Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Answers to Questions

Bearing in mind that was 9 years ago lol however don't most agencies in the USA sell each other data, thats why the EU are strict about data going out of the EU unless the USA companies comply with our data controls.

However this made me smile



Seems a lot safer than the USA government then

Agreed. I would also go on to state that few people these days even regard the MPAA ratings anymore. It all boils down to whether a kid can walk into a movie theater to see a movie, or just wait until it hits DVD. The MPAA ratings have been largely made irrelevant.

indeed...



(I go build a mickey mouse ava..., ah, forgot...copyrights...-ok, I build an austrian idiot ava...wich represents myself then - in case I stay here until Daisy and Goofy moving in...)

What about staging an endless protest parade through Linden Village?

Really? And where does it state that? Would love a reference that applies in this situation, please.

So you're playing a war game where you have bought a castle and someone invades that - you feel you have the right to sue them, or the game maker in RL because of that? As I said before. I think you would be laughed out of any court.

And LL have said that that will not change - they're not going to do anything to personal residences with this policy.

I'm sorry, but you can not just toss aside the TOS and claim that their marketing slogan is somehow law. You pay the fees knowing and accepting the contents of the TOS, otherwise you shouldn't be playing SL. it said so very clearly when you signed up.


The TOS is part of your contract that you entered into with LL. If your rental agreement said "We reserve the right to evict you without notice or cause, and, while you retain intellectual rights to any property in the house that you rented, we own it", would you have signed that contract? I'm guessing not, but that's pretty much the contract you agreed to when you joined SL. You might not like it, but you agreed to it.


Seems like quite the pattern on both sides of this argument, in these threads. The idea that any resident has rights above and beyond what is in the TOS is also a specious avoidance of the facts.

Yes, funny that, and the TOS was PART of that agreement.

Which like any service provider is totally within their rights.

Which, as far as I know, isn't illegal, it's just not good business practice. If you do that regularly you are going to lose customers. Lose enough and you will go out of business.

This is my point - what LL are doing may well be bad business practice, but it is not illegal, and, pending some very expensive class action lawsuit, will remain that way. Showing LL that they will lose the business they sought to build up (if that is possible) is the way to change this, not to start getting lawyer-esque on them.

I have worked with enough companies who have been threatened on the internet with legal action - the lawyers of that company quite clearly give guidance as "do not engage them on this issue - if they want to threaten this they will have to back it up with a lawsuit". This isn't going to faze them in the least.

No, sorry. The TOS quite clearly says that the data is owned by LL. Saying it does not make it so.

Yes, they would. Because nobody in their right minds would agree to clauses in their contracts the like of which we all agreed to when we signed on and had the opportunity to read the TOS, which is referred to during the account creation process. So... this isn't RL, you agreed to the TOS, and now you are claiming it holds no weight?

Please, I feel that there are many, many concerns connected with this issue which are highly valid concerns - it may well cause LL some serious damage to make this change and if they insist on going through with it, I think it's in all of our interests to make it work with the least hassle to all of us.

Threatening legal recourse will just shut down the discussion, not further it.

Number one:

There are 30 or so people fighting a pitched battle to kill SL so their alternative virtual world(s) will have a chance. They want the money. Linden Lab is getting it. The only solution is to kill off Linden Lab. Only an utter moron cannot see this as it is painted all over the place if you know how to analyze information. So keep this in mind.

Number two:

The people that want SL out of the way can and do use NPIOF throw away accounts to attack welcome areas with the most awful and objectionable content possible. It is apparent Linden Lab cannot stop this from happening as long as they allow user created content and LSL scripting. Since this is the cornerstone of Second Life this is what is under attack. The goal is to kill Second Life so the obvious path to that goal is to cause LL, a company that is rather obviously driven instead of a souless competition crushing corporation as it needs to be, will eventually consider removal of all resident inventory and removal of the asset system as well as build tools and scripting to solve the problem of adult content being constantly injected into PG areas. These same people will also pose as net nannies and the moral minority and educational institution reps (how unsurprising considering who wants LL out of the way). They will also go after the financial systems by way of trying to get paypal out of the picture as well. This is a coordinated strategic attack on Linden Lab.

Number three:

Therefore it is clear the approach is backwards and that access to PG areas must be restricted to people who have manually confirmed identity with mailed documentation to Linden Lab. This way if one of them deploys adult content then LL can file unauthorized network access charges against them in real life. I.e.; you can't allow anonymous access to areas where content must be controlled. It just doesn't work that way.

Number four:

Most importantly Linden Lab needs to hire smarter people capable of seeing things from a strategic intelligence collection level and go about identifying and infiltrating the organizations that seek LL's demise and dealing with those organizations properly. This involves using law enforcement organizations.

Personally I am amazed at how obvious the activities are.
Linden Lab needs to wake up and realize who their sworn enemies are.

And mercilessly crush them.

/me tosses these bytes into the pit of void.

Since those alternate Linden worlds don't exist yet, this plan seems like getting out of the boat before having one foot on the dock.

I believe it's more likely they see adult themed land as being more profitable (to LL, not necesarrily current residents), so they build a virtual adult Disney. It also presents the veneer of "cleaning up" the naughtiness in SL without having to go to the effort of actually removing any content.

This isn't remotely true, if the TOS conflicts with the law of the land, the law of the land wins. I've seen sellers on ebay saying they're not responsible for delivery, that's their terms, if I buy from them and my item doesn't arrive their terms aren't worth the pixels they're printed on, I get my money back.

There are consumer protection laws, I'd wager LL were awfully close to breaching umpteen of them over openspaces, namely not updating their pricing page in reasonable time. If someone had challenged that after buying an openspace in December I'd wager they'd have won the case hands down.

Just as a point of clarification: It is not illegal in the United States for anyone to give out their SSN. It is exorbitantly stupid, but not illegal.

It is illegal, however, to require someone to divulge their SSN as a form of identification.

I also own an adult-themed club on a mainland parcel for which I paid 69,000L. I just now spoke to LL support and asked if, when moved, I would be reimbursed for my land as I only own it for the sake of the club and land is not selling these days because of this whole adult content hullabaloo. My club is also located 800m in the air and there is nothing offensive on the land below unless you count a boat as offensive. My main concern is, yes, what will I be offered in the land "swap" and how will this affect my business in general? Someone please give us some answers rather than vague offerings of "we will give you pointers on your land" and "you won't have to pay tiers during the move." Gee thanks. Linden Lab, please think about the land owners and club owners here who may just leave the game. Also, will we be forced to pay tier on whatever boxed in piece of land you give us? Are searches changing? I think frankly, you underestimate the role of adult themes in SL with poseballs everywhere. It is a matter of if you don't like it, don't go there. I think, like all people affected by this, we want more definitions, especially land-owners, so we may prepare and inform those that the ripples affect.

Okay... since we're splitting hairs...



The censor in this case, would be the Lindens imposing this policy.

The communicative materials would be objects, advertisements, stores, people wearing 'unacceptable' clothes in a PG area, or even using 'inappropriate' language in a public area.

What is considered objectionable, harmful or sensitive is at best obtusely and inadequately defined so as to afford the Lindens, the censor in question, broad justification for draconian puritanical action.

The suppression... and in deference to your passion for definitions, let's be clear on the word suppression here:

Suppression: (To oppress) 1. to put an end to the activities of (a person, body of persons, etc.) 2: to do away with by or as by authority; abolish; stop (a practice, custom, etc.). 3. to withhold from disclosure or publication (truth, evidence, a book, names, etc.).

This suppression comes in the form of relocating it out of the public mainstream and relegating it to a ghetto, wherein sales of such material will be detrimentally affected by concentrating it in a sim unable to handle the number of people selling it. Enjoyment of related venues will be impacted negatively causing people to seek it elsewhere or cease engaging in that activity. Where consumption of said material will be affected by overcrowding and lag issues, again, negatively affecting the enjoyment of the materials. In effect, penalizing the consumer for their moral and sexual preferences.

Age verification in order to keep enjoying all the aforementioned activities and materials among consenting adults will now require the surrender of information that opens the user up to identity theft, causing people to have to choose between safety and a previously safe activity to engage in. And finally, the nebulous implication that underage people will be allowed into the game produces a cooling effect among consenting adults, suddenly unwilling to risk the possibility of relating in mature and adult ways with someone that could possibly be a minor. Opening said adult to the risk of legal reprisal or emotional distress. Each one of these outcomes as a result of this policy can be considered suppression of said activities.

How by you is this policy and its effects NOT Censorship?

Okay... Moving right along to your next definition:



The group, class, or category in this case would be consenting adults with an interest in prurient activities, as well as sexually active individuals whose interest may not necessarily be based in fetish based materials, play or expression. This may also extend to the sexual preferences of the individual, or their notion of gender or sexual identity. IE: (Gay. Lesbian. Bisexual. Polyamourous, Transgendered.)

The treatment or consideration would be using the interest in that particular form of media, materials, data, whatever you'd like to call it to force said individuals into a laggy ghetto wherein their experience will be degraded or their financial well-being impacted. Official sanction of said policy is inherently damaging to enjoyment, business and the self-esteem of the individuals in question, as the direct implication is that their activities, speech, interests, identity, or mode of expression is something to be hidden away from other adults because it is upsetting, or somehow wrong.

The predjudice in this case would be the people forcing the change, or the consideration by those inspiring the business decision by the lindens that such activity is inherently wrong among consenting adults, and should be hidden away (See definition 3: Suppression), and that the people practicing this behaviour, enjoying the aforementioned proscribed activities should also be removed to the r-rated continent. Their behaviour as proscribed as the materials on the basis of preference alone. Not based on the individual merits of the individual. (See again, Discrimination.)

As far as going bankrupt over this and needing to get a grip on reality, I'll thank you not to condescend to me when my linden balance was all I had between complete bankruptcy while looking for a job last year. It was literally a matter of my having to convert lindens to greenbacks for food and gasoline. My point is that even in light of the importance of that linden balance in the past as an emergency fund, I'd rather see the whole thing vanish into the ether than be censored and discriminated against. Wheras your point would seem to be 'suck it up' because you don't want to be inconvenienced.

There's words for that too. Apologist. Appeaser. They have some very unkind overtones to them. I'd encourage you to pull your dictionary back out and look them up as well.

You are correct. In particular, you'd be thinking of 'Distribution of Harmful Matter to Minors'. It was the thing they busted Jello Biafra, the Dead Kennedys and their label, Alternative Tentacles over when they got in trouble for the album 'Frankenchrist' with a painting on the cover by the swiss master, H.R.Giger (Won the oscar for designing the Alien in Ridley Scott's 'Alien'.)

Some info on SSN's

http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs10-ssn.htm

Yes, perhaps, but by placing 'adult' content in one location, it is easier to Disnify all the rest. I wonder how long 'New Amsterdam' will last. I can see LL getting rid of it in, say, three years - presuming the residents have not emigrated to Cyberotica by then.

I strongly recommend listening to the interview with Mitch Kapor (25 January 200. The most important part is the middle third.

I might be mistaken, but I think the original concern was not how the parcel would be listed in search, but the fact that, as a mixed-use parcel, whether any listing in search whatsoever constitutes deeming the parcel as "public-access" - and, what would be the consequences if someone happens upon said parcel and "spots" a couple doing the nasty in their own private sex bed in their own private residence, which just happens to be an apartment above their perfectly-PG store.

I agree, but don't know how much a TOS counts in the USA. Maybe a TOS has more weight there. In countries in wich I lived so far, has a TOS not too much weight. Here in Austria it is called AGB, and has to be relative clear defined, has to be relative small and not overloaded and cannot set consumers out of all rights per se. Much, much, much small and even bigger companies here or in Germany have a hmmm? how to say? perforated TOS or however we will name such a thing per country. Not each article is stable in front of the law, i.e. consumer protection law. Some TOS we had here, were complete worthless, came out at courts. So, a TOS means not much, if it comes to a serious conflict. A TOS may look dominant and impressive, but in result is a TOS often enough pure blabla, same as EULA's.

EULA's of MS are here for example worthless, because of this passus: "before opening the software-packet you agree..." -well and this fits not our consumer-protection law in Austria, so this EULA is frequently a nuller, means: has no grip, is worthless, is wasted paper and trash.

As far as I understood, is LL on ice, but was and is often even on *very thin* ice... - I think they try to handle that ever with a tactic of calculated risk, but this means that they are not out of any risk.

On the other hand: where is no prosecutor, there is no judge.

On this they hope. If one has the courage one day, they may learn something. Like Microsoft, wich has to pay now some hundred millions of dollars to the EU, because violation of consumer rights.

Well. Sometimes, it works.

To me that sounds like the best possible outcome. Given a choice of SL based server-providers, I would certainly commute my business to one that forbade its use by underage persons. I would choose not to sell my products on XStreet, as I would not want to contribute to any profit for linden labs while they were still practicing discriminatory business and censorship. It's certainly buggy enough to be the new Windows. ^_^!!

Okay. That was mean. There's no need to be mean. Wherever I go... there I am. *^_^*

Excellent!

Then this is an unacceptable proposition, as it, amongst its many other unanticipated restrictions, will also bar landowners or anyone living in a private residence from hosting parties.

Do you own an elaborate castle and want to invite a select guest list for a fancy ball? If you do, and you happen to own a sexgen bed somewhere on the premises, then you can kiss your account goodbye.

Sorry. That doesn't wash. TOS' are frequently made impenetrable by legalese in most cases, and usually amount to 'You should be happy we're even letting you use our precious software. You have no rights, or means by which they may be redressed. You, your behaviour and your stuff are ours to toy with.' You don't get to say that on one hand, but on the other promise things you have no intention of delivering on. It's still widely considered to be a bait and switch. Legal, yes. But also a shady and bad faith business practice no worthier than loan sharking, or the mortgage practices that tanked the US economy lately.

Not reading the small print doesn't make me wrong any more than it makes them right for burying it in the TOS. TECHNICALLY, far as Terms of Service agreements go, the US government is in violation for using Windows based PC's in the development of nuclear weapons. It doesn't make the TOS right. Nor is the government going to stop using them for that. And I certainly don't see M$ invalidating the gov's copies of windows over it.

And the thread continues... And locking topics... Yeah, it's definately, because the forum software is older then dirt. If you look at past threads the attachments are broken (old threads). Because someone doesn't know how to port and it's probably using BLOB on mysql.

Anyway, questions are still not getting answered. We have speculation and fear abound but no solid answers to our questions.


1) If you own X-meters of land. Will you be GIVEN the same amount of land on the adult sim? OR will you have to buy it from a greedy land bot at a huge markup?

2) What is "adult" content? Is it a sex bed? If someone has a sex bed in thier home will they have to move because they have sex?! Is it pictures? What is adult, and don't pussyfoot the issue giving vague sweeping references. We aren't interested in those! We want FACT not FICTION!

3) When is this going to happen, and why is it happening?! Did the church give LL's a bunch of money to clean up it's act?

4) What happened to "Your world, your imagination"? Is that buried in the dust?

5) Why can't parcel's be marked as adult or if a whole mainland sim is 90% adult why can't it be changed? (And don't say it can't because I'm a system admin, and it only takes a second to change things through MYSQL. So, when LL's says names can't be changed that's BS because you only have to go in to the field and change the name and the name changes globally. Anyone who works with programming and computers can tell you that.) Why can't LL's change names for people? Because of the lazy factor... Adult land is just another example of this lazy factor.

6) Why is this so important? Educators aren't really interested in SL as a learning platform. In fact my college went with another VR a long time back because of the fact we could run it from our own network, and it had A) Better graphics B) Better physics C) Customization. Does anyone believe that college students working with prims is going to make the Dean's office go... Wow... This is great. They're building things? No, because how is that going to help in the real world... And... What college student hasn't seen a naked body part?!



Well, that's alll my questions, but 1 and 2 are the ones I want answers for. If not I'm premium I'll be submitting support tickets to find out the answers I want. If I'm directed back here I'll continue to submit them. I pay for the privilage of being part of SL. And paying membership dues should mean that we're entitled to answers not the run around! No one wants to be told... Go to the forum and ask. Because there is only 1 Linden answering questions here! We want to know what's going on! Broad sweeping assessments, and double talk is not what we want! If you pain your users this much causing grief and un-due stress people will leave. If they leave they will take content with them. If they take content with them everyone loses out on something that could have been great, is great, or just loses out on a person who inspires, etc.

It's the butterfly effect. If you lose one person... Then another... And another... Suddenly whole nations are gone. Whole cities are left in ruin, and the place known as Second Life is nothing more then a ghost town. It might not happen in a day, week, or year, but the tighter restrictions come on people and their creations they will began to look for alternatives, or just make their own. Open Sim isn't a competitor yet, but with enough intellegent programmers all handling bug reports, and creating fixes...

I think we'll see a lot more OpenSim platforms opening up soon. *shakes head*

Well, I'm off to go submit my questions, if I actually get real answers I'll return with knowledge but the way this whole fiasco is being treated I doubt anyone knows the answers.

You will lose 40% of your business - unless that 40% can be somehow persuaded to age-verify even if they have no intention of stepping foot in Pornodelphia.

It is an absolute fallacy to believe that NPIOF means "has no money".

ROFL, Disneyland is there to make a profit, nothing more, nothing less. Read up on Walt Disney sometime.

Puts a new twist on 'Adventureland!'

I expect the first wave of the new constellation of virtual worlds to be a mixed bag. Competition will be fierce as companies seek to position their worlds for overlapping market segments. Some will go bust, taking thousands of dollars of small-investor money with them. My hope is that there is not too much carnage in the initial phase. My concern is that a high-profile world will become embroiled in scandal that brings the entire universe of virtual worlds under government regulation. So much depends on the wit and intelligence of the first movers.

I expect Linden Lab to play it safe. They have everything to gain and little to lose from adopting conservative strategies. Banality is probably a good thing for them. Again, Disney is making a fortune by grinding out the same slop year after year.

I don't mean to sound condescending, but anyone with a successful business in SL knows that the money is not in high-end, premium content; it is in the mass-market stuff. Can we fault Linden Lab for adopting a similar strategy?