Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Answers to Questions

Others have made some of these points, but (despite the *wink*--which some may not catch) I feel I have to respond.

First, it's true: I am doing this more as an exploration into the silliness of the whole endeavor than with an immediate intent of getting into a large-scale adult business. *HOWEVER*...

I fail to see how it would materially harm the "genuine adult venues" to have other residents on Ursula, with lesser sim resource demands. Granted, it would be a break in the wall-to-wall smut, and wall-to-wall smut has its charms (just as Bay City would be better if it had more Bay City builds). But if Ursula really ends up packed with nothing but high-impact vendors and XXX clubs, nobody will be able to move from one pr0n palace to the next anyway. You'll need some of us backsliding pornographers to keep the FPS up.

And maybe someday I'll want to make My Very Own Pr0n Palace again. I can do that now on *any* of the Mainland that I bought--and in fact I've hosted public Adult Only content on some of it before. Now I'm just trying to preserve that ability on *some* of that land--which is already a sacrifice because I used to be able to move land back and forth between uses, at will.

And if indeed land prices go up in Ursula, it necessarily will be at the expense of prices on the rest of the Mainland: whatever demand there is for Adults Only mainland, it's demand that was previously filled by the other continents. So why should I have to ride the prices down on a sub-Adult continent? Why isn't my Mainland investment as good as anybody else's?

I should also mention that I'm not trying to "trade-up" in land quality. Well, okay, one of the three parcels will be difficult to replicate on Ursula unless they relax the new landcutting rules. But the other two are perfectly good parcels, carefully chosen to not completely screw-up the rest of their sims when the swapped parcels go to auction. I retain non-adult holdings in all three of those sims, so I have an interest in the places staying nice. Granted, that won't be the case for all folks hoping to swap.
Don't sell yourself short, Lindal.

Doesn't really to answer the question....

/me sends Blondin, who's answers seem to be getting shorter, a chaste hug, a giant thermos of coffee and a spa (PG!) gift certificate to revive him. Some seem to be taking out their (understandable!) frustrations on Blondin. His answers may make me want to kick something but I think he's just the messenger. Please be nice to the only person at LL who will talk to us about this stuff, folks..

I (and I'm the one who asked the original question) was really looking for one of two answers, Blondin.. 1) No, LL will absolutely not send payment info to Aristotle (or some other age 'verification' service) if you don't do it yourself or 2) Yes, we might send your info to Aristotle (or etc) to verify your info if you don't do it yourself.

edit: and for those using (or thinking about) my traffic/payment-info script, you can grab the script source here: /54/6b/315213/1.html.

Then why did you say our BDSM Furniture store is strongly suggested to be 'adult'?? And since it's now been decided that PRIVATE SIMs that are 'adult' will have to disallow entry for non-verified av, has that changed in the last couple of hours?

Yeah this is a real slap in the face for private estates and Linden Lab's silence on the issue of what help estate owners and tenants will get is disappointing to say the least, the same goes for those with mall space.

I just visted yoru store and dont see it as adult yes it might not be everyones cup of tea but its definatly not adult

1) How will this effect current alternate viewers? Will they still be able to connect and function, or will they need to be patched and recompiled?
ANSWER: Alternate viewer behavior will depend on the versioning information they connect to the SL server with. If they claim to be 1.22 or older, they will be able to connect and function just like the 1.22 viewer will, however they will eventually need to be updated to send maturity information. After a grace period, even the 1.22 viewer will no longer be able to search for adult content. At that point, alternate viewers will need to have been updated to be able to access adult content.

2) Will 250, the current count of Ursula sims, be enough?
ANSWER: If the demand is such that there are too few sims, we will add to the supply.

3) If we do swap land over, will we be given first shot at buying more land on that sim, before it goes up for general sale, so we CAN buy land to protect builds...or expand where we couldn't before due to lack of available land?
ANSWER: This is an interesting idea that will require some additional thought.

4) I own 1/4 Mature mainland sim which is my home and my Haven. I enjoy opening my gardens to vistors (much like great houses in Europe) so my land was listed in Search and once a month I hosted a Blood Ball which was advertised in the Events. I had also planned to hold a monthly BDSM munch which is social meet 'n greet event. As I am a Vampyre Domme my gardens have all the expected Gothic ambiance with a dance floor, loaded Intan balls, sex coffins, blood pools with sex animations and quality BDSM toys among the black roses, trees, gazebos and shadows...on the ground. This WAS my home and my INDIVIDUAL ENJOYMENT came from sharing it with like minded avatars in the SL community. At no time was it intended, used or viewed as a VENUE. I like decorating it, landscaping it and knowing that when I'm not there that others are strolling in the moonlight, playing in the graveyard or wasting time with the Lament Trivia cube. 1. Will I be allowed to reopen my gardens, list it in Search under Mature and host Mature events once or twice a month as before? 2. If the answer is No then am I still "allowed" to have my sex gen items and BDSM toys in my gardens for my own use? Not everyone enjoys sex indoors, in a skybox or in a dungeon setting. I personally find most dungeons, RL and SL, to be claustrophobic, constraining and generic in decor/amostphere.
ANSWER: While individual interpretations will inevitably differ with regard to what defines a venue or a personal build, what is described sounds like an Adult build.

5) What is the purpose of "account verification"...or even of "age verification" when SL itself is stated to be an 18+ service?
ANSWER: It is an additional measure of assurance we’ve elected to implement in an effort to develop and provide quality access controls.

6) What steps will LL take to prevent the buying of land purely for reselling as seen in Nautilus and Bay City?
ANSWER: Land speculation is not a prohibited activity in Second Life.

7) I have 70% of the sim I'm in. I have cut out 2 parcels and deeded to friends groups so they can use them as they see fit. They don't have any Adult Content on these parcels. If I am moved will they be moved with me? Do I need to take the land back to insure they are moved with me.
ANSWER: Nobody will be required to move. A move to the Adult mainland is an option we plan to make available to Residents who wish to maintain an existing build such that it would be defined as Adult oriented content. If you wish to stay grouped together you would have 2 options, flag your 70% as mature thus eliminating the need to move or take the land back and re-deed it after you have moved. The situation would depend on 1) how you are going to flag your land and 2) your desire to stay connected by land to your friends.

The purpose of the proposal is to protect people from content they do not wish to see. Given that many will have PIOF for purposes other that verifying as adult. Those purchasing islands or land for business and educational purposes will be PIOF but may have no interest in adult content. Will it be possible for these people to "unverify" or otherwise indicate that they wish to be protected from accidentally entering adult areas?
ANSWER: The access controls are selectable in preferences. They may implement varying levels of access control several times per session, should they so choose.

Here was the original post:



In the situation described above - only a small percentage of the furniture had sexual aspects to them.

So, as I use a patched SL client - 'Second Life (Nicholaz Edition) 1.18.5 (3) Dec 15 2007 14:21:08 (SecondLife Nicholaz 'BleedingEdge' Edition) BE-v' and have been for ages happily and without many technical problems - and am unable to install/use the current official release(s) on any of my computers due to system requirements (even though one is only a few months old)..

..this policy is going to kill my 'adult' Second Life unless I go out and buy another computer or spend money upgrading? Sounds like it. Please confirm, I'll leave now, if that's the case.

P.S. I have a premium land owning 'verified' account too - so regardless of my PIOF status etc., I'm screwed?

/me sighs.. Bad answers! Bad!

/me hits the answers on the nose with a rolled up newspaper.

edit:

Ouch!

So.. Anybody not in on the initial land swap is screwed. Totally.


Oh c'mon, Blondin.. That's like saying nobody's required to pay taxes. It's just something you have to do if you want to stay out of jail..

Exactly FOUR of our items have 'sex animations' in them. And I have said I would disable them for display purposes. If you are on the BDSM = SEX rant, you are sadly, sadly wrong my friend. I suggest you do some research instead of being lead astray. CAN there be a sexual aspect of BDSM, of course. Some people find sexual arousal in shoes, food, everything else.. shall we put all shoe stores in Pornsylvania? If you bother to research you'll find that 'sex' is a small part of the BDSM community.. some would find any 'sexual' aspects of BDSM to be distasteful and revolting...

You are so sweet, Blondin.

Follow-up question: Why not verification for all users then?

Thanks for your time.

I wish more information would be available. I am sure its because it isn't all ironed out yet at the head quarters of LL's.

I am hoping that all Land swaps happen first before the land bots come in and take up all the land. I am still finding zillions of people that didn't realize this was even happening..the force move.

I have a few questions:

1) I am wondering if we will be offered land swap, and assuming its going to be a free swap, will all our land for our group be offered in the swap. I pay tier on only half of the land, my business partner has the other half. Its all connected. All considered a part of one business. Or will only the part considered "adult" have to move and only given the option of land swapping?

2) Will LL's give us the option of what land in the Adult Continent is to be swapped, or will we have to take whatever is offered?

3) If the only available on a sims that would fit our business yet has another adult club on it, can we decline and wait for more developed land without having to close down on the mainland due to lack of land that would make a business sense even possible? I won't be forced into a move onto a sims with another club already there. Both clubs would end up closing or the stronger one prevail.

I really don't see how any of this will work. Not forcing all LIKE entities together so closely. At least now we are separated by a lot of different types of business and/or other ideas.

Which is why any company that sells the actual names and addresses (as opposed to selling general information that is not related to specific individuals) is often in itself illegal. In fact, check out California civil code sections 1798.90.1 (specific to drivers licences) and 1798.80-1798.84 (more general). Those laws apply to California businesses. If any business LL uses to verify data misuses the data, LL has some serious explaining to do.

Note that selling general information like X number of people play online games would (as I understand it) not be in violation, but selling someone's driver's licence or specific shopping habits seems like it would be almost certainly be a breach.




And in doing so, they either make internet transactions more difficult to engage in, or make money laundering easier, or both.

That's the fun thing about freedom, it restricts other freedoms. Besides, societies default is traditionally that if no reasonable level of protection is possible SHUT IT DOWN.

Arguing kids don't need protection is a non-starter. Society pretty much everywhere in the world has decided otherwise. Arguing that keeping kids out or even slowing them down is impossible is simply an arguement for banning all adult content.

You cannot understand the concept of flagging an entire region so that teleport entry is impossible unless you are age verified? Or a 'firewall' in between that cameras cannot see through? As you say this is a virtual environment. If you lump data together, you can screen it much more easily than if it is all fragmented.



Hello? Online environment? If they needed to they could scrap the entire place and rebuild it. Not saying that would be a good idea, but the point is that kind of thing can be done.

At the very least, they can take sections off market, simply not resell them.



Academic. If you are certain they will do everything badly, why are you invested here at all? Obviously they have done something right or you would not have a stake here.



Again academic. The rules in SL are a lot less strict than those of society generally. There are those in RL who would happily look for excuses to legislate anything non-G out of existance.. not by LL law but by RL law. Why do you insist on giving them excuses?



That is like saying you do not need to brake if a kid crosses the street in front of you, since (a) the kid should have known better and (b) the parents should have been looking after the kid. If you took reasonable precautions such as trying to brake and not speeding, that would probably fly as a defence, but without doing your part there is a good chance it could end up vehicular manslaughter. Parents are responsible for their kids, but so is any member of the public who sees a kid in danger and does nothing.



Other than moving additional people to PG how does that change anything? Oh, you mean zone it but do not screen it so all you are really doing is relabeling things. That does nothing for mitigating the risk to kids, and would likely make things worse, since now there would be a stronger arguement against the 18+ screen, since there is a PG world where kids could theoretically be ok. Also you are requiring an extra set of definitions. There is enough trouble defining the line between adult and mature without having to define one between mature and PG as well.



May as well stick with the current 18+. It would not deter kids any more than the current question does.



Until you find out your kid has gotten on anyway. You cannot watch your kid 24/7 without harming your kid in other ways. And putting responsibility on the parents who are not so dilegent harms the kid, not the parents. Hence any and all other age restrictions in RL.

Please post on your main.
Unless of course you really are 2 months old, then obviously your observations of these issues are less than ideal to have informed opinion about a virtual world you have barely begun to explore.

My god, you (collectively) are actually willing to let a handful of scumbags with landbots acquire a monopoly on the land which will be absolutely necessary for certain types of businesses and venues to survive? And hold the entire Adult population of Second Life, aside from those lucky enough to get in on the initial trade, hostage for whatever price they fancy?

I'm speechless.

Don't be silly. They'll never do that.

They'll auction it to the land speculators.

If (when) that happens, it'll open up a market for people to rent Adult space on private islands at a fair price.

Ain't the land bots I'm worried about.. Once they do the initial swap and clean up all the perverts on the mainland, new land will come in a region at a time and it'll come through auctions. Er.. Or do we have auction bots now?

Maybe LL could salvage this by commiting to adding regions based on the average selling price of ursaland? Or something?

/me said earlier that LL not managing new land here correctly would effectively shut down all future growth of the 'adult' industry. Sometimes I hate being right (and it's not too late to make me wrong, LL!)

If somebody here frequents Jack's office hour, please ask him about this!!!

Private island tier is 50% more than mainland. Unless you're renting under 1/4 sim or so, I'm not sure that it's really that great of a deal, compared to where adult places are now..

Compared to where they are now it may not be. How about compared to L$50,000 for a 1024 in Ursula?

My point exactly.

I once paid L$45k for a 512 that I owned 3 sides of because LL wouldn't just give it to me and sent it to auction instead (and, hey, btw, thanks again to whoever it was that did that, you jerk). Never thought that that'd actually seem cheap...

/me thinks L$50k for 1024 will be a steal for ursula land about 2 months after they start implementing this madness..

Well I am quite new, and only just found these forums, I didn't initially think much of all this. Then it hit me, SL is meant to be adult as in grown up orintated anyway, they have a teen site for kid's dont they?! So its obvious to me that the teen site is failing or not doing as well as predicted so they are going to allow none adults on Mianland. IE this is all for the kids AGAIN, I am getting so sick of that crap. Hell I remember MSN chat and how great that was then they shut that FOR THE KIDS, any excuse these days its FOR THE KIDS, same crap here. if this goes wrong SL in five years will jsut be a fond memory and wont exsist or if it does it will be something like habbo holtel. The freedom of this place drew me in now I see that it's not freedom anymore and that things like this will kill it, I was going to go premium, now i'm certainly not if this goes though. I hope its still a question of if not when, otherwise i will quit before I start ive quit other places for this attitude i'm sure there are other places like SL out there, or will be if SL mess this up. Plus on a bussiness level I can see this hurting a lot of the adult companies and in turn linden, I think it will affect a lot more than the imagined 4%.

I hope they do take this into account though I fear they dont really care and hope to attract more 'ligitimate' businesses, like addidas and the like who abuse the use of chinese labour or the like. I mean that is much more reasonable than someone making things that people enjoy on SL, SO is meant to be about escapism, I wish the makers would remember that.

Obviously. Because this topic can only be understood from a very subjective position that does not consider any aspects beyond the impact to SL players or businesses.

If my opinions are invalid, please explain how they are invalid rather than taking the elitist position that someone new here 'could not possibly understand.'

Edit: That includes suggestions as to what I might explore that would invalidate any of my opinions, although I would prefer an explaination of how they do rather than just being sent on wild goose chases. Not all wild geese consent to being chased. Of course not all of them consent to being chaste, either...

Yeah I misspoke. Old habits die hard, I'm used to thinking in terms of how things work on the Old Established Mainland. Sorry to muddy the waters with a poorly thought out post.