Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Main Forum Thread

Precisely Blondin - how does one measure effect? In this context, anyone can claim advantage, disadvantage, gain, loss, value, offence, loss, etc. Some effects can be measured (financial gain, number of complaints etc., and can maybe help to establish effect) - some can be managed or controlled by things such as acceptable community standards, expectations and social contracts, but one has to be careful how far you go with this.

If intent is the determination to do something, or rather, the state of mind/attitude with which someone acts (or doesn't act, for that matter), then it can't be proved very easily - only inferred by, for example, evidence. But one can't be sure of someone's intent.

You end up having to think about morality, motive (but that doesn't constitute intent)... plus, things like aesthetics, negligence, etiquette, 'good faith', altruism, innocence, awareness of repercussions, desired outcome, etc. etc.

Looks like you'd have to work out how to identify these things too, as Linden Lab see them, and get them into a manageable and decipherable policy, if LL are going to start defining content in any more detail than they do currently, IMHO.

(Q. "Is this extremely violent content?", A. "Yes it is."... ergo? Who is A? Why is Q asking?).

Often, it seems, on the Internet, the best policy is to keep it simple and short, and maybe cite some references about common sense and good faith, such as:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
http://davidgerard.co.uk/fsckhead.html

Suddenly, the words 'social experiment', 'lab' and 'rats' come to mind, yet again

We await the results. In the meantime, my wheel needs oiling.

(Also - a question - I have a build under construction, which would undoubtedly be classified as extreme and explicit, public 'adult' content - but I'm not currently using any adverts, search listings or classifieds - even the land descriptor is currently blank. Will I be listed for a move to the new continent appropriately?)

*sigh*

So you agree that the "shows up in search" criterion won't work?

(and as for SL speakeasies... I'm more concerned about personal spaces being falsely ARed for being "sneakeasies"

Estate owners with Adult content on their land will be required to flag their content; they will not be required to move.

By "flagging their content" Linden Labs means "the entire estate will need to be flagged adult". The entire estate. Whether they need to physically move their sims is 100% irrelevant.

Gor not adult ?????? Hello it is ok for a FM to take a slave and use her where she stands how ever he sees fit. It is ok for a FM to force collar a unowned slave and use her as he wishes even giving her to friends
A quote from gor since you seem to think it is all rosy
"Anytime, anyplace - when lust strikes a gorean man, a bed is not needed.

Against a wall on a city street
“Cosian ****!” snarled Marcus.
He seized her by the arms and lifted her from her feet, thrusting her back against the wall of the building.
He held her there, off her feet, her back pressed back, hard, against the rough wall.
“Yes,” she cried. “Yes!”
“Be thusly used, and as befits you,” said he, “slave, and **** of Cos!”
“Yes, my Master!” she wept. She clung about him, her eyes closed, her head back, gasping.
So if this is not adult and Ihave seen much like the above happen in gorean sims since i was gorean myself for some time.
In a gor tavern the girls offer more than a drink for their service ( look up stairs at the taverns in gor) Gor is about fighting and killing in battles is this also not what SL wants to hide ?

No I belive wether or not a parcel is in search (the main search not land sales) is what should be used to denote public or private given the tools LL has in place and there for would in theory negate personal attacks if it is defined as not being paid to be but in search therefore private as I say may not be the greatest idea ever but only one I see that would define personal and puplic and I know there are loopholes ie I seperate a 16m parcel in the middle of a sex club and put that in search while leaving the rest of the parcel out so I can say the rest is private and not applicable to sl adult zoning

Honestly I agree that the only viable solution would be the creation of the G continent but LL seems bent on ignoring that whole thing

Except that LL has put the tools in place to put personal (not private, there's no private spaces on the mainland) places in search, therefore search does not distinguish public from personal.

Even if they changed search the way you suggest, 100% of the parcels currently listed as residences in search are not there because they're adult clubs, because there's currently no reason to misidentify a club as a home. And reclassifying them as rentals seems unreasonable, but so does expecting people who are using search for rental properties to be aware they need to change to a new rental search setting.

And when it's all done, you won't have solved the problem.

I mean, yes, it's a cool idea, I just don't think it's workable.

Holy smokes! Punctuation is your friend!

With that said, a brilliant solution for those who want to keep sex rooms on the mainland. That's not a loophole; that's an exploit, and I'm sure plenty of folk will advertise clubs in search that have a (wink wink nudge nudge) "private" sex room next door. Very difficult to prosecute; or everyone who's living next door to a club would be suspect.

The question arised by LL's announcement is not how do we solve mingleing of adult and non they have already decided their 'solution' but in doing this they've raised a lot of things I don't think they realized they would and most important I think is not what is adult or not but what is private or not I myself have a 'sl divorce' 'office' I make no sales or really have a buissnes since it's all just a lark and wouldn't charge anyone any way and in this 'office' are toys for my dun but I consider my land public because I'm in search and on top of that have no ban lines and I think sl would be destroyed if ban line negaite public and private and if their disicion is this adult land then go ahead and move me there as long as I get a comperable plot and we aren't second class citizens as I say the g land is the real solution but ignore it they will and have been

My apologies all this is from my phone so please excuse spelling errors and puncuation

What if an announcement was made that the category was for rentals? After 30 days, it would be assumed anyone in that category was a rental residence and allow for ARs if they are not being used as such. Of course, then we are back to 'what is a residence'? Mixed use parcels (like a skybox) further complicate things.

Lindens: Any guidance? Clearly denoting private from public is a huge thing that needs to be defined.

Maybe because you have taken the time and effort to make sure that the land around the exterior of your home is a beautiful place that others may enjoy freely, even though that does NOT mean they are welcome to enter your home, walk several levels down into the basement, and play with your sex bed in your private bedroom? Or maybe the ground level is a public garden, and your private residence is in the same parcel in a skybox?

It's ok, I agree with you on these points... I think it would really be easier for LL to just make the new continent rated G, but that's not my decision. I'm just mulling over the best way to proceed with my business, in the wake of all these changes. I sell adult products, and it appears that I'll have to adapt, change, cheat, or die. At least we've got a heads up on this.

I'm on my phone too...

And would you then have to put a security system in place for your skybox to make it private? And how will this be policed? All in all good points I belive LL already has some definition of public/private or how else do they come up with this 2-4%

It was your example. I just blew it up as your retraction agrees.

I guess you didn't read my next post with my suggestions to the lindens. Feel free to go back and look at it.

Maybe if you considered women's clothing choices beyond your own masturbatory desires you wouldn't make posts that become the subject of such derision.

Patasha

I'm not sure what difference it makes whether they're "rental residence" or "I put my home in search because residence was an option".

Oh yes. Personally I think "living above the shop" is a bad idea in SL for a bunch of reasons, but a lot of people do it. What if you've got a store selling houseplants and you've got a sex bed in your home 3000 meters above it?

I think some have missed the point here - LL have decided that they are going to split Adult content from Mature. They have asked us how to do this best.

Arguments of the fora about whether it's a good idea or not, or whether a Disney continent would be a better solution aren't going to find much resonance with LL - it seems they have already decided (after much, or little, consideration). They obviously have their reasons for doing it - strong reasons, because in the short term I think they actually stand to lose money from this, due to lost business by the very lucrative adult community and the disruption of it. My guess is that their backers are insisting on it and that LL are concerned that they may lose their backing. That would be a prime motivator, because without the backers, I think SL would collapse.

If that is the reason, then it's the backers that are going to have the final say on what "adult" is. From what little I know, they aren't giving any direction, they're just going to tell LL when it's "good enough" or not. Comparisons with what is done in other societies, or even in the US, aren't relevant - this is a society separate from any nation, and LL can make the laws whatever it wishes. Those may well be biased by whatever the backers want, of course - they have to be.

Rights? We don't HAVE any fundamental rights. We have the rights and privileges that LL choose to give us. Period. This is their world and they are the dictators. There is no appeals court. If we don't like it we have to leave - that is the only true way that we can make our voice heard with LL in a way they they MUST listen to.

I really feel that the Adult separation is a fait accompli and no amount of debate is going to change LL's mind. What's left is only to try to decide whether we still want to live in a world like this (and for that, ask yourself if SL had been like this from the start, would you still have joined?) and how to influence the transition to make it have the minimum negative impact on us all.

I think that it would be in LL's best interests to canvas all residents with a log-in poll (which we know they can do) to really find out what impact it's going to have - using the Forums to get a cross-section of the populous is faulty sampling at best.

And I still would like a state of the union from LL... it's been a while since they initially announced - where are they at in their process?

You missed a critical point in the snipped you quoted:
Most Private Islands are mixed use. Thus LL action would REQUIRE them to choose either XXX or a watered-down Mature for flagging ALL content in their Estate. Not parcel by parcel, not necessarily even sim by sim. Most of the larger collections of sims owned by a single individual are set up as a single Estate, like Dreamland. If Ansche hasn't already dumped all her sims and cashed out by then, she would have to classify ALL of Dreamland, hundreds of sims, as either all XXX Adult, or all "Absolutely NO XXX Adult Activity Allowed". What sort of disasder do you think that will be for a land baron who makes their money by renting out parcels in mixed use sims? Who can afford to tell a large portion of their residents that they have to pack up and move out?

F*** no. Security systems are evil.

Couldn't right now, even if I wanted to, because LL flat *refuses* to allow LSL checks so that a scripted item can check for age verification status. Which means I can't have a security system that will auto-eject and ban any individual who is not a "verified adult".

Well, if you list your home in search you are paying L$ to do so. Maybe telling people not to do that would be a gentle way of reminding them about that fact.



It does help your store's traffic.

It's only 10% of your weekly stipend, so most people see that as "free".

As my RL mate has repeatedly stated, this whole thing would be a non-issue if walls and doors actually prevented people from entering or seeing what was on the other side. But LL refuses to try to implement any of the privacy suggestions that residents have requested.

In my opinion, if the actual GOAL here is to isolate all "Adult Content" so there are one or more continents that are strictly "XXX Adult, anything goes" and the rest is strictly "PG-only, as far as the eye can see", then the ONLY way to do that is to create one or more PG-Only contiennts, and allow those who wish a PG-Only second life to VOLUNTARILY move there, at no relocation cost. The Adult Content is FAR too pervasive now to surgicly remove it, and for those many residents who accept that XXX content is a part of how SL is, they don't mind that. The only people that CARE if they see someone else's XXX stuff are those who want a PG-Only experience. So give THEM that choice, and leave the rest of your customers alone.

As someone who does occasionally use XXX content, I would be perfectly happy to avoid going to a designated "PG-Only" continent unless I was in my Sunday Best go-to-church clothes and wearing no questionable atachments. In RL I don't walk into a Catholic Church dressed in a Fursuit and hauling a naked slave on a chain collar behind me. I don't walk into a Corporate business meeting dressed like I am ready to step on stage in a strip club and start dancing. So why would I appear in a PG-Only continent as a furry with a slave on a leash following me around?

The majority of SL is MIXED USE. That is how Linden Lab developed it, with PG sims freely intermixed with Mature Sims. You can't successfully change that now, any more than you can mix a bag of salt and a bag of sugar and hope to ever seperate them again. But you CAN create NEW continents that are squeaky-clean, or XXX filthy, or XXX Violent, if you want a "pure" experience somewhere.

I think that's what a lot of use are trying to get LL to see. That unlike their decisions that were poorly thought out and implemented (banking, gambling, broadly offensive) when there was no viable alternative.. Now there is a growing if ugly option to SL in OpenSim. OpenSim will never 'be' SL, open source in this context will alway be less focused and will suffer from dilluted resources. But it is there in whatever way it can be. And people are starting to populate some of the presistant worlds. It's geeky fun at the moment, bug hutting, modding the code to try for stability... but if we want to keep SL viable, we have to make LL see that they now have to consider not just "well if we do X, people who really want to exist virtually will just have to suck it up and deal" and realize that "well if we do X, what percentage of our population is going to flip us the bird and jump to the wacky world of OS." I hope they do starting worrying about competiton, because I love SL with all the mess and drama and bad behavior. If I wanted to experience bland normalacy I wouldn't log on to SL, I would go to the mall.

Patasha

This is important though. Once again the community as whole is being forced to bear the burden of LL's inability to enforce the guidelines they have set down, whether through apathy or incomoetence. Reliably enforced and perhpas tweaked slightly, those already existing rules would take care of most of the issues we are discussing here.