Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Main Forum Thread

LL was a task force member (and sponsor) of the Berkman Internet Safety Technical Task Force run by the Berkman Centre for Internet and Society at Harvard University.

In December 08 it produced it's final report : "Enhancing Child Safety and Online Technologies" Final Report of the Internet Safety Technical Task Force to the Multi-State Working Group on Social Networking of State Attorneys General of the United States

Its remit was to "The Internet Safety Technical Task Force was created in February 2008 in accordance with the Joint Statement on Key Principles of Social Networking Safety announced in January 2008 by the Attorneys General Multi-State Working Group on Social Networking and MySpace. The scope of the Task Force's inquiry was to consider those technologies that industry and end users - including parents - can use to help keep minors safer on the Internet. "

http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/pubrelease/isttf/

Which was accepted by 48 (I think, do you think I can find the reference??) out of the 52 Attorneys General.

*This* is the reason why we are going through this. There is no way that LL can shy away from implementing these.

Unfortunately I smell vested interests all the way through this report. But that is to be expected.

I do believe that LL do have an aim of merging the grids but even if they don't (an let's face it they'll do their damnedest to try to make it work, purely as a cost cutting exercise) they still need to demonstrate that they are trying to protect those little darlings that get in when they shouldn't anyway.

In the end, this will happen whether we like it or not. The grace and goodwill with which LL handle it will determine the outcome - and we've seen their track record on that rofl.

The bottom line is we're in for the high jump. There's nothing we can do because we're completely at the mercy of LL and they really don't give a shit about us. I find it highly unlikely that there will be more than a token lip service to the logistics and aggravation the move will cause and they don't care about whether or not we lose income.

They may like to trumpet how much their USD turnover is each day but we are all well aware they do nothing to support us in this at the best of times.

No amount of whining on our part is going to change this. LL moving their servers and company off shore would, but that's not going to happen.

We really need to start to focus on the logistics of the move. That is probably the only place where will will get LL to actually change their position and potentially provide more support than..

"there's the adult continent, yes the land is overpriced because of speculators and good luck with your move. You've got a week."
"Oh and we'll hit you for more tier if you don't give rid of that mainland you have first" "What do you mean the bottoms fallen out of the mainland prices you cant sell it? Then go up a tier, you can't keep your shop there anymore"

Suddenly the kerching! sounds are deafening me...

Links:
Berkman report executive summary: http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/sites/cyber.law.harvard.edu/files/ISTTF_Final_Report-Executive_Summary.pdf

here is Aristotles submission to committee http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/sites/cyber.law.harvard.edu/files/Aristotle_ISTTFTAB_submission.pdf It is interesting primarily because of the detail of how the verification is undertaken

and for a little trip down memory lane, here's a suggestion of how it could have been handled before the vested interests decided there was money to be made..

http://thegridlive.com/2007/11/01/agelock-an-alternative-identity-verification-plan-for-second-life/

The references to Microsoft and the NYT refusing to allow their data to be transferred to Aristotle is revealing of the lack of trust these two corporations have in Aristotle’s integrity (ethics rather than the software)

So, can we stop being sidetracked by things we can't change and talk about what we expect LL to do to facilitate the smooth transfer to the ghetto?

**edited to add* BTW LL, your PR is crap. you could have managed this a lot better if you actually had people on your payroll who know what they're doing..

Yes, I understand LL has to do *something*, but the current proposal not only appears to be p*ssing off 99.9% of respondents here but will do absolutely nothing to prevent unverified accounts from accessing Adult content. It will still be there on the Mature mainland, in "private" (haha) residences and tucked away behind PG content in business venues. And this is just the stuff they are saying will still be allowed. Add in all the hidden members only groups and venues that will undoubtedly spring up and it seems like a huge upheaval for zero effect.

Something like agelock would have worked at least as well as the current verification proposals.

Thanks for posting this and for the references therein. I to hope that LL does make this move as smooth as possible but as always we shall see Maybe this post will help towards those that are baulking the change as you rightly say, if this is the reason for the move and it would seem that it is then we should work with rather than against LL to make the transition as smooth as possible for all concerned.

Reminds me of the serenity prayer:

Grant me the serenity to accept the things i cannot change
Courage to change the things i can and the wisdom to know the difference

Thanks for the post

I keep thinking about this statement...

1. Yes, there are Residents who have issues with experiencing 'adult content' in SL - the type who feel that it's almost everywhere (in Mature) and have either fled SL already and have left LL with a "Reason Why I Left" note, or remain, but have slowly become less and less tolerant of what *may well be* an eyesore or imposition on their SL experience (or not, again, this is completely subjective and I doubt trying to define it will help). I doubt any policy except removing all said content from SL will suffice, for those who do not wish to see it in SL at all (and herein the slippery slope - what next, men kissing, furries partnering human avatars?) - in which case SL will become, temporarily, just a sanitised 'Disneyland' - or at least the Mature zone will. None of the changes solve the issue of ugly builds (again, subjective) - one is as likely to be unhappy with something 'non-adult' in theme, as 'adult', being built next door. That leaves those who don't mind it being in SL, but don't want to see it (or as much of it) near their land or while they explore - ok, how many is that?

2. Those that 'stumble' upon adult content in Mature. If PG land was properly enforced and if search was fixed so that it didn't include Mature parcels and/or the small number of landowners with adult content were made to mark their land as Mature/Adult in the About Land box, as is currently possible - then no-one would stumble across adult content (hardly) via teleport, it just wouldn't show up if you searched with 'Include mature...' unticked. Yes, there may well be a significant number of folk who fly/walk/parachute around SL - but I can't believe anything other than a few have ever complained about the content they stumble across, certainly not enough to inform a major policy change like this. Without hard data the 'stumble-issue' is highly questionable.

3. Numerous requests from the education sector? Think about it.. how many requests would that be *even* if a significant number of colleges and universities did have a problem with adult content?

4. Numerous requests from worried parents with children illegally accessing the adult only version of SL? Reassurance via inadequate age verification? Laughable.

5. Requests from (non adult entertainment) RL businesses? They might make a lot of noise in the press and on their interwebby blog things, but hardly any have computers powerful enough to run SL. Again, maybe like the education sector, they just don't want to be associated with adult content in the media. We know they want sealed off private estates/islands etc. for meetings etc., how many of them really have an interest in committing RL resources (i.e. staffing) to a presence in the public SL? Their interactive customer HQ's in SL will be manned once a month by a junior techy on work experience. Again, where are the stats on this? Most of what I've read is about reliability of the technology, not the content.

6. Requests from bigots, puritans, prudes, hoaxers and/or the mentally ill? We're all doomed if you're listening to them all of a sudden.

So, please... hard data on 'numerous requests'... your customers might take you a bit more seriously if you produce it.

Why not just build a non-adult continent as monitor voluntary Resident movement? It's a lot cheaper and will cause hardly any headaches. Oh wait, shouldn't PG land be that already? What went wrong?

ps. If some sort of age verification does get implemented that requires me to provide personal details or credit card info on the Net, it's goodbye SL. I'll find somewhere else to enjoy myself that doesn't seek to impose standards on me that I don't agree with.[/QUOTE]

Have you ever purchased anything that was "Adult" you have to show ID to purchase it.. Some Corner markets can now scan drivers lic for ciggarettes. i have no problem with age verification, i have done it myself.

As to the definition of "Adult"
According to Merriam-Webster:
Adult
Pronunciation: \ə-ˈdəlt, ˈa-ˌdəlt\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin adultus, past participle of adolescere to grow up, from ad- + -olescere (from alescere to grow) — more at old
Date: 1531
1 : fully developed and MATURE : grown-up
2 : of, relating to, intended for, or befitting adults <an adult approach to a problem>
3 : dealing in or with explicitly sexual material <adult bookstores> <adult movies>

Did you notice that key word there? MATURE. As in MATURE sims. This change is nothing more than descrimination against anyone who has a fetish or kink.... hmmm... just like in RL where its taboo to talk about.

Interesting info Couldbe - yes it does look like a 'done deal', well before LL decided to consult it's customers (in which case the person responsible for the 'numerous requests' statement needs to be summarily outed as a liar, IMHO).



In which case I personally don't want to be around - or in any way connected with SL - when the lawsuits start flying around after the first minor is raped or killed after interaction with a predator in SL where LL either knowingly allows minors in or the 'blame' could be passed on to the individual where said interaction was courted (i.e. location of grooming). Even if they really have no intention of introducing minors, then keen-eyed lawyers will go after the next culpable, possibly responsible adult - and with identity verification, they'll go for anyone vaguely connected. I suppose that could as easily happen now, considering... but in a weird way I'm more reassured by LL having some role to play as a liable medium.

/me starts thinking about the legal perspective for adult content creators/providers re. blameworthiness, if LL are able to demonstrate 'they' did everything they could to prevent any incident. Who then acted intentionally, knowingly, recklessly or negligently? The traceable onlookers/club owner/skin maker? This is a huge hornet's nest.



Maybe some of us prefer a rough, legs-and-arms-kicking attempt to make us move before we leave?

At least then, if some tragedy did happen, the user base can claim it tried to prevent a change that may have led to the event - rather than being complicit.

I've looked into this and I'm very disturbed that it cost £4.95 a month as a service. so what would this do for me, I see it as forcing an already disadvantaged individual into becoming more disadvantaged because LL can't produce a working method of age verification. I see a fair few post waving PIOF as some magic wand towards age verification, but it's not. Those that are following the whole threads will know that plenty of Americans can archive this at 13 (legally).. and I could even age verify my cat via mycashplus who certainly isn't 18 (admittedly fraudulently).

As for how important is it ? well that all depends on LL doesn't it. It's also apparent that some people on this thread think that Non verified accounts are some kind of second class SL resident, I'll have you know that I provide a service, people have to input $l to afford my service, and I'm fully paid up 6 months rent on my Island and I also run a weekly advertisement (Instead of advertising in my picks). So I contribute and pay my share even though I don't have PIOF. If I did Id certainly be emptying $l's into my bank account instead of amassing toys and tipping $l to worthy builds and artist.

For reference, for folk having a hard time finding the LL statement...

Linden Lab's statement to the Internet Safety Technical Task Force's 'Enhancing Child Safety and Online Technologies' final report

(Appendix F: Statements from Members of the Task Force)

You only have to pay it for one month.

Either that...or ask the Adult rated resident to change content or leave the SIM in order to protect the Mature rating

Well i didn't say it would be for everyone, i suppose for me its how much people want to continue to play here and access the adult areas and how much that is worth to them as an individual as everybody here is different and with different circumstances, however if someone can afford an internet connection i am sure the equivalent of 16 pence a day would be affordable. But hey it was just a suggestion for those that maybe want the alternative

As you can see from various posts its a done deal almost and "Couldbe Yue" posted an interesting post a couple posts up the page, which is probably the real reason behind this all. I think after allowing unverified accounts on the grid it has at last caught up with LL and bit them on the arse as many said when they opened the gates to unverified accounts without thinking it through, but thats a LL trait you will see more and more.

I agree PIOF is not the best verification system in the world as even that card allows 13 yo's to have one with a parents signature, however LL has got to be seen to doing something, maybe they will insist everyone uses the Age verification system instead if enough complain that PIOF is no good ( which i might add we use and all the alts and have never had any issues with it to date ), just as a side note i have a UK passport but live in Holland after leaving the UK and i had to put a UK address in there for it to recognize me so gave it an old address and was verified with no problems, so imo its only checking that my passport number is valid just as they do in the banks and building societies and many other agencies you have to present a passport to for proof of ID.

I don't think there is any easy answer to all of this and yes LL will lose business etc. etc. but i don't think in their long term plans it matters a lot to them because there will always be new blood to take peoples places, which is a shame as i have seen some great people leave over the years because of stunts like this.

The most important thing though imo is how can we work with LL to minimize disruption and help shape perhaps the details of this move and change.

Just my personal opinion though

True. Better to make the estate "Adult" if your renting it out for personal or commercial use. IMO as we the estate owners will ultimately be responsible for the content on our estates.



I answered above to part of your post above see Samatha
Island/Estate sims can ban together at anytime. I agree they should have the option of moving closer to Ursula.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What we are seeing is the Zoning of SL. LL most recently tried their hand at zoning residential when they created Bay City. (they created other residential communities in the past; just not on that scale). Now they have moved onto zoning Adult. They want to know what our opinion of "Adult" is. Sorry if anyone finds this offensive; but that is what LL is asking for.

-Overtly sexual ads that include but are not limited to rl cum shots, intercourse, rape, sodomy, suicide, gang violence, child abuse; sexual or not. Animal cruelty. Hard core Pornography. sex-related merchandising. Strip and sex clubs. Sexually focused groups; example; Gorean, orgy, rape role play.

So... what's the big deal, then? About the most prospective thing in that excerpt is:
Well, duh! The old IDV-based parcel restriction was hopelessly b0rked--they could hardly fail to "make wider use" of it, by maybe fixing it and then announcing "it's not so much in beta anymore trust us this time it mostly works now we kinda mean it."

Many constructive suggestions in these threads have assumed some form of age verification, without resorting to continental- / Estate-level restrictions. Indeed, when the failed IDV experiment was underway, LL was repeatedly advised that they needed to enforce the parcel level content restrictions by server-side suppression of content downloads, so they've *known* the right solution to this problem for many months.

That LL chose the current brain-damaged approach was in no way determined by their commitment to an age-safe environment. I suspect the motivation is to have another batch of themed Mainland to auction-off.

Right, all we can do is politely request someone stop whatever activity. The most we can do is file an AR. Not only do we not have authority, we can not even *act* like we have it.

Which is why I burned out on infohubs fast and stick to the help islands now.

Good summation of all the problem points...and there are probably more that we haven't even figured out until the policy goes through.

Re. LL being seen to be protecting minors

Maybe I'm way off - but...thinking about the child safety element (whether LL are planning introducing minors or not, but acknowledge that they are here anyway, as we probably all do) - *IF* the end result is to have an adult population 'verified', so they can access restricted adult content (which may well happen), and they still allow unverified accounts in SL generally, won't that result in an easier target for predators than we currently have, where at least they have no idea whether someone is a minor due to the cloak of all the adults with NPIOF status?

I would have thought it'll be a predator's field day after implementation because they can just groom Residents in PG and Mature (they're not going to be interested in the adult continent much) with NPIOF accounts (if the verification system works even half as well as planned) with a much higher chance of meeting their desired prey?

Doesn't anonymity amongst a large adult population which is also unverified also, in a way, protect minors, if they choose to work their way into SL?

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.

-Bob Dylan

It seems LL sends out conflicting messages....on the one hand it talks about Teens sneaking in.....and on the other you have Phillip Linden's vision of wanting to merge the 2 grids at some point in time!!

For PR reasons they introduced Free accounts to boost their online figures, to the point that most current accounts are probably Free without Payment on file,
hence why it is easy for Teens to sneak in! The problem is really of LL's own making!

On a personal level i would prefer to register my Credit Card or Paypal a/c then go through the Aristotle system......the majority of us have made Internet purchase at one time or another which requires submitting payment details.
You don't even need an Aristotle verification system


Let' say the motive right now is to reduce Teens on the main grid, then i feel LL could adopt a different method of verifying.... one which is far effective than the one we have now.

LL should adopt a process similar to that what Paypal had.
If you open an SL Account you have to provide a funding source (i.e Credit card or Bank a/c)...this account is debited 2 x 1 USD amounts which is credited to your LL USD account. You need the 2 digit figures appearing on your statement (either RL paper statement or online statment) to verify and activate your Payment on file status. It's the final step! LL could further tighten this process by name this charge - "Linden Labs - Second Life Adult Verification fees" "83" - 1 USD

What this process does, is to create additional hoops for a would-be Teenager trying to verify to Adult status.
- They would need to obtain their Parent's Bank or credit card details
- They would need to authorise those 2 debit charges of 1 USD each
- they would need to somehow need to obtain their Parent's statement in order
to find that 2 digit authorisation code (e.g the "83" above)

For the parents it wouldn't be simply be having their details to verify and a/c
and never being used again
- The Parent gets visibility of the Second Life charges on their Statements
as it's clearly marked with the words "Adult Verification fees"


Now this won't stop all Teenagers, especialy the ones that have the blessing of their Parents to be in Second Life.....but it sure would stop a significant percentage going through 3 steps instead of 1 with the possibility of getting caught too.

For this work however, the Free Accounts would have to be a thing of the past
and we would need to return to the old ways when everyone had to place a funding source. It wouldn't solve the "Puritan"avatar problem but it might tackle the "Teens on Grid" problem.

I think that MOST of us that are reading this "forum" are doing our best to MAKE A DIFFERENCE! By making an effort to keep up with this TRAVESTY, we are expending who knows HOW many man hours doing research (POST # 1114 - /me APPLAUDS) for and ON a company that CLEARLY does not have our best interests at heart. Sadly we ARE to them little green dots on a map...JUST little green dots NOT people.

Many MANY of the little green dots don't quite grasp the SCALE of this "slippery slope" and frankly at this point this "forum" wouldn't help them.

I am NOT a little green dot. I have found community here. I would like to DEFEND my community to the extent that I can!

QUITE frankly THIS is NOT the time to bend over and let someone violate me OR my community.

If , when the bodies are tallied we have not made a difference, I will accept this as one of those things that I could not change. But really... is this a time where you will watch your neighbors just 'disappear' ?
And for those of you that DO wish that they would, what have you DONE to make your situation better? I've done MUCH exploring... and sadly I think the ones that DO wish the neighbors to disappear are the ones that build megaprim cubes around the property in addition to those annoying red lines... those people that DON'T talk to their neighbors to see if a solution could be found. "It not ME...its THEM."

So ... To drive the point.... THIS time its THEM.... Will NEXT TIME be YOU?
(OH and IS this time YOU? STill NO word on what "Adult" MEANS!)

Which makes this, "Thus, we provide at no charge an age
verification solution (through Aristotle) for all “landowners” to whom we lease Second Life" an interesting statement.

I have to fully agree, this thread should be locked for our own sanity. It's become pointless as no new ideas are being put forward, just echo's ... a bit like this post here is !

Oh, it's bound to be locked on Monday morning so that they can 'read' the posts (like none of them ever go inworld at a weekend - lol). Then another thread will be re-opened a day or so later and we can fill that one up to, until we're all too tired and go calmly like lambs to the...

Why didn't Linden Lab just announce, 'Sorry, we're going to have to insist now on age verification cos of this internet task force thing about kid safety' - why the geographical separation to destabilise things at the same time?

Age verification: Just do it, if you're gonna do it, but insist that it's for everyone
Geographical separation: ...is a slippery slope
Search: Sort out the inconsistencies in the platform

This would be financial suicide if the EstateOwner flagged a SIM Adult and you run a PG or Mature business.....your model assumes 100% of the current user base would verify and thus there would be no shrinkage to potential pool of customers. We all know that won't happen....not even close!




Transferring SIMs if you are an Estate SIM, costs 100 USD per sim to reposition on the Grid. It comes down to whether LL would be prepared to waiver these fees

Why? That statement doesn't say anything about whether someone might have to pay to get PIOF (which isn't age verification, in any case). They DON'T charge landowners anything to limit access to their parcels. And that's a good thing, considering how useless that access control is.

Yes we are a cash cow to LL as there is nothing like SL out there at the moment and they know they will lose some but they also know new folks will join, long gone is the LL i remember when you could talk often with a Linden, when there was a problem it was sorted fast and you met the lindens who had time to talk to you and used to hang out at the WA's, when you filed an AR a Linden was there always fast lol Times change, the games change and we are going yet again into another phase of LL madness and maybe if you and SL are here in a couple of years time with another big gaffe you will understand more that LL doesn't care generally about the players and will do what they want with SL as we ALL AGREED they could when we started.



Many of us have found a community here and i have a lot of friends here that i speak with on the fone and have met in RL, in fact i met my now RL wife here. Its not about all this its about the fact that LL can and will (as proven in the past) do exactly what they want with SL as we all agreed they could when we joined this great place as i have said. This is just another part of a history of SL disasters, yet its still standing and we still play.



We are one of those affected and we will have to give our mainland sim up and move to the new world. We have great neighbors well one anyway and this will cause problems all over the grid but after a while seeing the stunts that LL pulls you realize that shouting and pulling out of the hair won't affect the decision one bit as you get used to the way LL writes and talks about these changes and you will see that its a done deal.



Fact is they have a TOS which we all signed and agreed to when we started and if people feel that aggrieved then take LL to court and contest what they are doing, just as people threatened to do when the OS problem started and yes we also lost money there as well.

This problem would not be as bad today if LL had never taken PIOF required away when they created the non verified accounts and opened the floodgates in 2006, people should have always been required to verify themselves when joining and they always should have had an adult continent from the beginning and then no one would have been under any illusions from the start. All this is as i stated in another post is as helpful as shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted but LL don't forward plan very well with the customers in mind.

Just because i will work with LL to ease our transition to the new adult land doesn't mean i don't care or i like losing money, but there again i never play with money here that i can't afford to lose tomorrow and all those friends here i have i know i will remain in contact with even if LL folded today.

Peace