours I spent as a graphic artist on in-world projects and the lindens I earned there are a tangible asset. And any impact on that time and investment, and the investments of many others to the tune of thousands of dollars for some, takes it out of the realm of small claims and rule changes, and into the realm of big league discrimination and class action.



I appreciate your support. I've a feeling that if it goes into class action, the Lindens will be paying our legal fees along with any punative damages the judge wishes to confer.

Fingers crossed

If Phillip would had a game in mind, he would had created a thing like "The Settlers" from Bluebyte/Ubisoft.

It looks only like a game, because also here running some settlers around like mad, creating strange things. But they are not KI driven. Our figures are IQ driven and they interact in any meaning, as humans and art in one.

This is the difference.

For that reason it is correct to point on LL and to tell them, that they have to have some human basics in mind and to behave, while they act (this is so seen our TOC - terms of customers), otherwise the company is in danger, to be seen as totalitar and hmmm ( I say it not, it begins with c...), even in any meaning. They did kind of technical society-tools building and we did the social thing, not they, we, it is our baby, we took that one prim in millions of copies and made it a global village, metropole and world - . This to touch needs some sensibility. If they like that or not, but they have to. Only rolling over us like a train, is not possible and will not work. If the lab wants full control over maybe millions of ppl from hundreds of nations, then it will be better LL starts to construct a simple KI game, with no IQ involved.

We do try here something, for reasons, but sooooooo much important is the company itself for us not, if it comes hard on hard. Drug, yes, addicted, yes, but they should not overstretch this idea. Could be an error to hope on our "being addicted" too much.

Additional we are creative: very...

The forum shows that. Most people are angry on them up to under the roots of the hair. Trouble is in the air. Friendship is over. Not our mistake. LL cutted the last string first. They are, so to speak, not longer on our friendslist. And Mark found no connection to us. And if we like, we mute and dry them out. Monetary. It is not too diff. There is also a web and a chance to explain to noobs how this company is ticking in background and to warn them. So: their choice. Next weeks will show, wich IQ side is stronger. Maybe theirs, maybe ours. Done is so far nothing. Maybe Ursula will stay an endless empty ghost construct. We will see. Some growing groups are formatted, some other language groups will company them additional. Some ideas in developement. And we have time..., even when U. is established, the rules, the viewer, is any sort of protest and resistance further possible, Nothing is engraved in stone. History shows that exemplaric. Think on the Berlin Wall. Gone. Hehehe

Maybe that's why mere nudity in game on places like Nude Beaches will be considered PG. Classifying the sale of skins, which inherently must have pictures of the nude skin in question in the vendor, or nude people trying them on, would be a HUGE blow to business in-world. If thusly classified, then suddenly it becomes easy to tell who's underage and who at least, is registered as above 18. The underage folk will be the ones wearing Noob/Freebie Skins. ^_^!! (At least the ones that don't have a copy of DAZ3d's Texture Convertor program with the Second Life plugin.) The underaged folk... or the non-registered ones that can't get to Pornsylvania wouldn't be able to go to any place selling skins if they were banished there with the rest of us dregs of the grid. (BAHAHAHA!!)

Blondin: How would anyone there think this would improve how everyone in SL views LL? A *very* dangerous precedent is being set: anyone who falls into disfavour with LL can lose their land and be forced to move elsewhere. How is alienating your entire customer base by decreasing their trust during an economic downturn good business sense?

On that basis I agree with you! That was one of the most underrated rides in the park <mourns extra lots!>

I know precisely the context. I was deliberately turning it around. There are people who believe everything is some sort of complex conspiracy, but that is not all there is to the world. Some things are very very simple and they are 'in heaven and earth' too.

It is important to keep track of both worlds, abstract and concrete, complex and simple, and not treat the world as if it is all merely physical nor entirely metaphysical.

I can understand the concept of Disney having a greater meaning than the company goals, but the implications of the article were that that greater meaning was a conscious goal of Disney, that among other things they were going to 'tame' 42nd st.

The reality though is that Disney affiliates produce mature content. Disneyland is for the kids. The stuff aimed at adults is aimed at adults, and the all ages stuff has something for all ages (Pixar before they split off). Miramax, a Disney affiliate has released pictures such as Exotica (excellent film, btw), Pulp Fiction, Trainspotting, Hellraiser: Bloodline and Inferno, and Kill Bill, among other R rated movies, none of which are 'Disnified.'

So Disney may stand for a friendly family image, but also for drug culture (Pulp fiction, Trainspotting), Killing your way in graphic fashion on the way to revenge against an ex (Kill Bill), Satanic bengs from other dimensions (Hellraiser) and other 'adult' concepts.

And Disney acquired Miramax in 1993, 3 years before Jean wrote that piece. Exotica and Pulp Fiction had been out 2 years before that piece was written, so it is not like Disney changed its ways.

Now we really are off topic, though, lol