Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Answers to Questions

This answer is ambiguous... Does this mean we will have to purchase the new parcel? My friend and I have a 2048 sm lot that we paid a lot of money for a few months ago...(too much money, but we carefully chose the location)...are we going to be GIVEN a 2048 sm lot in Pornotopia or are we going to have to PURCHASE it??

It gets better and better doesn't it. First it was the assurance that the AO decree won't affect people's homes. Now we might have a mixed use decree that says that if there's sex there it'll be listed as adult even if it's in a private home!

In my case I have a quarter region which is Mature rated and has PG content which will in fact be in line with the new mature classification. BUT way up in the sky is my private home which has sex there, not a lot but still sex. My private home is security protected so only those who are white listed can gain entry to it. But STILL that quarter region will be classified as Adults Only.

So I have two choices: Move my private home to a separate residential parcel or move the whole quarter region over the wall into the red light district where my PG oriented visitors won't be able to gain access!

So having my sex in a house on a residential parcel completely open and not security protected will be ok because it's a private home on a residential parcel.

Hey, I just worked it out: I'm on Candid Camera. /me looks into the camera trying to disguise his embarassment and smiles

Sorry to clip your quote. Thank you for explaining the issue a bit more. I'll work on getting that answer out tomorrow.

Perhaps because, as a professional content creator and sim designer, I'll build almost anything for anybody? Want a Circa 1800's church, complete with stained glass windows? Check, I've done that for clients. Want a kinky BDSM and Bestiality dungeon? Check, I've done that too. University campus? Check. Bordello skybox? Check. The only thing I won't build is content that is explicitly related to violent combat or harm to others. You want a "non-consentual rape area", or a place that features mutilating or killing victims? Go somewhere else, because I won't build it.

No, You'll get it for free in exchange, tier fee remains the same on the new lot. While changing, no double tier fee will appear, even while you hold then 2 lands for a while, he told some pages ago. This is the meaning of his todays answer too.

But why negotiate things wich are not negotiable? Would you move in rl too, because of arbitrarily decisions of whomsoever?

Me not.

No one would. Especially no one over 18 of age.

This is all a farce.

No.. I think the question is: if a new resident does NOT go to the Aristotle website to do the verification themselves but they DO enter their payment info at LLs website, will LL send any of the residents info to Aristotle for verification?

I had no trouble with age verification in Canada. Not tried anywhere that tries to check for it to see if they can confirm it in SL, but it does show up on my account info as successful.

Thank you, Blondin. That particular point is one I would not expect an off-the-cuff answer for. Hopefully I made my point clearly enough. You'll find lots of supporting material if you search the JIRA database for entries by me for the past year and a half, relating to age verification. I listed the links to the JIRA posts earlier in this massive thread.

Blondin had already stated the land was available for anyone that wanted to move there, I am thinking about the adult content providers that are told they have to move and LL doing a swap of the land for us meter for meter as he has stated having all these other people trying to get a free land swap then selling it on at a premium to those that may just want to move there. Especially if you have a crappy mainland parcel you can't sell lol

You misunderstand. First of all, the stated goal is not "limit access to adult content". It's "achieve a more predictable and enjoyable SL experience for everyone." But for the sake of argument, I will allow your version. So: GOAL: 1. Limit access to adult content to those who wish such access and are of age to do so. 2. Restrict adult content from impingeing on those who do NOT wish to experience it. Please note that I am not against this. What I object to most strenuously is LL's means of achieving it.

Now, the plan. As stated by LL, it consists of four parts. I will list each one, along with my objections to it.

1. Define a new maturity rating, "Adult content".

Objection: We've been debating this for a month now. Depending on who you ask in LL, you get very different answers. In fact, it is impossible to draw this line, because people will ALWAYS disagree on what is "extreme" or "offensive" or "pornographic". The US Supreme Court wasn't able to decide this issue. LL is NOT smarter than they were.

2. Require all businesses with Adult content to move to a new mainland continent. Require estates with adult content to flag it on a sim level.

Objections:

a. You can't reliably define a "business" vs. a "residence". Some people hold parties (and collect tips to defray expenses) at their homes. Some people have extended "family groups". A building that looks like a residence on the outside can be a club on the inside. People can have their homes over their store or club.

b. Just moving the "businesses" doesn't move the adult content. People can still cam inside your home. Your "home" could be out in the open, in a park or garden. People can buy "adult" attachments and wear or use them anywhere. Therefore, people who are offended by adult content will still encounter it, and continue to be offended.

c. Creating a new continent dumps more land into an already-depressed land market.

d. Flagging entire sims as "adult" may disrupt current estate builds and rental patterns.

e. There is a whole host of issues relating to the moves. LL has no conception of the turmoil and effort it takes to disassemble a large build and relocate it. The whole issue of "gaming" the system and land resale has not been thought out. The issue of whether people who are not *forced* to move but *wish* to move has not been addressed. And many others.

f. It does not address the problem of adjoining PG and Mature parcels. There will still be plenty of stuff going on in Mature areas that a PG-dweller may find disturbing.

3. Require "account verification" by having Payment Info Used or by age verifying in order to access Adult areas.

Objections:

a. The current age verification system is broken in several places, from registration to using it to access flagged parcels. LL has not said how/when it will be fixed.

b. Posession of/use of a credit card or a PayPal account is not a legally accepted means of age verification

c. Everyone in SL is already supposed to be 18+. Why is an additional layer of proof needed, when no other adult websites require such?

d. The largest block of residents is No Payment Info on File. They are being forcibly separated from Adult content...a wall is being thrown up between businesses and a major portion of their customers.

4. Improve Search to filter out Adult results.

Objection: LL has never yet implemented a Search that works effectively. Try using a three letter search term, for example. Or try a People search for some of your favorite Lindens...those with one-letter first names.

To summarize:
The move will be hugely disruptive economically, on an individual level and grid-wide.
It will not prevent the easily-offended from encountering offensive content.
It WILL prevent a large number of customers from accessing content they desire.
It will not, cannot by its very nature, be applied fairly and evenly.

You have it backwards. LL is not doing "the right thing for the wrong reasons". They're doing the WRONG thing for the RIGHT reasons."

But do you have to advertize it? Wouldn't 'I'll build anything for anybody' be a good enough slogan? It may still be a contextual thing though.. if your ad said 'I'll build anything, from a nature park to a corporate HQ to BDSM gear' then the context would be clear that you are building, not offering use of said equipment...

I think it means you'll be GIVEN a lot in EXCHANGE for your existing one; even in Blondin's post #3 on 1 April, it's referred to as a swap:

When are we releasing details on the land swap?

We’re still a few months away from beginning any land swap related work, and we’ll introduce the program with ample opportunity for Residents to consider all their options. What we already know is 1) we are not charging for the move 2) we’ll ensure tier fees are not charged in the same period for the source and destination plots 3) we are sensitive to extenuating circumstances and understand that leeway will be needed for certain individuals. This will be judged on a case by case basis 4) We’ll also leave a pointer on the old mainland parcel(s) or a period of time after the move, so visitors following out dated bookmarks will be able to follow them to the new location.

I figure that "1) we are not charging for the move" is meant to confirm there'll be no land cost involved IF it's a straight swap - after all, they can't be saying that they're not charging for the removal truck, because they're not sending one However, I'm just as certain that means if you want to keep your existing land and move only your adult content, you'll have to pay for a new lot.

What i meant was that she holds events there so therefore it follows that we could under those rules advertise our BDSM business in the same way with a few changes to the layout to match those rules. Thats why we need some clearly defined guidelines so that we can work with them as you have rightly asked for

However that being said i would prefer to move working on the assumption that the adult land will eventually get a premium for it when and if we sell it

You are using the word 'arbitrary' to mean 'I disagee with this so their cannot be a valid reason.'

Such moves are rare but do happen RL. A couple years ago the city bought out a sizable number of RL residences because of landslide risk (several properties had already been lost, thankfully no loss of life). They get appraised value since in RL there is no easy option of a swap for swap property for property.

The residents had no choice nor legal recourse other than ensuring the appraisals were correct.

Occassionally there are such appropriations if a city needs land for a specific project. Even though the project does not always go through, the appropriations are still upheld as long as there was a legitimate case for need at the time of the appropriation.

I meant a one to one swap.. .and if it is crappy land now, then they should get crappy land on the other side too. At best it would be a lottery. They might get better land or not. At the very least, LL could ensure it was on the outside of a parcel rather than the middle of one, reducing extortion opportunities.

Pending further clarification from LL, ANY ad, regardless of keywords or content of the ad, that points to a parcel that contains "Adult Content", appears to make that parcel, in Linden eyes, a "Public venue" and require it to be flagged Adult. Regardless of WHY it is advertised. I have asked for explicit clarification on this.

Please answer my ignored repeatedly questions, your making me ill, I have health problems and your making them worst by just ignoring my questions all the time.....

FRUSTERATED, PISSED, AND MAD...

How is this proposed policy consistent with the existing LL policy of welcoming multiculturalism and non-discrimination policy on tolerance of any group of individuals as the community standard regardless of their AGE, BELIEF, and SEX PREFERENCES?

A few people have asked that a new thread get created by Blondin (or Blue or whoever) and immediately locked. Lindens (and Strife and 1-2 others) can edit & post to locked threads but the rest of us can't.

Blondin, that would make finding stuff you've already answered and the list of pending questions a LOT easier. Summer is obviously unhappy but I, for one, have no idea what her question was. With 10,000 or so posts in these threads, it's hard to keep track..

I totally agree with Meade, i am following the thread but have to keep notes just to follow it You could still post the answers in this thread and cross post them to the new locked thread as has been suggested

With due respect, I did discuss both goals. Regardless, doing something right for the wrong reasons is still doing something right.



Nevertheless, most cases get sorted out long before the supreme court, and those that make it to the supreme court do not automaticly fail. I have said in a few posts now that we do have a working definition of adult content, and even though we are still refining it, it is still both used in RL and useful in RL. It is a 'common law' definition based on specific case precidents rather than the kind of technical definition that many here are trying to pin LL to.



And yet we have these definitions in RL too and somehow we seem to manage to keep going. Your response explains *why* we use common law instead of technical defintions. Too many variables. In RL it does not matter what the building looks like or if people really do live their either. If it is being opened to the public, and they do nothing to screen out minors, and they get caught with minors there, they will be in serious trouble. And if it looks like a commercial operation at all, unless the city allows for that, the city may fine the residents on that basis irrespective of whether it is an adult oriented operation or not.



Yes they can. However as long as the accused was taking reasonable precautions, the cammer is guilty of voyeurism and/or tresspass. The AR should fail just as it would if someone was looking through your window in RL with a telescope.



LL can delete unowned land and thus take it off the market if need be. The sims moved from will likely be deleted in such a manner. Next?



Such disruption will be temporary, and I have argued that LL should be doing their best to mitigate such disruption. They should do a lot more than the 'we will give you some help files, which seems to be their current answer. That is something we should be taking up with them, but is not a reason to do nothing.



Again, LL should be doing everything they can to mitigate. Argue for that as I am. Still not a reason to do nothing though.



Yes, but it will be only 'mature' not adult. The risk is lower and the are you 18+ question is likely sufficient. Regardless I am also in favour of them expanding age verification to the entire grid. Next?



Well then isn't the time and effort saying this should not happen at all distracting from advocating getting that working? I agree on the PIOF not being adequate.



Because it does not work in RL. No age restricted venues in RL let you get away with just answering yes to such a question.



But some of those NPIOF's are likely underaged. That is the whole point of age verification, to keep out the customers whom you cannot legally offer services to. The fact that you would make more money being able to sell to them is irrelevant. The fact that most NPIOF customers are not underaged is irrelevant since there is no way of telling which are which without requiring them to provide some sort of proof.



And your solution is? Eliminate search altogether? How is having better filters bad?



Inability to prevent does not invalidate mitigation. Inability to do everything does not validate doing nothing.



So... the fact that fewer underage individuals will have access is 'the wrong thing' to you? Care to justify that?

Such preferences are all protected under the charter of rights. That does not mean they extend infinately though.

If I firmly believe in free sex, belong to a church of free sex, even if that church has a large following, I would not be allowed to have sex with minors, even on church property.

I am pretty sure that defense has been tried RL, since it is an obvious one to try.

e) (although this applies to the goal of a more predictable experience). If you need to be PIU or PIOF to enter an adult area, then you need to make sure that you remain NPIOF to be protected from adult content - i.e. this protection from adult content (and a more predictable experience etc.) is not available to premium members.

Matthew

Unfortunately this doesn't meet the criterias of *our* program, as customers and 18+ adults - that LL is doing the wrong thing for the - maybe - right reasons.

(to say it as a slightly modified version of Blondin's famous sentence, after he was asked, why LL does not just create Ursula for the fans of living "Parent Guided" ...and he answered desert-dry: "Unfortunately this doesn't meet the criterias of our program." )

...LOL...

For what do we have a landstore and a complete yellow map and much abandoned parcels and sims? Anyone who likes to live separate and as "PG" can buy and build PG-paradises in masses, in any size and for any reasons and big as continents if wanted.

This is not our problem and not our obligation as 18+, by no law on earth, to satisfy them with going in exile.

They are free to do their "PG" thing where they want, like we are free to do our things.

All other ideas are pure totalitarism.

If that meets *our* criterias as free and adult citizens, is obvisouly not interesting for the Laboratory.

And what ARE the ominous "criterias" of that obscure "program"?

No answer.

Because for any sorts of apartheid is *no* legitimate criteria existent.

I'm not negotiating anything with them or with anyone else. I'm just doing what I'm told and making sure I'm not losing the money my friend and I spent in January on that piece of land in doing so. If that's the case, we're just closing the thing up and calling it a day. I'll leave the fighting to the old-timers and the people with more land than I have since I've been told on more than one occasion (privately and in a group chat) that they're more important than I am because they've been here longer or they have more land than I have or they paid more money than I did or whatever. I'm just reading the forums and making sure I'm not losing money. Not really caring much about the "issues" anymore.

[And before I get blasted...please...it's my RIGHT to stop caring... Personally, I welcome new people with OPEN ARMS because they're the future of this virtual world and because, whether you've been in-world a year or five years, we were all NEW once. How long you've been there or how much money you've spent doesn't make you any better than me! Sorry, venting...and the primary reason I'm mostly just READING these damn forums now...]