Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Main Forum Thread

Of course, whether it is a forced move by one population or a voluntary move by another you are still talking ghetoization of a group of people in SL. In fact, 'voluntary' is a deceptive term in this context, as the peers of any group would pressure people to move by wondering why they all did not chose to move.

And also quite UNpopular, among residents who get unsolicited bite requests from the Spampires. There are a couple of long threads about this over in Resident Answers.

Once again...one person's enjoyment is another person's offensive activity.

THIS!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, gods above, you've summed it up in a nutshell.

Don't give us a more "predictable" experience. Give us whimsy, give us the unexpected, the unusual. Yes, even give us the shocking and outrageous and bizarre.

(I'm talking about content, mind you, not platform instability and bugs. Go ahead and fix those.)

Good post Kalderi

You have to wonder why LL don't poll their community....they know why.
It would be a massacre in terms of the result they don't want to see!

So it looks like Kapor will get his wish and disrupt this unique 3D world!

If it is truly going to be a massacre, wouldn't it be in their best interests to know this BEFORE they truly do something?

I am actually thinking that it won't be as much of a massacre as people on here seem to think, but I'd like to KNOW that rather than speculate.

Poll Question:
If Second Life is changed to segregate mainland Adult content to its own continent and to have private sims flagged as Adult where appropriate, requiring you to either have Payment Information on File or use the Age Verification process would you:

1. Spend more time and/or money as you do now in SL
2. Spend the same amount of time and money as now in SL
3. Spend less time and money in SL
4. Stop spending time and money in SL (i.e. leave)

That should give them a better sampling that the forum posts or polls could give them....

Yep, no need for the SL pioneers after building up this world. *sigh*

Believe me, I am not 'picking out' Gor (though I do disdain it), but its a world based on savage custom of, among other things, hunting and capturing Women, debasing them and demeaning them and is 100% offensive to many once they find out what it is. A squeaky-clean image and 'nice builds' impress you? How about the closest thing probably out there that regularly depicts involuntary slavery.

My point is this....I hate Gor BUT defend their right to be treated as adults as I wish to be treated. In my realms, men are treated like worms. Femdom places like mine vary in degrees of extreme sexuality or violence, but if you cannot see the inherent issue here about discrimination you are missing a HUGE ethical dilemma.

Judging a place or people by the 'prettiness' of their buildings will hurt a lot of innocents. - GINA

A definite voice of reason in this melee with the name calling started lol These are points that so many keep forgetting imho and yes its going to hurt some and some will leave over it but i think we will recover and if we don't and SL for us becomes a white elephant we will shut up shop cut our loses and remain here for friends, that is if any are left

The one thread i see through a lot of this "my god i am going to lose money" yep sad but people should never have invested more than they could afford to lose or to gamble as i see SL as one big gamble purely because its a game and LL can and as has been proven change the goalposts for whatever reason they choose. We want to count our blessings that they are not announcing they are closing their doors for good or a multitude of other things that could be more damaging than moving us adult business to a new continent. The main thing i want to hear is how LL plans to do this so we can re-model our plans for here and move forward.

Its just a shame they are not more honest with us, but how many companies are honest with their customers in these days.

http://secondlife.reuters.com/stories/2007/01/26/interview-with-linden-lab-chairman-mitch-kapor-in-davos/

this is two years old now but it did raise a smile

"The company is quite responsive to the residents as a pragmatic matter. That’s what’s in everybody’s interest. "

say what??

"But there are five percent of people who are never happy, and the company isn’t going to make them happy."

that must be us then.

But only once we have a clear and understandable definition of what they mean by "Adult Content". Their first definition was WAY too broad, and would have tagged ANY erotic content as "Adult". By that definition, virtually anyone who does not live a perfectly chaste and PG life in SL would have been affected. They recanted that definition, but replaced it with no definition at all. While they have made assurances that the new definition will be less broad, and ill somehow not affect "what you do in the privacy of your SL home". We still do not KNOW where the dividing lines will be. So we have to assume it will be just as broad as their last stated set of rules.

Aside from that, I like your poll, and would answer 3 IF given 100% assurances that all non-commercial use would be exempt, but would answer 4 if not given a better definition or if the definition given was as bad as their first attempt.

Who is 'we' that will recover, and is it really acceptable to 'lose' some people so others replace them? I may or may not remain, it depends on how this plays out ethically, but if people are truly wronged in this, I cannot see how those that are 'left' can rationalize it.

Of course, people can rationalize anything if they escape unscathed. Insisting that its normal that some will be hurt but will be replaced devalues those that get hurt and is also the rationalization principle that allows tragedy to go unchecked.

For many people it is all about money. Money is an undeniable factor, yes. But overlook the human element and rationalize away the injustices inflicted upon your neighbors at the peril of your future happiness and security. No, this is NOT on par with history's great tragedy's and everyone must choose the important battles, but to actively deny the human element is always a tragedy on any level, even if only one person is affected.- GINA

Yes, do I need to go to an adult book store to buy any of John Normans books?

No

Why because the books are of an entire fantasy civilisation.

So if I can experience them in real life without the content flagged up as some sort of pornographic story why can I not roleplay as a gorean character in second life in a mature sim if the mood takes me?

I have visited some Gorean sims and seen no sign of sex acts in the streets, not to say it doesn't go on in some of the sims, my wife played as a free woman in Tabor for a while, she never got into the master slave seen, nor was she ever approached in that way.

Regarding violence in Gor, the little I have seen from battles was hardly mind warping.

I am all for seperation of extreme content such as rl porno photos and videos which are found in many tacky sex clubs throughout SL, this is the sort of thing LL should be targeting as all users can regularly fall over them in SL, wherever they go, without any warning.

They don't offend me personally but, I can see that some people would be offended by them and due to the nature of SL have no option but to see them if wandering nearby.

I am going to post this again because I do not want it lost in the masses of posts, and it is my opinion that it is something the lindens should consider along with the rest of the community
Remember this is just an opinion of one way this might be handled and the best i can come up with im not saying is perfect but it’s all I have at this time

Obviously there will be Gorean sims that will need to be Adult (though I suspect there's more variety in Gorean sims than you're implying), but that doesn't mean that the stores selling the Gorean clothes that Nany was objecting to need to be Adult or even Mature.

The key problem here is that SL has NOT been like this from the start. If LL had the foresight and wisdom on day 1 to keep PG-only sims and Mature sims on seperare continents, and to require identifying information for all accounts, none of this would have been an issue, because the adult content would already BE seperate from the PG-only content. No one would ever hand invested thousands upon thousands of real dollars on mixed use Estates of private sims, or on vast tracts of mixed-use lands.

If they had done that, I think most of us would be quite happy today. If LL had been strictly PG on some continents and strictly Mature / XXX on others, with all accounts having to provide at least some sort of identifying information and a statement that they are over 18, then yes, I would still have joined. I might even have been slightly more eager to join that I initially was.

But they didn't. That Utopia never existed. They blew it, and continued to blow it as they built more continents, even though Residents continuously stated their preference that new continent be either all PG or all Mature, and that LL end this chaotic intermixing of ratings.

So the question before us is: Would we join a world where the company sponsoring the environment makes the residents pay for the company's mismanaged mistakes? Or, will we stay in SL, while LL insists on riding roughshod over its residents yet again, to correct a "problem" that only exists because Linden Lab CREATED this world in that image?

For me, the decision to stay or go depends on how harshly they force this down our collective throats. I seriously doubt they will settle for only seggregating the "do it for money" adult content to the Adult-Only flagged continent and sims. If you read Blondin's replies, they asked once how a voluntary move option would accomplish the goal of "removing adult content from the Mainland". No qualifier on that, exempting anything at all. So it seems that their current intent remains that all content that is in ANY way "Adult" would have to move or be on adult-flagged Estates. And that affects the vast majority of us. If they force that, it will be very difficult for me to stay here. Sure, at this time the land I live on is likely to just flag the sim Adult. When they first started making noises about age verification and flagging "Adult" content, I moved to a private sim that I knew would remain 100% Adult, and I got rid of all my other land and rented retail locations. But I wonder how many of the friends that I have in SL will not be so lucky as to already be living in an enclave that is already intended to be 100% adult, and not mixed use.

What will they do, if a Draconian change results in an overstuffed XXX continent, most of the private sims flagged as Adult, and most of the Mainland a wasteland of abandoned parcels or parcels that are for sale, but which no one will buy? What then?

Does that include the Unlucky Chairs?

(I can see it now... 'you'll take away my unlucky chair over my dead body' (sits down) 'oops')

Yes, you are right; instead of BAAAAAWWWWing about it and getting all butthurt over possibly having to move my shop, I should make rational suggestions.

In this case, I think my store should be flagged Mature, NOT Adult, for the following reasons:

1. There is no nudity allowed in my shop. Violators (if I catch them) get banned. This includes naked Gorean women, although I don't care if they want to wear their collars and slave AO's.

2.There is no sexual role play allowed in my shop. Try out the poses or animations; buy them; and take it somewhere else. I'm not running a noob sex room. Again, violators get the boot.

3.There is no escorting allowed, nobody is allowed to ask for sex, etc. in my shop. Disobey this rule and you can shop somewhere else.

4. I have segregated explicitly sexual animations to their own separate rooms, so nobody has to see them unless they choose to click on the explicitly named teleport markers. If you click on "XXX" expecting fluffy bunnies, I can't be held accountable for your terminal case of stupid.

5. There are gigantic 7 meter tall signs all over my store reminding the stupids, IN SEVERAL LANGUAGES, to keep their damned clothes on and that this is not a sex club.

Since my business supplies the tools for sexual activity, but NOT the environment, I feel it should be exempt from the Adult flag.

Hell, I'll even censor my box art if it'll make the puritans happy.

Well i only speak for myself and business so "we" means just that, sorry it was not clear enough for you. Losing people is the nature of this game as not everyone will be pleased all the time and i have lost through LL wonderful ideas of the past, some very good friends although we stay in touch with a few.

I am not going to escape unscathed thats for sure yet again after losing money in the OS fiasco but i am also under no illusions about SL and where it could possibly head in the future, both good and bad. After seeing real and genuine suffering in the world and what man does to each other in the name of belief and principles and i mean not in the news i mean first hand it gives you perspective on things like this, i find it hard to see this as the terrible thing people are saying it is, its a change that we all should be prepared for based on LL past track record and instead of arguing and in fighting we should at least try and work with LL to get the best possible deal for everyone, whilst accepting there will be loses as people leave for their own personal reasons.

But thats just my opinion

do you want me to play wack a mole with that Avi of yours?

or would that be violence?
even if it is a game for children at most carnivals

and if i get sexual gratification out of you playing whack a mole with their av?

I am not trying to judge by prettiness of buildings, and not by what lies behind the concept of Gor.

I am trying to say people should be able to experience visiting such places, without needing to feel they are doing something seedy, by registering as an adult user.

If you have a fantasy realm or realms where people roleplay living in a female dominant society then great, why should mature people be unable to experience such things in a mature sim?

If you are attempting to roleplay living a lifestyle different to the norm is this fantasy to be considered adult rated?

Is this the same as witnessing real life porn or violence, through video or photo?

Personally I don't think it is, I just want to see what the lindens take on it is.

Throughout SL there are a lot of uploaded photos of real life porn or violence, pasted in innappropriate public places where people have no option but to see, when coming accross them, this is the sort of stuff I assumed LL meant when they said they were targeting 2-4% of adult content.

Places filled with this stuff tend to be tacky and look like a bag of s**t.

The only thing that i am in favour of returning to or possibly implementing..is the requirement of leaving a Credit Card or other funding source when opening a SL a/c, it should have stayed that way from the outset (from 2006).....sure the Grid would have been 1/2 as big in terms of both land mass and logins...but it would have prevented the excesses from the FREE accounts like "griefing, creation of the Bot nation, freebie mentality, content theft, easy access for Teens etc etc"

The "Economy" as whole would be in much better shape and more predictable. That's the only predictable experience i want to have in SL.

I don't agree to any segregation of rating systems or Continents.....and if LL go down that route, then LL really don't have any valid argument in not creating a "Gambling Continent" using the same verification methods they intend to use for Adult verification. Servers could be placed in Brighton UK under the umbrella of a subsidiary company "Linden Labs Ltd", which probably already exists if they have employed staff paying UK taxes and incur operational running costs.

i am no payment info on file and not identity verified

i have spent considerably more than $300 in the 18 months i have been in SL

i am a content creator, making camisks and silks for other slavegirls like me, in world and at SL xchange

when i am not in Gor, i cover myself in ordinary clothing

i have never "griefed" anyone and would not know how to go about it even if i wanted to, which i do not

i am adult

i am female

i am playful and harmless

i am kajira, i am sex

i am part of a beautiful community where i feel at home, where i am loved and valued, where i can express my skill with words, where i can be what it is too dangerous to be in the First Life

i will miss SL when the Gorean sim on which i've lived and served the whole time i have been here becomes inaccessible

those on that sim may miss me also, as i serve beautifully and sincerely to the best of my ability, heart and body both

some of you may miss the next $300 i would have spent here had i been able to remain

some of you who despise Gor, as is your right, will miss some of the money i have put into the SL economy

It rarely is as bad as we speculate, but I do think it is often worse than LL would have us believe.

If you can't tell a mole from a ferret you're gonna get bitten.